Medicine 2018 part 3

[SomersetS]

Hope you all find this - didn't realise I took 999! Whoops.

My reaction of UCL no contest was based exclusively on how much the UCL medical student friends of the DC have enjoyed life compared to the Birmingham medical school friends: seems to me on this very shallow basis that UCL has got a much bigger thumbs up. I wasn't thinking about 'reputation' at all. But the question was, what has the experience been of recent older DC [and their friends presumably], so I answered accordingly.

I think playing tactically with a view to the F1/ F2 application is a mistake. Being happy in a particular location with a teaching and placement style that suits will do far more to improve a student's position in terms of decile than anything else I'd have thought. DS1 has just managed not only to get his first choice of deanery but top choice of job withing that deanery, so playing tactically wouldn't seem to have given him any advantage. Instead he benefited from being in a beautiful city for six years and didn't spend months at a time away in various district hospitals with a fractured social life - the full impact of which has only just dawned on me courtesy of these threads - but would be something I'd definitely put into the melting pot in making a decision. All very well to be super committed to medicine etc but these DC are still young and need a decent social life, not necessarily to be holed up in grotty district hospital accommodation for weeks on end without access to their friends. But then my own work ethic has always been dubious :)

Were these friends male? I have heard reports of misogyny at London medical schools, backed up with observation of a group at a London teaching hospital. Male students in the centre better able to observe, females on the outside. I have no idea if this is a real problem but it sort of put us off.

No not exclusively or even mostly although some are boys. I have four girls and four boys and they go to a co-ed school where pretty even numbers in gender terms go to medical school, so it would be quite a co-incidence if the DC in question were all male! DD4 is irrelevant actually, only being a Y11, but these students are friends of the older three girls and four boys. I'm not sure my DC tend to pal up with misogynists anyhow Needmoresleep - I think my girls would give my boys and their male friends a run for their money if they tried any misogyny!

Good to see the thread continuing to provide more useful insights and very reassuring to see I'm not the only one who continues to worry about what's next (even though I thought we'd be able to relax once uni decisions were made - how naive!)
DD lucky to have 2 offers. Cardiff and Queens Belfast which finally came through last week. Queens says zero tolerance for grade misses. Cardiff said the same ay open day although I've read it has allowed AAB but contextual only.
@Naturelover3 your DC resit is this required in Chemistry only or do all 3 need to be retaken? Did your DC redo yr13?
@Jon1970 my DD is on roaccutane currently. Yes there are side effects but the transformation in DD's skin and her self-confidence has made it worthwhile.

A bit off topic for this thread but many thanks to @biscuit2000 and @SomersetS for the feedback on Roaccutane. It's reassuring that the side effects were manageable and not what you hear about in the media. Everything that you are saying is consistent with what the dermatologist has said.

@John1970 get Cetaphil gentle wash, Cetaphil moisturisers & try every lip balm going!

@Jon1970 I put off doing roaccuatane with my DS due to all the negative press. However we then met a dermatologist who said both his children had it so we decided to go ahead. We the started it right before GCSEs and DS did really well so no obvious effect on exam performance! It did cause the side-effects others have mentioned plus my DS also got bad nose bleeds but we discovered Sterimar which really helped with that. I have to say the difference it made to DS was huge and I only regret not doing it sooner.

Biscuit2000, My DS achieved an A in his other subjects and will be resitting his Chemistry only. He has not done Year 13 again as he has coverered the course material. He is revising at home from all his old notes and text books.

@biscuit2000 nice to see you again! Has your DD decided which of her 2 offers to firm? Mine still hasn't quite decided....

So DS still hasn't made his choice between Southampton and St Andrews, today his housemaster put in to the mix that he thought Southampton might be more forgiving re grades than St Andrews?

Thoughts? (Obviously want to get grades but just want to ensure playing best odds)

Goodbyestranger would be really useful if you could tell me what made life more enjoyable at UCL compared to Birmingham? Was it better in the acedemic area or better social life or better uni facilities or better accommodation or better commuting? Which areas of UCL life is better? I need to present a convincing case for UCL to help my son make the correct decision. He has been a brilliant student throughout, achieved all As in GCSE and the teachers are predicting that he will achieve the AAA required. He has been passionate about sports. Was a keen cricketer and hockey player upto gcse. Now he's into long distance running. Overall he is a very capable young man and has a very busy social life as well. Where do you think he fits best for Medicine - UCL or Birmingham ?

Isn't it peculiar how similar our DCs seem - the number of conditions, ailments, aims, problems, desires, issues etc.

@Naturelover3 thank you.
Hi @drinkofwater. DD has firmed Cardiff which is AAA. Queens want AAAa so she is taking AS German this year instead of the A-level. She thinks the CBL teaching will suit her and wanted early regular patient contact. Sports facilities are also important to her and Cardiff has many different university teams. I'm happy as it's an easy drive under 2 hours away. That said we loved Belfast which involved a flight but was still under 4 hours door to door!
Did you have any preference after your offer holder days?

Hi Ranm my own DC didn't go to UCL so that automatically throws up a health warning. My reaction was very much instinctive but - having always had a bias against London for undergrad, for my own DC - I've been struck by how incredibly positive their friends are about UCL in particular. A close friend of DS3 is a medic there now, hugely able academically and a keen sportsman, and just loves it but fair to say I haven't dug down into the detail of accommodation etc. Another friend of DD3 is a very similar student. I would say it's equally that I've come across friends of the DC who aren't nearly as positive about Birmingham, but I couldn't get close to putting together a case for one over the other. Just that UCL seems to consistently score higher in terms of enjoyment of life, and the post above about Birmingham gives a flavour. It used to be the case that there was (unnecessary) pressure to perform academically at Birmingham for fear of being kicked out after the first year but that may no longer be the case - it soured the first year for a few students though, even if they weren't given the boot. Sorry not to be able to be more detailed but as I say, it was very much UCL, no contest, as a gut reaction to the stories over recent years.

The students in question that I'm talking about are all medics - I haven't made that clear.

My DS has firmed Edinburgh with Bristol as second. Not sure that is very tactical, as can't see Bristol being forgiving of a grade slip, but that is what he wanted to do as those were his two favourites. Along with most of our DCs, he is a bit stressy at the moment, but still having a good mix of studying and partying, so hopefully that will work out!

Ranm there will be lots of similar students at both UCL and Birmingham so he find his level of peer group at those places.
Birmingham would definitely win for ease of combining high level sport with very good academics (and exposure to lots of varied high level clinical experience including the military centre )
UCL wins for a medic very keen in combining science with medicine. Although competing with lots of other bright medics there are so many really good research placements available and potentially the opportunity to do a PhD at the Crick. The UCL first year accommodation is rubbish and long commutes for most sports but being in London is so exciting for the right person.

t used to be the case that there was (unnecessary) pressure to perform academically at Birmingham for fear of being kicked out after the first year
I don't think this was ever the case from what I hear. Students might have to retake if they did n't achieve the required standards and that is externally moderated. Rumours of more medical students being kicked out of Birmingham after the first year were not founded on fact.

It wasn't a rumour at our school Oxfordmedic, these cases were based on hard fact, concerning former students of the school. This would have been the few years around a decade ago now, hence my caveat about the current situation. The same thing seemed to happen at KCL as well - specific cases again to hand - around the same period. The sense among the students at the time (including those who carried on) was that Birmingham deliberately took on too many students in the first year precisely with the intention of kicking out. I can put a name to students affected, so not rumour back then. Although fair to say that students always drop out, but this was more striking for the numbers apparently affected.

@biscuit2000 DD really enjoyed Cardiff offer holders day and thinks she likes their course the most - she really enjoyed the CBL taster session. I'm not totally sure what is stopping her from firming it. She loves Leicester's campus and the fact that there is a park just across the road from the medical school, plus the accommodation is set in botanical gardens! Bristol is still in the running too - despite their arrogance at offer holders day. Their new course is similar to Cardiff's, but she is a bit worried that she will still be a guinea pig.

I think for her the down side of Cardiff is that the med school is at the hospital, so separate from the rest of the Uni, plus no nice park across the road! She can't quite sort her priorities out in her head and still doesn't really want to talk about it! (I do - hence lengthy post here- sorry!)

The sense among the students at the time (including those who carried on) was that Birmingham deliberately took on too many students in the first year precisely with the intention of kicking out

The British system is not the same as the French. The number of places available to study medicine and dentistry is regulated by Government and controlled through intake targets.
What you say is not possible even a few years ago. Even the hearsay of students attending a medical school should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Yes I've never quite squared that with the regulated numbers. Is that numbers being enrolled for first year? Or numbers emerging at the end. At our school there were warnings about 'certain' medical schools and this practice. Another poster whose DC trained at KCL also several times on these threads referred to how many at KCL 'didn't make it through' the course, which squared with the info being given out at our school. To be blunt, the word was that fee paying students were being given priority over UK students. I didn't think to query the info at the time since examples of students being given the boot were students where I knew this to be the case, but I have wondered how it was consistent with numbers as tightly controlled as I know they are at Oxford. I just assumed other medical schools had more leeway as other unis do generally, across other subjects. It seemed extremely convincing at the time, and those giving the advice were in the thick of it so I'd have been surprised if there wasn't something awry. DS applied to Birmingham despite the issue anyhow and they seemed perfectly jolly and not especially Machiavellian at interview, so it will have to remain a not very important mystery :)

Numbers enrolled at entry. This link www.hefce.ac.uk/lt/healthcare/intake/ gives numbers for each medical school which are reviewed each year. Some medical schools have greater capacity for clinical attachments hence the differences in numbers.
Standards have to be maintained though so there are always students in each medical school who either have summer retakes or are allowed to repeat a year (these get included as first year intake) but a few will not make it through because of failing retakes.

”. . . that Birmingham deliberately took on too many students in the first year precisely with the intention of kicking out.”

Obviously a comment coming from someone living in a fantasy world (as with many other similar comments past and present) or otherwise high under the influence. . .

This is a world where a highly respected Russell Group university is taking the piss of their medical applicants.

This is a world where professionals from a medical school has nothing better to do than to spend 6 months of their time unnecessarily interviewing applicants and deliberately selecting the wrong students so that they can be kicked out after a year.

This is a world where there is no cost incurred to deliberately mess about with peoples’ lives and contravening both government and the GMC’s policies on medicine intakes.

”The number of places available to study medicine and dentistry is regulated by Government and controlled through intake targets.”

That’s more like a constructive, positive and very helpful comment.

A factual comment coming from someone who obviously knows about the business and the profession as opposed to ridiculous fantasies from the usual suspect.

Thank you Oxfordmedic!