St Andrews or Bristol?

[Happydaughterhappymum]

It’s for History- both offers are AAA.
St A is higher in the league tables but not a Russell group Uni. Bristol is much lower but will it matter in 3 years’ time- they may have swapped positions by then anyway.
DD is vacillating. She has been to both cities but not on an official open day.
Which will employers prefer assuming she gets the same class. Does the MA carry any extra weight.

She keeps asking me my opinion as she can’t decide!

Enyap my DD is in New Bridewell in centre. She is in a really quiet flat but other flats are more of a party pad. She goes out a bit but not much clubbing as she doesn't like spending money. (No idea where she gets this from). She has come across weed and drinking but nothing that she can't stay away from. She is loving Bristol.

I would echo what Xenia says about Wills. My DD was there too. It is favoured by ex boarding school pupils in the old quad because it’s very old fashioned and cheap! No en-suites and mod cons. If your DC needs this, don’t go there. It’s basic. You would be surprised that many DC who go there are quite frugal. Yes there’s some going out into Bristol but there are formals in hall and socialising in the rooms. Also at other halls. The newer part of Wills is different but possibly attracts a broader selection of students as it’s not as dated.

There really is no such thing as a university without drugs. There just isn’t. You have to trust your DC to be sensible.

The stories on here are not normal for the halls. The vast majority of students are straightforward decent people. There are options to move within the accommodation if a room becomes available but Bristol has been tight on accommodation for years so there can be a wait. It would be extraordinarily bad luck to have 100% awful flatmates.

Different year groups bring different students. Who is there now won’t be there in the future so everywhere is pot luck. DD shared with a vet student and no one saw her. She was Skyping all night and at lectures all day. She joined the Chinese society so that was her thing. There are all sorts of patterns of behaviour. To expect everyone to be quiet isn’t going to happen. I’m not sure if they have quiet corridors these days though. You could ask.

There are several faculties that have balls. You just buy tickets. DD was Chair of her ball committee. The union was a bit quiet at Bristol. DD and friends never went there. Like all universities you have to find your feet.

A friend’s DS is at Sheffield and his first year flat had a drinking culture. He loved it. A girl didn’t and left. Another year might be completely different. There is a decent chance that DC are happy at any university accommodation but I don’t think any university can rule out bad behaviour.

Although BB my son said at Wills they were making huge efforts to make it more mixed. I think in his section of 9 boys 3 went to private schools and most of those like my son were day schools so that is 6 from state schools which presumably includes state grammars, if I have remembered that correctly - that was last year in just one block. I don't have more general statistics.

(My daughter years before was in the newer bit of Wills. I prefer the old quad bit where my son was with huge rooms. I suspect they put 9 boys in his bit as on his floor there was one bath, no shower, between 3 so he had to go to another floor for a shower but that was not a big problem)

One of my dds is on a mixed floor in Wills Hall and loves it. She has made some very good friends from a mixed range of backgrounds and her friendship group is not druggy at all.

zzz, my son's little section (9 boys) lasgt year was all boys in the sense that you opened one door at ground level on the quad and there were about 3 bedrooms on each floor going up to the top floor (4th) where my son was. I presume in each little section in that old bit they put single sex particuarly as they might be going down a floor to use a shower.

It’s a long walk to some parts of the university, not just 10 mins. It may be pretty around the area but in the dark evenings it is not a nice walk through an isolated park. Cycling in Bristol is not easy due the traffic and hills.

The distance isn’t the only problem effectively SB is a student area plonked in a residential suburb with no easy access to facilities like shops/bars/cafes. There are no central student facilities near the SB halls like a Students Union nearby (nor is the DU anywhere near the main uni buildings!). So once you are in the hall, that’s it. You have a bar and if no one uses it, then the social life is very limited. She signed up to a number of clubs and societies, half of which never seemed to happen or meet sporadically. The course society seems virtually inactive. The sport she plays has a reputation at the uni for humiliating student initiations (which her friend found to be true) so wouldn’t join the sports club.

That’s why my DC finds Bristol so isolating. It’s just such a contrast to the experience of my DS at his uni.

@Watchingblueplanet I feel sorry that your dd is not having an enjoyable time at SB.

As mentioned previously both my dds are at SB and are having a great time. There is a free bus into town from SB and at night they either get the bus, walk in groups or if they are on their own very late, will get an Uber. Dd’s cousin is also at SB and she found it very hard to settle in and had to move from Hiatt Baker, so I do appreciate that SB is not for everyone.

My son was all right at SB, but it wasn't brilliant. He/we didn't know that catered meals would clash with the societies he ended up doing nor that late meals had to be signed for on the day, so that if you were stuck in town between a class and a society there wasn't time to come back and eat or sign in for later. It took about 40 minutes for him to walk to his classes. And the bus was often late or too full for everyone to get on. And the halls (Hiatt Baker) stank of weed.

He loves Bristol by the way, loves the city, has made great friends and is very active in what he wants to do. He uses the SU quite a lot this year as he performs there and it seems to be a good meeting place for his groups.

I don’t think any of DDs friends walked to the faculties. They never got up early enough! They all got the bus. They are told not to walk about at night alone. They always got a taxi back from a late night. There seems to be a very odd sports bar to transport and safety from some posters.

I really do not understand why anyone would be in SB if they didn’t like the feel of it. It is clear it’s not at the university or in central Bristol. If students want a campus university, choose one. There are umpteen shops and cafes near the university and that’s where that activity takes place. There are many who are happy with this arrangement.

Yes, there are girls and boys sections in the old quad of Wills. I think there were 6/7 girls in DDs section. Who uses what facilities in hall , goes for meals and uses a bar varies every year. DD always liked quiz nights. No two cohorts will be the same. None of DDs friends went home at weekends. Others may find that their flat mates do.

Catered really helps if you don’t want to have to think about food. That’s a personal choice. All the students miss meals occasionally but if you are totally into sport and societies where missing meals is constant, it makes sense not to go catered. DD didn’t really care about missing the odd meal and sorted herself out at lunchtime and brought instant food for the evening to prep herself, eg salads, soup, microwave lasagne etc. It just takes a bit of planning.

So Hiatt Baker is still a bit shite then? In a different way!

DD went self catered, she much preferred it when she was in halls as she likes flexibility. She always walked to the faculties and still does even though she has a car at university with her, she walks back with a flatmate or gets a taxi if it's dark - at least that is what she tells me.

I have no idea why University discussions end up like pub debates about football. You support Bristol so run down Hull, etc. I have decided that for MN purposes I am Millwall. No one likes me, but I don't care.

More seriously I would prefer if we could simply share our own individual knowledge/experiences and let OPs make up their own minds. Not least I get the sense that confrontational posting has had the effect of chasing some very knowledgeable and interesting academics away.

A few points re Bristol:

1. Stokie B is some distance from the University. It is across the Downs where students are told not to walk across in the dark, and the hill precludes all but the keenest from cycling. Some students do use taxis, but for the less well off these quickly eat into your loan. There are no supermarkets nearby, so if a flatmate or their guests, raid the fridge when they come in, you have no milk for breakfast or you lose the packed lunch you made to take to next days placement. (And getting to a placement when you have to first take a bus to the city centre and then a once an hour rural bus out, is a complete pain.)

1. The Student Union building is about 10 minutes walk into Clifton from the University. No one seems to use it other than actors and politicos, and the politicos seem to be set on pursing their individual identity politics rather than aim to represent the student body as a whole. (There was real disappointment at SU support for withdrawing wardens and senior residents from halls, the residents retained reversed following student demonstrations, and their support for the University spending over three times the annual welfare budget to create "gender neutral" toilets.) This is very different to the LSE where my son went. Everything happened in the same place, so you went in for a lecture, then perhaps caught up with friends over a coffee or in the pub (there was one particularly brutal two hour morning maths lecture that caused them all to head for the pub together.) Then library, and society or guest lecture and then cheap noodles as a group in China Town. DD joined four or five societies in his first year, and held positions in three in his second, even though he is not a natural joiner.

In short, other than sports (which is close to SB) and perhaps a small number of other societies, there is not an obvious meeting point. (Unless you call hanging out in the Wetherspoons where your friend works is student life.) I find it odd that regular posters rave about the Bristol social life and then run London down, when our experience was so very different.

1. Student flats can be large, and some have very little communal living room space. My observation was that they varied according to the alpha personality. So some were dominated by a clean freak, and there was little tolerance for antisocial behaviour. Whereas in others , if you did not party you were boring. DDs closest friend switched from a party flat quite early on, to a lovely flat - indeed they will be sharing again in their third year. Experience is individual. The people I would worry about were those who were overwhelmed at being away from home, and who succumbed to peer pressure simply to stay in with their flat.

1. There is little or no supervision. From this year wardens are gone. Security do not have a remit to be pro-active - or they have all gone nose-blind. One good thing to come out of the year is that DD loathes the smell of weed, every bit as much as some hate cigarette smells.

1. Pastoral care in the University is not great. A number of subjects do not seem to have personal tutors. It was certainly possible for nothing to happen for several months when students (who were on different courses) stopped attending. (One was on a contextual offer and from a non traditional background, and though course mates did their best, more support was needed. Such a pity.) Getting a GPs appointment is a nightmare. DD was recently left on hold for 30 minutes and when someone answered they said the appointments for that day were gone and that she would have to try again another day - not easy when lectures normally start at 9.00.

In short if a student is floundering, there is no one really, say, to spot that they have no left their room for several days or seems withdrawn and to signpost them to welfare.

1. Bubbles talks about finding "your tribe" and suggests her DD was able to do this quickly. It is always easier to stick to what you know and I wonder what proportion came from similar backgrounds. Some of DDs friends have been amazed at the way, should she bump into someone from another private London day school, DD can reel of a list of common acquaintances. Indeed when she started there were probably about 50 people on campus that DD would have known well enough to stop and say hello to. However none of her close friends went to Bristol, she had had a gap year, and she wanted to branch out, which put her in a similar position to many who don't know anyone. My best guess is that Bubbles DD grew up in London/Home Counties went to a private school, and was able to start by accessing existing social networks.

Again DD is fine now, and most will be. But it took time. It does mean that she now has the experience that will help her adapt quickly the next time she finds herself in new surroundings. But I do believe Bristol can be initially tougher and less nurturing, than perhaps a smaller place like St Andrews.

But that is my five penny worth. OP can try to unravel the different the very different experiences.

It sounds like we all just have different views or different children. My sons had no problems using the free buses from Stoke B halls to Bristol and liked their halls. Other people may prefer halls in Central Bristol or prefer other university - that's fine. I htink the few of us who had children in SB halls who were very happy there just wanted to right the balance of posts which seemed to be against some of tne nicest halls in bristol, that's all.

My son was constantly going out to the supermarket to get stuff last year - I don't however know how long he had to go to get there so may be it is far away.

Xenia, DDs problem was that at least one flat guest never bought food, just ate what he could find in the flat. Supermarkets were not open when DD returned from sport, and she needed to leave at 6.30am for placements. The solution was to stock up on muesli bars to keep in the room. But again the issue is not a students ability to shop, but one of living in randomly allocated large flats without supervision.

I don't have a problem at all with your posts and I hope I have acknowledged that whilst DD had a difficult time, others were having a ball. (Actually I think one of the problems is that students often arrive with high expectations which makes it all the more difficult if it takes a while for them to find their feet.) However at times it can feel that if people post seeking help when a DC is struggling, there is an element from some posters of blame the student. It really does not help.

A friend’s daughter is at Badock this year. They were very upset by the amount of drug dealing that was going on in plain sight. Another friend’s son is at Badock this year and loves it!

Dd1 was in Wills in the more modern part, there were 20 girl’s rooms and then 20 boy’s rooms on a floor.

She made lots of friends and they are generally from a private school background. I commented on this and she said that people tended to write her off because of her accent, she does have a London accent. She runs a volunteer project and last year was involved in another project as well.

She had an offer from St Andrew’s but was put off when her guide told her that she knew masses of people and that wherever she went people knew her, DD wanted more anonymity.

No, you are incorrect needmoresleep. My DD went to Bristol with one girl from her school and they were not really great friends and lived in different halls. A handful of older girls arranged a meal for girls from the school who were at Bristol and DD took over this role in years 2 and 4. They did form an old school network to support each other but DD was the prime mover of it. She was always available for a chat.

She did know some boys from a boarding school when she started but they were all in a different hall (s). She had to make new friends in her hall.

Being upset about other people can be very wearing. It drains you. Some DCs want a different tribe from the one that’s immediately available. Your DD had a rotten time, needmore, mine didn’t. Your views are very coloured by that and are not typical. I don’t see why Xenia and I shouldn’t say what our DCs found and how they adjusted to student life without our DCs experience somehow being less worthy. The implication that my DD somehow had it easy because of ready made friends is ridiculous. She networked. She still does now she’s working. She’s just the sort of person who knuckles down and gets on with all life throws at her. No one, and especially medics and barristers, get everything all their own way and they have to deal with people who have all sorts of issues. Best get used to it. University is just the start!

Rather patronising, perhaps?

I think there are sufficient posts here to suggest that DDs experience, though not typical, was not unknown. “Best get used to it” type comments are not helpful.

It is hard to adjust to university for a lot of people. My twins and daughter had no friends at Bristol when they went there as far as I know. Mine were the only 2 to Bristol I believe from the twins' year - other boys seemed to prefer Durham or London.

My son in Churchill had a very small room last year but loved it as it seemed brand new and only he and one other boy used the shower immediately between their rooms. he ended up friends with both people on that corridor and also from elsewhere in the same halls some of whom he shares with in a house this year.

There is no doubt there are quite a few private school pupils in those halls but as I said my Wills son had I think 3 private only out of 9 in his section. I am not even sure I could tell you who was who - I visited and saw quite a lot of them. University is a good chance to mix with people who are different from who you are, for my sons coming from an all boys school even just having girls around is a big difference.

I went to Bristol many years ago. It was very posh then (I'm not), don't know itlf it still is tho.

One thing I can say - I lived in Churchill for Yr 1 and never took the bus. I used to cycle, lots of friends walked. It was about 2 miles to uni, if that! So unless the Wills building has moved (much has changed there but that I doubt) it is very much walkable.

OP has yr dd had offer holder days offered? I would very much recommend them, dd went to one for her top choice and it was great.

and their support for the University spending over three times the annual welfare budget to create "gender neutral" toilets.

How on earth did they manage to spend that much? My old university did it on the cheap by converting the accessible toilets to gender neutral which I think was appalling but not as appalling as spending that much money. Bristol is rolling in cash and can afford to do so much better.

Living at university is prep for future life. Of course there are people that are unpleasant but when you work as a medic, or in many other roles, they come your way. It is fairly important to get used to being around people you don’t care for if only for a bit of y1.

Does anyone really care about expenditure on toilets?!

Needsmoresleep - your summary perfectly sums up my DC’s experience. However I think we have to agree that different students do have different experiences and neither side is right or wrong. I add my posts to help paint a full picture of life at Bristol and help others decide if it’s for them.

My DD said the students who seem to be having the best time at Bristol are the arts students who can party til the small hours on a Monday night as the don’t have early lectures, sports people who don’t mind having the word bitch painted on their faces and forced to drink copious amounts of alcohol on a pub crawl and those with money to spend on clubs, takeouts (on no food nights) and Ubers.

Bubbles - I agree that she would have in hindsight been happier at a campus uni. She actually turned down Warwick because she thought she would enjoy Bristol more. She chose Bristol as her course was very highly rated, she loved the Dept and because she was told that everyone loves Bristol, it’s one of the best student cities and best places in the UK to live etc. She thought therefore that her student experience would be great. Sadly it has not been.

Bubbles

Brizzle thetab.com/uk/bristol/2018/09/13/bristol-university-to-introduce-gender-neutral-bathrooms-in-all-buildings-34168

There you go!

Bubbles, it depends on priorities. If your DD is unlikely to need welfare support I assume she was not worried about, say, hall wardens being cut to afford more centralised staffing. And assume she is not Muslim and is sufficiently confident not to worry about gender neutral loos.

And again living conditions which were unsafe and made it difficult to study/sleep would seem to go again the idea of a University as a centre of learning and education. Was your DD really able to get to her 9.00am lectures each morning? Mine found it really hard if the noise did not stop till 4.00am. In contrast DS really enjoyed his first year in London and the way he was able to immerse himself in his subject. .

And Blueplanet thetab.com/uk/bristol/2018/12/19/uob-rugby-freshers-fall-ill-after-eating-raw-chicken-livers-at-social-has-rugby-culture-gone-too-far-35541 one for you. DD told me a horrid story about one of the girls sports initiations last year. The girl she knew was lucky not to wind up in hospital.