Engineering university choices....pls help

[Canadalife]

Hello..we seek help and advice for lovely DD. My daughter is applying for general engineering this September. She is doing Maths, Further Maths and Physics A levels...predicted grades A,A A...poss Oxford.Definetly not London ie no Imperial. She is considering oxford , Durham, Warwick, Cardiff and Sheffield. Does anyone have any experience with any of these unis/cities, or other unis they’d recommend us looking at for engineering? All help gratefully received.. Thank you .

Re the engineering courses at Bristol, DS spent 2 weeks there as a sixth former as part of an engineering in education course, and felt the facilities were pretty old compared to Southampton where he did his head start course.
At UCAS he was offered both and chose Southampton, by graduation (in July) everyone he knew had a grad job lined up ready to start in September. Most went into engineering though there were a few who went the City banking/consulting route.
Interestingly DS2 (mech eng at Warwick), found that he and his friends were targeted by the big management consultancies, their reasoning being that engineers are used to problem solving and working in groups. They have great maths skills (obviously), and are used to preparing reports and giving presentations. All massively transferable and useful in consulting and financial careers.

I'm sad to see Bath not mentioned, has it gone down hill as it was great when I studied elec eng many moons ago.

I’m not sure Bath is seen as an engineering university. It’s very strong in the field of architecture though. However with engineering there isn’t really a wrong university but some do a lot more engineering courses than others.

Regarding being an Incorporated Engineer, I didn’t say it wasn’t an Engineer, but salaries and promotion prospects can be limited. You can earn more and get faster promotion if you get fully Chartered. I tend to think that Engineering does itself no favours by having two levels of qualification post degree and people think they are the same. They are not. CEng is always the higher qualification and consultants will expect their top grad engineers to get this qualification. Not many years ago there was no such qualification as Incorporated. They were technicians. They couldn’t sign off work and would not lead a team of Chartered Engineers, for obvious reasons. Essentially it’s a qualification but it’s like a Dr who hasn’t actually got a doctorate but is allowed to practice anyway but with limited responsibilities. All students who do MEng should aim to get fully Chartered.

What field are you in bubbles? There are only 2 CEng engineers in my building services practice but that isn't holding anyone back. There are lots of electrical engineers who never went to uni but have years of practical experience and a depth of knowlegde that puts the rest of us to shame.

I am going for chartership but i've never seen it as essential to getting a more senior position.

For anyone with younger budding engineers I'd second bruffin's mention of the Arkwright scholarship and Headstart. Also the Smallpeice courses. These things are good for giving them more focus on types of engineering (and as a secondary benefit the sort of supracurricular activity good for demonstrating sustained genuine interest in the field on personal statements, subsequent scholarship applications etc)

LivingDeadGirlUK Bath is currently top of the list for my ds!

I have to say I am very grateful to MN for the info about needing a Masters to become chartered. I have an engineering degree but did not know that till I read it here - I took a different path a few years after graduating so am out of touch.

My DH is an Avionics Engineer and licensed through the CAA. Doing CAA exams and approvals are what counts in his career not whether someone is chartered.

Headstart, that was the scheme I was trying to remember - seem to remember a good list of universities participating, Warwick, Sheffield, Southampton spring to mind, but I think Cambridge or else they did something similar. Arkwright also a great scheme, DS school weren't aware of it but cousins son got a scholarship and some great work experience through it and I am sure it helped the UCAS application. DS has a masters but has not gone on to chartered, he may change his mind and do it in a few years but is looking at other jobs - Engineering is a well respected degree even if you choose not to become any sort of engineer at the end of it.
Engineering friend who was also involved in graduate programmes a bit fan of Bath, encouraged his own son to go there - also very good for sports. Loughborough has some excellent courses and great facilities - high success rate in the jobs market and some masters degrees are done at their London campus. (who knew?). Friends DD loving it.

BubblesBuddy - headstart is a weeks residential, all the universities that participate make a charge based on accommodation and food etc. - there are bursaries. It counts as the residential section of the Gold DoE, my DS didn't use it as he stopped at Silver, he was told on the course that it counted, but it wasn't why he went on it, clearly for some it was useful to tick that box, but you have to apply to get on it, have good grades in maths and physic and write a statement with your application - not everyone gets a place.
Everyone I know with gold DoE has ended up having to pay towards their residential - the truth is DoE is not cheap - my middle DS had to come out of his because my husband lost his job and even to start on it we had to pay £150 towards the camping equipment and administration costs!

Re. the relative who has just graduated from Bristol in Engineering with a first, I am sure did Mechanical with a strong Design element, it was the design element I think he found disappointing, they didn't have the equipment that Loughborough could offer for example, but overall he liked the city and has worked really hard to get the first he was determined to get from the start. Other friends nephew did same - never intended to be an engineer just wanted a highly regarded degree from a well regarded Uni and walked into a very well paid Grad. scheme at one of the big four - I have seen loads try to do the same - it is an exhausting process with low success rates.

Poppyinagreenfield - very good advice - I know a couple of Civil Engineering students who are now working in the building industry and enjoying their jobs - lucky them. Also a quantity surveyor who studied at Nottingham Trent and was offered good grad. job at the end of his work experience part of the degree - he was thrilled.

Very useful thread.
My D'S has been a bit lazy, I suspect his grades will be around BBB.
Would that be enough to get into an engineering degree?

You would have to look at individual uni websites Delphinium to find out. I do recall Nottingham saying at their open day that if you missed your offer they would possibly offer you a place on the foundation course which would be another route in.

DS went to Imperial for his Headstart course, also his Arkwright interview was at Imperial

DelphiniumBlue, also look at Brunel if interested in design, they have engineering degree in Product Design currently ABB (although small and West London so not usual student vibe) and maybe Queen Marys in East London - if your DS is keen on DT some of the engineering with strong design side take lower grades - of course who knows with the new A levels still not fully up and running and apparently male applicants overall being less than last year for all Uni courses - there will be choices out there I am sure. Sussex and Brunel are advertising places in clearing for engineering this year already. I think there is a website, maybe via UCAS where you can put in expected grades and they bring up suggestions within the field of interest.

This is a really good thread. My DS wants to do engineering but is now looking around now he has got his higher grades. We are resident in Scotland, so looking at scottish unis,

I have a young friend who did Design Engineering at Aston, he now has an enviable job with a luxury car manufacturer, their entry requirement is BBB I think.

It's hard to make a wrong choice really. Engineering is many fantastic careers, some very academic, some quite practical, some very creative. There are different career routes and often young people who don't have stellar A levels can still get a great degree and have their pick of jobs.

When you say no one is held back, Livingdeadgirl, you don’t know what they could be earning elsewhere if they were Chartered. Probably more.

If you look at the top ranked consulting civil and structural engineers such as Arap, Mott MacDonald, Atkins etc they expect their best young graduate engineers to get Chartered. They run the accredited schemes for graduates to achieve that. If people join a company that does not offer the post grad route to getting Chartered then they won’t have the opportunity to get Chartered. Therefore they are not top ranking in the engineering profession but are good enough.

Getting Chartered is done via an approved training and accreditation scheme for all the main recognised professional Engineering institutions. As is Incorporated Engineer, but to a lower level. Every budding engineer should know this. It makes a difference to leadership and earnings. If a company can get away with recruiting grad engineers and not fully training them post grad they are really letting the young engineers down. It might be that the grad engineers don’t want to bother of course, but in many high quality consultancies they wouldn’t be taken on on that basis. The firms who don’t have Chartered engineers are no doubt saving on salaries as Chartered Engineers are usually paid more for the responsibilities they hold. I guess for some people, if you earn well without bothering, that’s good enough. We wouldn’t like a part qualified Medical Dr though!

In countries like Canada the title Engineer is protected. As for people who have just worked over a period of time but don’t have qualifications, there are many high quality employers that would value that, but it’s the Chartered Engineers who will be the senior management and team leaders in most professional consultancies. Otherwise why is there a top qualification to aim at? When my DH got Chartered all the grads became Chartered sooner or later. It is not good practice to say that because some companies don’t care about Chartered status that young people don’t need to bother. It will limit the high flyers if they don’t and they must go to an employer that enables them to get Chartered or they have underachieved as a top professional.

Yes, there are engineering degrees with various entry requirements, including some good ones which will take good BTecs as well as A levels. It really is a matter of finding the appropriate 5 for the UCAS 'aspirational', 'realistic' and 'fallback' spread of applications, in places the applicant can imagine living happily.
Though maybe there's a bit less choice for general engineering than specific disciplines.

Some of the courses DD applied to offered a 'free insurance' eg Southampton EEE offered (iirc) A*AA for the MEng but AAA would get you a BEng place with ability to trade up if you were doing well enough. This made it a realistic insurance offer for those putting Cambridge or Imperial as first choice. Worth looking out for that sort of thing in the mix.

Some of the higher entry requirement ones really do value further maths (I've heard that some places, maybe Soton, if you don't have it you have to essentially teach yourself the relevant parts during the first term). Others won't have this requirement but the more able students then maybe could find the pace slow.

I agree with Bubbles re the importance of Chartered for newly qualified Grads. I think that this is the standard now & qualified by experience engineers will be less likely to achieve the senior roles moving forwards.
It is certainly expected by the employers my DS have that they will go on to become chartered. It is actively encouraged and supported. Not to do this would limit their prospects in the future, ie 3-5 years post grad.

Thank you error!! I was beginning to think no one had grasped the importance of post grad qualifications and that experience was just as good! It’s not.

Thankfully Google doesnt have that attitude, they want a degree or experience.

From the POV of university applications... if you've got a choice between a fully accredited course or not, then other things being equal then going for the accredited one can't be a bad thing.

IET spreadsheet here:
www.theiet.org/academics/accreditation/downloads/accreditedprogs.cfm

Also from a quick google

targetjobs.co.uk/career-sectors/engineering/advice/282495-becoming-a-chartered-or-incorporated-engineer-after-starting-a-graduate-job

The role, the prospects and the salary are all higher for chartered engineers.

To do what though bruffin? You are hardly going to be a grad engineer with experience and you won’t get on a training programme to get Chartered. Why is it we continually think that in engineering experience is equal to a top qualification? In no other professional field would we accept that! Do you really want an unqualified person designing bridges for HS2? Or maybe the next passenger jet? Or maybe they should have a go at designing a power station? We need the highest calibre of person to do this type of work. Not someone without a degree or post grad qualifications.

I think you underestimate experience and learning on the job.
Google want research scientist and software engineers requirementscare BA or relevent experience. The majority of engineers are not going to designing the next H2

I don't quite get what the relevance of google is to a discussion of engineering (not software engineering) degrees?