Won't get the grades for Medicine: now what?

[ChesterBelloc]

Hi all,

My DD is in Y12, taking A-levels in Biology, Chemistry & Physics. She has dyslexia, and got 3As/7s, 3Bs/6s and 3x5s at GCSE. She has been stuck on Medicine (and becoming a neurosurgeon) for years, but after half-term we are having a meeting with her and her teachers during which I fully expect to hear that her predicted A-level grades will be 3 Bs max.

I, and her teachers, have been hinting for a while now that she may will not get the grades necessary to have even a chance of getting into Med School; she, however, is quietly stubborn and refuses to accept that hard work (and she is a very hard worker) will - sadly - not be enough to get her there.

Can anyone help me with ideas for alternative Med/Science-related degrees that she might be better off aiming for with Bs at A-level? There seem to be hundreds of possibilities, and I don't know where to start.

(FYI She got a 5 for GCSE maths, has already re-sat it once but came out with the same grade. I think she wants to try it again...)

TIA.

Biomedical sciences. Then convert to train as a doctor.

She may find after that degree she's had enough of studying x

Even if if she is interested in doing surgery procedures she should not dismiss nursing. Nurses who go on to train as nurse specialists will be in posts requiring parallel skills and responsibilities to doctors. Nurses can also apply for this www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/medical-associate-professions/roles-medical-associate-professions/physician-associate.

and this
www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2017/aug/30/nurse-perform-surgery-patients-alone-surgical-care-practitioner

Neuroscience degree an then Physician Associate Masters. She could work purely in Neurology and even first assist in surgery

Psychology? The clinical psychologists at my organisation are well paid and very well regarded.

Any other degree that interests her, with a view to trying to get a place on a Graduate Entry Medicine course after that degree?

Pharmacology?

As pps have said, she shouldn't dismiss nursing.

Another suggesting Biomed or perhaps Biochem.

Let her go for it ive heard of people getting in with 3 Bs in my day ... even

She can always retake and reapply once if she wants to

Has she got relevant work and voluntary experience?

Gosh don't right her off yet I am dyslexic with worse GCSE grades than her 1A, 6Bs, 1C. Sheer bloody mindedness combined with hard work got me into vet school. Resilience is one of the biggest things require to be a vet or doctor she is showing that.
30 years later I have been a practicing vet for 20 years, a practice owner for 13 years, have another undergraduate degree and graduate first in my year in my post grad qualification with a distinction, sheer bloody mindedness and hard work can take you everywhere you want to go even if you are dyslexic.

Operation department practitioner. My ddil does this and loves it

1A, 6Bs, 1C

But that was 30 years ago! Those grades now would be 1 Astar and 6 As.

An average of B grade GCSEs does suggest OP's dd is unlikely to get the grades or indeed offers required, and is sensibly looking at alternatives.

Of course I don't want to write her off, but looking at the academic requirements just to apply for med schools, let alone all the extra hoops they have to jump through, just to be able to compete with seven other applicants for every one place, I simply don't think she's in that league. Also, for personal reasons she's limited to London med schools, which obviously narrows the field massively.

She's not a people-person (partly why she wants to be a surgeon - her patients will be unconscious!), which is another reason I think she'd struggle at interview. I hear they're much keener on 'soft' skills than they used to be. Empathy and emotional sensitivity are not her strong points.

She could (and will probably want to) re-take and re-apply, but I think she'll be wasting her time chasing something that is beyond her natural reach. I just hopes she realises that sooner rather than later...

Thanks for all the suggestions of alternative degrees/career paths, I am slowly working through them!

Speech and Language Therapy offers the opportunity to work with people who have neurological difficulties. However, when DD applied (2 years ago) most of her offers were AAB or ABB. She did have a BBB offer though.

If she doesn't want to work 1:1 with patients, then lab work or theatre nursing, maybe?

Some unis inc Nottingham do a six year medicine degree which includes a foundation year for people who didn't make the grades for the usual route. I don't know anything about it though apart from knowing it's a thing.

here

and here

Many biomedical courses allow them to transfer to medicine if they get high enough grades (eg Warwick), but I would suspect the grades needed would be higher than BBB.

She's not a people-person (partly why she wants to be a surgeon- her patients will be unconscious!). Is she perhaps getting surgeons confused with anaesthetists? But even they have to be able to communicate with patients. Sure, lack of skill is more likely to kill than lack of people skills, but...

Biomedical science followed by graduate entry medicine is an obvious choice, but there’s always Pharmacy or Radiology too.

If she’s not keen on a person-facing job then biomed seems like a good option. I agree with whoever said that an early ambition to be a brain surgeon is maybe a bit fanciful, though.

Good luck to her though. If I had my time again I’d definitely want to pursue some sort of medical career - but not medicine

If she can only do London unis, take a look at St George’s. Can be slightly easier to get into. If she really wants to do it she will find a way. A large percentage of medic students have done something else first.

But a bioscience focussing on neurology is also a good alternative

Chester being a good communicator and people person are vital skills in the role of a surgeon. They do not just operate. More time is spent in the out-patient clinic, on wards and teaching.

She may be better suited to pathology/lab if she doesn't have good people skills/natural empathy and still wants to do medicine. Anaesthetists in particular need good social skills as deal with patients in ICU and their families.

Hope your DD finds a course to suit.

I was going to advise on possible routes into medicine for BBB students from under-represented backgrounds. Then I read this...

She's not a people-person (partly why she wants to be a surgeon - her patients will be unconscious!), which is another reason I think she'd struggle at interview.

It's not a question of struggling at interview. What's much more important is that she would hate being a doctor and would absolutely detest being a medical student. All doctors have to be comfortable working with people and be committed to caring for patients. Surgeons do not just perform operations: they might only spend two or three half-days a week doing this. They have to spend a lot of time talking to patients before surgery - including deciding whether they actually need surgery and making sure they understand what the surgery is going to involve, how long it will take to recover, etc. - and managing their recovery after surgery. Many of these patients will be anxious, confused and frightened. Healthcare professionals working with them need to be empathetic and caring as well as highly skilled.

It seems to me like you and her teachers need to stop focusing on grades and get her to think about what she would actually enjoy and gain satisfaction from doing. She might be interested in studying neuroscience with a view to developing a research career in the basic science, diagnosis and/or treatment of brain diseases. It is definitely not an easy option, though: she would need at least two degrees (bachelor's and doctorate, possibly with a master's in between), taking at least 6 years, and would have to compete with many others to make her way into a good research group. If it really inspires her, this may be worthwhile.

I would recommend the book Also Human, about the struggles of doctors. It is seen as impossible to give up medicine, or the idea of medicine, when many medics would be better off in other jobs.