Won't get the grades for Medicine: now what?

[ChesterBelloc]

Hi all,

My DD is in Y12, taking A-levels in Biology, Chemistry & Physics. She has dyslexia, and got 3As/7s, 3Bs/6s and 3x5s at GCSE. She has been stuck on Medicine (and becoming a neurosurgeon) for years, but after half-term we are having a meeting with her and her teachers during which I fully expect to hear that her predicted A-level grades will be 3 Bs max.

I, and her teachers, have been hinting for a while now that she may will not get the grades necessary to have even a chance of getting into Med School; she, however, is quietly stubborn and refuses to accept that hard work (and she is a very hard worker) will - sadly - not be enough to get her there.

Can anyone help me with ideas for alternative Med/Science-related degrees that she might be better off aiming for with Bs at A-level? There seem to be hundreds of possibilities, and I don't know where to start.

(FYI She got a 5 for GCSE maths, has already re-sat it once but came out with the same grade. I think she wants to try it again...)

TIA.

OP, would your DD fit the profile for this Medicine degree with Foundation year. UEA aren’t the only place offering Medicine with a Foundation year so you could look around some more, I know Leicester uni offer it as well. Good luck!

@MacarenaFerreiro - Pharmacy requires people skills, too. It is a healthcare profession that involves direct engagement with patients. Pharmacology is a lab science that wasn't in your list.

Yes pharmacy in the traditional dispensing sense involves engaging with patients - but there are lots of qualified pharmacists doing lab based roles too. One pharmacist I know works in the NHS giving presentations about new drugs and advising GPs on how to reduce their bill with alternatives to common medications.

OP's DD sounds so like my son, he is definitely going to end up in a lab somewhere with his petri dishes and will be happy as Larry. There are lots of options out there though for the OP's child - it's not medicine or nothing.

Clinical Perfusion Scientist. Can be very hard to get into, it requires a clinical science degree, then a year of on the job training plus a masters. It is extremely well paid. 5 years in and you are band 8 on Agenda for change. Very technical and skilled position but not very well known in the NHS. Main bulk of the work is in cardiac theatres/open heart surgery/transplants and also numerous assist devices in ICU. And the patients are all under anaesthetic! My dh is a cardiac surgeon but if he were to do it all over again he would seriously consider this job. Being a surgeon really isn't all it's cracked up to be. Hope she finds her way, whatever she does.

I think limiting herself to London universities is a huge mistake, shows a lot of inflexibility for a start. and what would she do when qualified? Newly qualified doctors get sent all over the country for their first few years.

As others have suggested she needs to be realistic , with those grades and poor interview skills she is already behind the pack. SHe also needs to understand that these days surgical specialities work in teams, they discuss and review patients and treatments with other professionals and specialists , so need excellent communication skills and the ability to absorb complex information presented in many different ways , not easy if you are dyslexic and have poor social skills. The days of a surgeon sweeping into theatre and not speaking to anyone are thankfully long gone.

I think she needs to be thinking outside the surgical box, pharmacology has been suggested, she should be ok in some Universities with those grades.

Physician Associate Programme - University of Central Lancashire

Looks like ODP still has patient contact, but presumably some is fine for OP's DD.

More info about the Operating Dept. Practitioner course. 3 yrs, mostly offered by ex-polys, but straight onto Band 5 when finished. London based course with video.

There are LOTS of videos on Youtube to show what the ODP job entails, like this one... good job for control freaks!

How about looking at becoming an ODP if she is interested in surgery? Clearly long-term it isn't as financially lucrative as being a doctor but could be equally rewarding with an opportunity to train on the job and also work flexibly in the future.

Alternatively what about optometry? Depending on where you live optometrists are in high demand and can earn £££. There may be a route to start as an optical assistant and then study for DO qualifications and then progress to Contact Lens Optician and/or Optometrist.

I’d let her apply and find out for herself. If she’s anything like my DCs, she won’t appreciate you deciding for her what she can and can’t do, and she may just surprise you. I don’t mean that as harshly as it reads. She needs to feel you’re on her side, and that you believe in her. Your relationship with her is more important than her uni application.

My brother many years ago didn't get his grades for medicine. Did a geology degree. Then a masters in geochemistry.
Earns a fortune in the petrochemical industry

Does she get extra time for her dyslexia? If not she should see if she's eligible.

agree about not focusing on the grades - the real question is what would appeal and match her abilities. Encourage her to go for work experience so that she can see for herself that the job involves more people contact than she thinks. Talk through the many possibilities listed above.

Suggest helping her to investigate actual jobs and work back from there.

Many NHS jobs, including medicine, have poor terms and conditions. There are lots of other good options in STEM that don’t require A grades.

There are options to apply medicine through foundation year which they don't require AAA unlike most of the medical schools. There are few medical school does it .I know Keele and Nottingham offer this.

Try applying to eastern euro medical schools (in hungary and bulgaria). They take B grade students. And then (unless brexit changes things), she can practice here. Loads of UK people i know have done this.

Some universities have foundation years for students who may not make the grade. Leicester offer places for students with BBB, the course leads to the medicine degree but allows for students to swap to other life science degrees.

le.ac.uk/medicine/study/foundation-year

I think the foundation degrees usually require some sort of Widening Participation criteria

Well many years ago (22) I studied medical microbiology on ABB BUT I would say to her to consider what it is about medicine that really appeals to her. Btw I have a yr 13 dd and a yr 12 ds so I know exactly what you’re going through as her mum!! The medicine with foundation yr sounds really interesting - my dB did engineering off a foundation yr as he missed his grades totally and now has a very high flying career in Switzerland! Anyhow - if she can narrow down why she wants to do medicine and what area of medicine she might have gone/go into she can think about (if foundation yr doesn’t suit) which of the related careers she might want to do. If it’s the working directly with patients the physio/occupational therapy/midwifery/nursing/psychology/pharmacy/podiatry might suit her - if it’s more the science then she might find pharmacology/biomedical science/med micro are more for her. I was a failed medic but tbh if I had my time again I’d do pharmacy or midwifery as I wish I’d done something people facing. Sending her lots of luck!

A very talented friend at my school (a comp) missed out on medicine just slightly, did biochemistry and then went on to medicine from there, part of a medicine degree means getting a BSC anyway.

I knew someone else who also converted their degree, it used to be called a conversion course but I don't know much as I didn't do one and I'm talking nearly 20 years ago.

Nursing? Then do further qualifications to become a nursing practitioner?

part of a medicine degree means getting a BSC anyway.

Not usually. This is optional for most medicine courses. It's only compulsory at St Andrews, Edinburgh, Cambridge, Oxford, UCL and Imperial. At Nottingham & Southampton you get an additional bachelor's degree (BMedSci) after completion of the third year of the standard 5-year programme. Everywhere else you have the option to take an extra year to intercalate and get an additional bachelor's or master's degree, but in most medical schools a minority of students do this.

I think the foundation degrees usually require some sort of Widening Participation criteria

@Fazackerley is correct. The foundation years that take students with lower grades are only open to students with indicators of disadvantage, and sometimes only to students from a particular geographical region (e.g. inner London for King's; north-west for Edge Hill; 70% of places at Leicester reserved for students from east midlands).

One of pupils did a degree in something like theatre management (operating theatre) which was very practical and based at our local hospital.

@HarryTheSteppenwolf

Apologies, a relative of mine did medicine at one of the unis you list were BSC is compulsory, I presumed it was standard practice