Applying for Uni 2019 entry Part 3, UCAS & offers

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

Wow that last thread filled up quickly. Well done to your DS, Piggy!

If we had had a pure BTEC provider (ie the one that's worth 3 a levels) nearby she would have done that.

DS is doing the 3 A level equivalent. Continuous assessment from the off, but suits him more than Linear A levels. I think a mix is a good idea actually as at uni they will have all different methods of assessment, and so your DD should be well prepared to cope.

Going back to Durham & is anyone applying to mid level - DD really likes Durham & her offer is lower than for Bath or Bristol (so she didn’t apply to either of those, she rang one of them & they confirmed their standard offer is A*AA). Durham, Loughborough , Exeter AAA, Manchester AAB. Waiting for Edinburgh but if she gets an offer that will probably be AAA.

Yes I don't understand why a single exam after 2 years is considered good prep for uni! She will be able to juggle exams and coursework for sure!

Some of you may find this interesting (perhaps should be a separate thread)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-pressure-sell-with-unconditional-offers-dg36f3b7k?shareToken=4c5ef0e7d9fcafe3316e76fd1b74a211

I think if you get an unconditional offer when your grades are lower than their requirements, when they have never met you, seen your portfolio either in person or electronically. Then it is a bit odd.

I rechecked a couple of unis yesterday to remind myself what grades are required. They had disappeared. One uni. just suggested the hopeful student contact them. Puzzling? Or is it normal for unis. to remove their entry requirements at this stage.

Interesting Errol. However, students need to remember that HR in companies get the same degree level applicants hitting their desks so go back to A level results. In my company we only see the shortlist, HR wean them out beforehand. There might be 200 applicants, we only see the last 8 chosen by HR.

Has anyone's DC received an offer from LSE?

My dd has just had an email from Bristol to tell her she won’t be offered a place on her chosen course (philosophy and economics), but would she like to consider international business management or marketing as an alternative. Anyone had similar? She’s minded not to bother as, much as she thinks she likes Bristol, she doesn’t want to go there for just any old course.

I just checked my Spam folder! Allt he stuff about offer holder days from Lincoln had been going into Spam ... I seem now to have booked three different days as I thought they weren't acknowledging me... oops.

On another note, UiFs in the news this weekend:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46919855

My DF is a Marketing lecturer : (well, advertising actually). It really is nothing like philosophy and economics!

I know. DD is not tempted just for the sake of going to Bristol. She already has offers from Sheffield and Cardiff and is waiting on Exeter and Edinburgh (not optimistic on that one!) I just wondered if anyone else had had this from anywhere else. Are they just trying to fill up undersubscribed courses?

Yes I saw the story about unconditional offers too. Re this bit:

"Applicants who accepted an unconditional offer were more likely to miss their predicted grades by two or more grades, the researchers found."

Is that because they stop working (one theory), or is it, rather, that students are more likely to accept an unconditional if they think they're going to miss their predicted grades (if mocks have been disappointing etc)? In other words does anyone know if there's any evidence which way the causation works?

(I'm starting from a not-anti unconditional offers pov, which I realise may be unusual for mn!)

As a sixth form teacher, I actually think it's the latter. 'Lower ranked' (note speech marks!) unis start from a starting point of having 'entry requirements' that really aren't that far off 'middle ranked' ones. To give an example, my DS has an offer of BBC from Aberystwyth and form Portsmouth. I expected the gap to be wider (and there isn't even a gap!). DS (a BCC student on a good day!) didn't really find many unis that actually claimed to take students on BCC/CCC. But he has applied anyway : the school has predicted him BBC (generously). he has two UiFs from unis that otehrwise want BBC or BCC. If he takes those he wil probably in the end get BCC or CCC, maybe even a bit lower.

I am not sure I am being all that clear: I did have lots of students last year that went to uni on UiFs. None of them got stellar grades (apart from one boy and that was a top university) but tbh they weren't going to anyway. And , it was better for their MH and stress, definitely as with a conditional they would always have been skating on thin ice.

What I don't know is how they are getting on now, mind.

People don't tlak about clearing in the same way. Yet, I had a girl go off to uni, having failed to get her BBB and BCC offers (she got CCD). Arguably, she is as poorly equipped for uni as those who got those UiFs (and got slightly better A Level results). I have caught up with her and she is flourishing.

The students who really don't work hard at A Level are the ones who have no plans for their futures at all (mainly boys!) who generally have zero motivation. They bomb their A Levels and then don't even have a good starting platform for any future change of heart.

What I don't like is the bribery element of UiFs. Much prefer straight unconditionals.

Very interesting piggy - that is sort of what I suspect (as may be obvious from the format of my post!). Oxbridge used to offer 2 Es - as far as I know nobody ever actually got that because they tended to be quite hardworking anyway (obviously know the two situations are not precisely comparable, but perhaps in the case of some univs making uif offers, not as different as you might immediately suppose)

I agree with you about the beneficial effect on stress. As for the 'only if firm' bit, I suppose the truth is that the uifs benefit the universities because students are more likely to make them firm; but they do also benefit some students from the stress point of view.

I got an offer in he dark Ages of two Cs (not A Levels as Scottish) from York. Still want on to get top grades. If you are academic, you will generally set yourself high standards, be competitive, and enjoy learning.

I got several 2 Es offer (not Oxbridge, but I had been interviewed). I got 4 As. I hope ds's unconditional offers means he'll still get his predicted grades (A, A, B) and I think it's more likely with the pressure off (for him).

Heard this discussed on r5 live yesterday. It would be interesting to know how many students who take unconditionals subsequently drop out, compared to those who achieve the offered grades, perhaps because the course is taught at a higher level than they attained or they succumbed to the marketing ploy and went to a less suited uni/course, which did not meet expectations. Sheffield Hallam were arguing that they only make uif offers to those they are confident will meet the grades anyway but the stats were very high(40%). Others offer financial incentives to students with uif offers who overachieve predicted grades.

I think unconditionals are ace. But I have a very diligent, hard working child who struggles with the stress of a final exam. It would really take the pressure off but she'd work just as hard. She's like a rabbit in the headlights if she thinks her future depends on an exam.

fazackerly my DD precisely the same! Sadly she prob won’t be going with any of her u/c offers 😩

Dd hasn't got any unconditional offers sadly (yet) but she does have a super low tariff points offer if firmed (think she'd only have to pass one a level because she already has some tariff points) but it wouldn't be her first choice of uni.

Dd has just realised all her conditional offers are unconditional if she firms them. She hadn't clicked into the individual offers to read the small print. So 4 unconditional and one she hasn't heard back from.

Back in the day, two or three E offers for applicants with good predicted grades were normal, and I'm not sure many places had the high requirements which are normal on top ranked courses nowadays. This was well before the expansion and 'commodification' of the university sector. With a 4A prediction (no stars back then of course) I had a 3E offer from a couple of red bricks, can't remember what my imperial offer was exactly but it was something you'd not consider high nowadays - something like ABC.

It never crossed my mind that this meant I didn't need to try to do as well as I possibly could in my A levels... perhaps then they were more valued themselves rather as (as is sadly too much the case nowadays) as a means to an end?

Is that because they stop working (one theory), or is it, rather, that students are more likely to accept an unconditional if they think they're going to miss their predicted grades (if mocks have been disappointing etc)? In other words does anyone know if there's any evidence which way the causation works?

There is a side issue that some may be aware that if they (or their parents) managed to persuade their referee to make a somewhat aspirational prediction to enable them to be considered for a particular course / university, actually getting what they were most likely to get all along isn't going to cut it on results day.

DS1 accepted one of his UIFs and went on to meet his (in line with general achievement and AS level) predictions. Certainly could have got A* rather than A in Maths, though - right UMS, wrong order - but hey ho.

DD has UIFs from the same two universities and may yet accept the same one as he did; in her case it would be because the one university which she probably would prefer, although ABB conditional rather than the AAB of the one offering 'or UIF', requires that one A in a specific subject. We are not telling her not to go for the unconditional - my attitude being, don't put somewhere on your UCAS form if at the point of applying you know that you don't want to go there - but are very strongly urging her not to rush her decision.

My DD's experience is that last year in her selective sixth form, some of the students that got unconditional offers definitely stopped working. You may say that 'that's their problem', but two of these students were in my DD's drama A-level group and failed to attend most of the rehearsals because they were 'at the hairdressers' or 'still in bed'. My DD who worked really heard used to cry in frustration at their lack lustre attitude. As predicted the whole group were let down and they received a low group performance mark. Both of the girls received low A-level grades but still went on to their Uni place.