Medicine 2018 part 3

[SomersetS]

Hope you all find this - didn't realise I took 999! Whoops.

Shank, no unfortunately you don't know the cut off until after you apply, so is always a bit of a gamble applying to a ukcat only med school unless you have a great ukcat. To be safe I'd say anything over 700 would be a sure thing but obviously it's going to depend on how the rest of the applicants do.

Thank you for your replies - Sheffield is quite high on her list but we wouldn't want to waste one of her four options if it could be close for Ukcat cut off- she also likes Nottingham , Birmingham,Bristol ,Edinburgh and Southampton at the moment.Can you phone Uni nearer the cut off time to see if they have anyclue ?

Shank2 - how is her GCSE result.
Birmingham and Nottingham gives a lot of importance to GCSEs

ProfessorLayton....I noticed on TSR that someone got in to St Andrews with UKCAT of 675 band 2 SJT, 7A*s and 3A’s. They do specifically like medical-based work experience (I believe, but double check this)....could this be an option... 🤔

Leicester use a scoring system using GCSEs and UKCAT, which you can find on their website. Cardiff just score GCSEs. So they could be options if you like them.

ProfessorLayton and Shank2 - my DS about to start at Sheffield - he got 737 and got interviews and offers from Sheffield, Bristol and Liverpool but rejected pre-interview from Nottingham. I would say 675 should be good enough for Sheffield as they are increasing their numbers this year.
That score definitely good enough for many UKCat med schools - Liverpool, Plymouth, HYMS, Nottingham for example.
SomersetS so pleased your DD on the mend x

Prof 675 isn’t bad at all my daughter is going into her second year as s medic with 630 you just need to apply to med schools strategically and choose schools that don’t require a high UK Cat

Having researched further - Birmingham looks good for that UKCAT score.
I cannot work out the Sheffield and Nottingham criteria for admissions and she is probably borderline for them- would be grateful if someone could point out in the right direction.
Cardiff is another option but it is local to us so she is not very keen!
Another option is to apply for two low UKCAT universities and go for two BMAT universities!

ProfessorLayton - this page has Sheffield’s admission criteria but TSR also useful as the admissions officer - Julian posts on it - we found he was very helpful and Sheffield were by far the most transparent and helpful through the whole process - essentially why my DS chose them.
www.sheffield.ac.uk/medicine/prospective_ug/applying/entryrequire

This is the TSR thread: www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4868386&page=39

Our experience was that the area between 640-675 was the difficult area where you start being ruled out of a number of places. DD tried Nottingham, despite it being a risky choice, but was one point short of an interview. Their guidance was pretty spot on. She was interviewed at KCL, Birmingham and Bristol. From what we have heard from others, Birmingham is a pretty reliable fall back for students with a strong academic profile. Though such students often perform relatively better at BMAT, so should take both.

It is a pity about Bristol. It was one of the few refuges for those who had a bad day at the office when taking UKCAT. Performance on the day can be affected by so many factors. And I liked the fact that they valued ‘doing’ and engagement. Getting stuck in and maintaining a commitment, whether in school leadership, sport, or in the community suggests the sort of resilience and engagement junior doctors may need. Better than a system where prospective medics are rewarded for spending abnormal numbers of hours attending expensive UKCAT prep courses or sitting in their bedrooms looking at a screen practicing UKCAT technique and timing.

DD took her test in a central London basement with broken air conditioning on the hottest day of the year. It is reasonable to assume the whole room underperformed relative to others with a more optimal commute and conditions. And that some failed interview cuts as a result. It can also be discriminatory. DD has extra time because she has impressively low processing speeds. UKCAT is a lengthy timed test which requires strong concentration. Everyone expects to be brain dead after normal time. Although in normal exams it really helps, DD felt that she gained little from the extra time. Interestingly the numbers attending SEN interviews were tiny and she appears to be the only dyslexic on her course, yet some of the compensatory skills that have allowed her to perform well academically (the ability to listen carefully and retain and the ability to grasp concepts quickly) will be useful in a busy hospital environment. On the flip side she believes that once she got to interview, ticking the SEN box did her no harm.

That said some use UKCAT less than others, so there is scope to select carefully. And as medical schools place increasing reliance on UKCAT scores, the scores required will fall. They are fishing from the same pond and the numbers with good scores is finite. Plus because of a birth rate dip and an expansion in the number of places overall numbers have fallen. (The wrong time to discard good candidates with proven academic records who performed badly on the day!)

Sorry that was long. I feel for those hard working kids who will make great doctors but who may rightly feel that the system is against them.

Sorry for day in replying- my daughter has 9 and 1 B in Eng Lang. A level pedicticed A,A* or ? A and an A - in Chemistry,Biology and Maths.

Baytreemum- Agree with your comments
Some children do not get the knack of doing these questions and are unfairly judged on a test which probably does not have any correlation with their performance in the medical school or as a life as doctor.
Both of us are hospital consultants and did try to answer some of the UKCAT questions
She was never getting above 700 even in her mocks.
VR scores were low for someone who has her nose in books all the time, writes fantastically - say no more!
It is a weird exam and the SJT should not be used in filtering the candidates!!
Although we were not thrilled that she wanted to do medicine we have supported her as parents..
I was distraught to see her yesterday as I know that she is not only a clever girl but has all the attributes to be an excellent doctor!
I suppose that they need to filter applicants some how and it should not be based on a single day performance in a test like UKCAT.
Thanks Needsmorehelp - as always spot on advice and encouragement..

If it helps at all my DD has a UKCAT of 687 and had interviews at Sheffield, Nottingham, Southampton and Liverpool with GCSEs of 6A*s & 4As. Southampton definitely went lower on UKCAT as there were 2 more interview days after her and they seemed to do it in order. Sheffield announce their cut off v honestly a week before offers and think it was around 270. Notts & Liverpool use PS so bit more subjective, and Notts also use SJT in their marking scheme.

Anything over 260 is s good UKCAT. It's a horrible test and my DD never did well in her practice tests but managed to do better on the day. Don't lose hope as it get interview then it's all about them

I means 660 ! Sorry away on holiday and it's v v v hot

Yes. Someone with 687 should not have problems getting interviews. As I suggested the problems start occuring oncs you get below 675. I cant remember what DD got but it was somewhere around the 660 mark, and she had to be quite selective. She had 7As at GCSE, a 4xA 1×A A level prediction and a strong PS but was still one point off the Nottingham cut off.

There is not a lot of difference between 660 and 687 and perhaps on another day, and had the airconditioning been working, and your dd had had an off day, the scores might have been reversed.

The point is that small variations in a one off test, plus school/parental awareness of the tactics required, make a lot of difference.

Your DD got 4 interviews, baytrees DD got none despite both getting the academic grades required. I am not convinced that the UKCAT test is sufficient to judge which applicant should be ruled out of a medical career, but this is what it does.

Whilst I agree the UKCAT is a bit of an odd ball, DD's school gave no help whereas others get in outside help and some parents paid fortunes for their DC to do courses.

I do think the timing of it makes selecting the right medical school fiddly and rushed, DD sat the test and then jumped on a train to look at HYMS, at the time I wanted her to look at other science courses instead... ironic now. She asked at HYMS and they showed exactly how their scoring worked and thought she was borderline for an interview but got one.

She absolutely was bright enough to get AAA, she failed to get a place not because her UKCAT made her look more able, but because I trusted the school (the scores for the whole year group concur that they had a very bad year for Biology in particular and a governor has admitted their focus was not on achievers and it has not been a great year at all).

There clearly is an element of luck in all tests. Equally being an able chemistry and biology student and grades to prove it are clearly good indicators for a medical student being successful. The solution would be loads more time and money put into the selection process so that more get a chance to shine at interview.

But I must add that many non medicine graduate programmes use very similar tests to the UKCAT at the first stage of their application process, for all sorts of industries, including accountancy, banking, law, pharmaceuticals and some big retail names. and without a certain score you do not get invited to the next stage.

The next stage for successful medical applicants are increasingly MMIs - these are not easy either and some include maths and reasoning of sorts - but many claim that overall MMI suit girls far better than boys, arguably this is stereotyping of course.

My nephew is talking about applying for medicine, I know his school is the type that will start offering help very early. If medicine is his aim he may well have to make sacrifices (he is a keen rower and initially only wants good rowing unis). I will tell him to take a look at Liverpool and St Georges - not just Exeter & Bristol that his school favours and reassess after test results.

Sorry !! Meant 275. Really should not type when it's 105

Professorlayton1 & Shank2 - don't panic with those scores. I can confirm that my DD had 677 and got 4 interviews. You just need to choose universities which make their choices using your strengths.
675 should be enough to squeak into Sheffield - take a look at the TSR thread last year for Sheffield Medical School and in particular posts from the very lovely Julian, Head of Med Admissions. He has been particularly helpful & Sheffield, unlike some others, are very transparent in their process.

Sheffield have a minimum application cut off but what you need to be is in the top 1000 applicants specifically to Sheffield to gain an interview. Can't remember the cut-off number but it was much lower than the actual number for those who achieved an interview. The score of students being interviewed is a moveable feast but I believe last year was low 670s so you should just make it. Wait for the final results and average score around end of September which we found traditionally fell quite a few points from the interim in August, don't panic yet.

With 11A* Cardiff should be on your list as a definite choice.
Also, from my experience consider Plymouth, Nottingham, Leicester, Southampton, Liverpool, HYMS. I'd avoid Newcastle. Read carefully the criteria for Edinburgh. I can't comment on the London ones as DD wouldn't even consider moving there! Not sure what Shank2 has in the way of grades - tot up the points your DC would get and add.

Bristol was tricky to follow last year & I believe is changing it's criteria for this year - have a good read of TSR & the Med website.

SJ2 is not a problem. Only if you get SJ4 does it prevent some applications.

Make a spreadsheet. Write a stellar personal statement. Ensure you have work experience, volunteering or a part-time job and apply it to the skills you will need to be a doctor.

Spend time (with a notebook & glass of wine) looking at the TSR threads and taking note of the scores & grades applicants quote & who got interviews - suggest November to March if you can't face the whole year! But, remember too there are many who don't go on TSR who got interviews so take it all with a pinch of salt.

Feel free to message me if you have any specific questions. My DD dropped a grade at A Level so lost her place (sob) but she gained 4 offers post interview & her GCSE's were not all A*. It can be done!

Buckle Up though ladies.... it's a bumpy ride.

It's all luck as all our kids are more than capable of studying medicine. Mine went to a normal comp and into a huge 6th form college who gave no UKCAT help, but they did offer support by having a few Unis in to talk to kids. My DD sat UKCAT in a scummy centre in Slough and had people coming and going all the time taking their driving tests. Her pen ran out and there was no air con. On another day she could easily have got loads less. It's not an easy test and I never really understood it.
I have no idea how it relates to medicine but I suppose they have to use something to chose for interview besides GCSEs as not everyone gets a fair shot at those. Mine was lucky as she had great teachers who could manage 36 in a class, but I'm sure that's not always the case. Her smallest A level class was 22 so she is v used to having to get on with things herself and maybe that helped.
Who knows. She feels very lucky to get 4 offers as would have been thrilled with one. She's now mentoring kids in year below to offer her few words of advice - apply strategically and be yourself.

Just saw this on TSR - Meddad is a very reliable source of information if you see his posts throughout & he comes back year after year to support students on TSR. GLANFYD is another worth looking at.

"So, for the Uni's that use UKCAT as the primary ranking tool:

Sheffield - 672 last year

Manchester - interview top third of UKCAT nationally so 3rd decile fits that be ok (667 last year)

Bristol - using UKCAT only for first time this year. They say that if they had done that last year the cut off would have been 665. Of course the profile of applicants could be different this year, particularly as they have changed their criteria

Newcastle - according to their website it was 645 last year, but 667 the year before

Southampton - historically on their open days they mention 640, but I couldn't find anybody on TSR last year with an interview below 667

Glasgow - 663 last year

Plymouth - last year 600, indicating 583 on their website for 2019 entry

St Georges - between 630-650 last 3 years

Exeter - 667 last year if you also had AAA* predictions at A level"

(NB from me - if you don't have all A* predictions leave off Exeter)

Well, I think our kids are more resilient than we think!
She has booked to do driving theory test tomorrow so she is studying for it now surrounded by guitar, Disc world novel and popcorn!
Happy to see her smiling and being normal after 4 weeks of UKCAT prep!

Baytreemum - have Pm' ed you.

ProfLayton1 - they are resilient, need to be super-resilient throughout this process and can astonish us. Mine has dusted herself off, got back up and is ready to tackle her way through & back into medicine.
It's me who is still licking her wounds! (in private of course).
Good luck to your DC with that dreaded test. I think it's awful and am very glad I never had to contemplate it. AR? No idea how to do any of those.