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Fighting our way through 1st year uni (starting Sept 17)

917 replies

HSMMaCM · 17/01/2018 20:41

Continuing the previous thread.

Exams, assessments, essays, etc.

Support, or lack of it.

Will they all get accommodation for next year and can they cook a balanced meal yet.

OP posts:
user1499173618 · 23/05/2018 14:39

Other people have told me the same, Errol. I still feel for the students who, however clever, have to play catch up in first year. Tough on its own but even tougher if you have horrible accommodation or anti social flatmates!

captainofashipwreck · 23/05/2018 17:05

needmoresleep I could have written some of your post. DD not at Bristol but has had a nightmare year in uni accommodation and has spent most of the year staying with a friend to get away from the continual noise and anti-social behaviour which has actually gone on for the whole year. There does need to be some management of halls to ensure that students can actually sleep, study, cook and socialise in reasonable surroundings.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 23/05/2018 17:12

I tend to think they are all bright young people with a similar band of ability and preparation for their course even if not all going in with exactly the same grades.

I think when it comes to well-being and mental health and this horrible concern over youth suicide ( which I am so sorry to hear about) there are a lot of other factors coming into play than the academic.

I guess I hope there will be no change in contextual offers because I think widening inclusion is a good thing, and may help make Uni environments more emotionally healthy.

user1499173618 · 23/05/2018 17:18

That’s terrible, shipwreck. What have you and your DC done about tackling the university in the issue?

brizzledrizzle · 23/05/2018 17:21

My Bristol student had a lower offer, not sure as others from the same school wanting the same course didn't though. As it happened her results exceeded the standard offer but is there much difference in preparation between aaa and Aab?

user1499173618 · 23/05/2018 17:25

There might be. There can also be very significant differences in preparation between students who got identical grades, depending on the quality of the school.

Horsemad · 23/05/2018 21:22

Wow, been reading your posts about Bristol - I had no idea of the problems Sad It is very worrying.

DS doesn't talk much about uni life, just says he's ok when I ask. I know he socialises with his flatmates but avoids one of them like the plague, says 'he isn't a very nice person'.

He seems to have teamed up with a nice group of lads from his course, they spend a lot of time playing footy & board games! Am sure there is some alcohol involved too.

Meanwhile, he says a room he thought might be coming available in a mate's house now isn't, so he's going to start looking at halls...

Why he didn't just say that when I was asking what he was going to do, I don't know. Hmm

RedHelenB · 23/05/2018 22:53

Hope he gets sorted soon Horsemad. Can't believe it's only 2 weeks until I pick dd up the first year has flown! Just the small matter of exams between now and then! Look like her fellow students are setting her a good example 're.revision. sounds like she's done loads more than she did for her gcses or A levels!

user1499173618 · 24/05/2018 09:10

Horsemad - your DS has my sympathies. It’s one thing to have to rub along with people you don’t much like on your course/at school/at work. Another thing entirely when you have to share your personal space with them! Our DC had one (out of 5) flatmates in his first few weeks who was totally unhousetrained - he left his very dirty pants and socks in the bathroom after taking a shower, had no concept of washing up or putting food in the fridge and looked blankly at his flatmates when they asked him to do the basics. Fortunately the boy’s parents came to rescue him after a few weeks and he was transferred to catered accommodation.

Xenia · 24/05/2018 12:48

It is going to be interestig in the Autumn as to who does what in my twins' rented houses. They both cooked just about all their own meals here from about age 14 so knowing how to cook should not be difficult. They have been doing own washing obviously this year in halls. Let us see how much cleaning is done when they rent a house.

Errol that may be true of first year results although I was top because I was a teetoal virgin (through university) and did tons of work and in year 1 most people didn't do much work. By finals I was top in 2 subjects but other people had started getting their finger out and working by years 2 and 3 so although I was still pretty good one person got one first in our years, 2/3rds got 2/2s and about a third of us got a 2/1. So even if you were top in a subject you could still be getting 2/1s in those days. I think there are more firsts these days.

I would just be interested to see how the contextual offer people do. One of my children said that although contextual offer holders have low offers they seemed then to get very good A level results anyway s I suppose we would have to compare contextual offer holders who got in with say BBB with non contextual offer holders who got AAA in terms of how they cope and mental health etc. so see if it had any impact at all (it may not) on how they cope at university.

LittleSpace · 24/05/2018 14:13

My ds is in sixth form and has just finished the programme to get a contextual offer. Even better he can put it as an insurance choice.

A small group went on this course from his comprehensive and I can't really see them struggling at university. Maybe one but most will be fine. Remember it is quite hard to get on the Bristol contextual programme and there are multiple applicants for every place. Most of the comprehensive kids that get on it have multiple A stars at GCSE.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/05/2018 14:56

I wouldn't be surprised if many contextual offer holders do very well, once they're on the same playing field. And in terms of adjusting to uni life, some of the kids who've had an easier ride until that point may be the ones who find it harder.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 24/05/2018 17:05

I think some Uni's do more informal contextual offers depending on the situation on results day. I think we may have benefited from some generous offers due to postcode ( as turns out we live in bottom quintile for those going on to Uni. We got transport costs refunded for an open day at one Uni too)
Either that and/ or DD wrote a very good personal statement.
As some of you know she decided to go with her insurance choice anyway as by then an extra visit to the department ( on a summer project) had convinced her it was the course and place for her.
I guess I think it would probably have gone well for her with either option. And I probably found the choice harder than she did. I recognised it had to be her call and that she did have more experience for making the decision, after open days etc. than I did.

I rather agree with Errol that looking at contextual offers in regard to well-being is likely to be a bit of a red-herring. Though Universities should certainly look at anything and everything from a well-being point of view.

First year has gone really well and just had a lovely chat with her about next year's course and options which she's really looking forward to.
Apparently she's done one of her exams ( on Monday without really mentioning it! ) and has two more to go, both in June, so all nicely spaced out..
Strange to be so involved with DS GCSE's but rather removed from what's going on for DD.

She is having a brilliant time though, with summer concerts, trip to a London musical, and a Summer ball !
Looking forward to a few days with her when I pick her up for summer break in June

Xenia · 24/05/2018 17:36

Bristol's contextual offers I thought were dead easy to applyfor - you just have to be in the lower 40% of the schools in the country. I just looked up my area on it and see it even includes a single sex Catholic secondary school which I would have never put in the bad quality category but apparently so.

It is very different from the contextual offers of other places.
www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/entry-requirements-qualifications/contextual-offers/
the list if English schools which meet that require is 42 pages long www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/study/undergraduate/documents/English-aspiring-state-schools-2018-cycle.pdf

Haffdonga · 24/05/2018 17:43

There's a fair amount of research around now showing that state school pupils out-perform private school pupils who enter uni with the same grades (suggesting perhaps that the state schoolers have had to be more self-motivated to get there and are therefore better at dealing with the independent learning of a uni environment). Contextual offers are a logical response.

www.theguardian.com/education/2013/jun/16/accesstouniversity-private-schools

LittleSpace · 24/05/2018 18:19

They are easy to apply for but not everyone gets in as there are way more applicants than places.

brizzledrizzle · 24/05/2018 18:22

Bristol's contextual offers I thought were dead easy to applyfor - you just have to be in the lower 40% of the schools in the country.

There are two different types I believe - the one that you mention and these:

Access to Bristol
Insight into Bristol
Pathways to Health Sciences
Pathways to Law at the University of Bristol
Sutton Trust Summer School at the University of Bristol

which are all aimed at a different type of student I believe, there is more too it than just being at the 'lower achieving' schools.

They do contextual offers for other students too, my daughter got one despite not having taken part in any of the above programmes nor being at a bottom 40% school.

LittleSpace · 24/05/2018 18:38

I have to say they did a really impressive 'Graduation' service for parents.

All the above groups attended.

Bristol are trying really hard in this respect.

Xenia · 24/05/2018 21:29

That;s good. If 40% of schools qualify plus all those other categories is the non contextual offer person a rare breed then? porobably not quite yet. So all those posh comps and selective state schools you presumably usually would not get a contextual offer from. If students do much better who have those offers then it would make sense to exclude potential students from the top 60% of schools I suppose? I'm just playing devil's advocate here and I am not sure those from the top 60% of schools do that badly after university really.

Actually I wonder if they have statistics on the grades at A level the contextual people get because my son said they got high grades anyway despite only needing to get lower ones.

LS, so when you say easy to apply for but not everyone gets in do you mean that everyone who is in those 40% of the worst schools gets their contextual offer if they have good GCSEs and a good ucas form, good grade predictions and their offers will then be lower than say the offers my sons got? I think that must be it just as loads of people in the top 60% of schools dont' get into their preferred university I suppose.

captainofashipwreck · 24/05/2018 21:29

user - its difficult isn't it- I don't think there are many 18 year olds who feel able to complain about their housemates, either because they are frightened of being ostracised or because (very sadly) they just think this is how it is at uni and people just put up with it. The pressure to drink huge amounts of alcohol quite frequently is really sad as is the major emphasis on clubbing. Having survived the first year part of me is very sad that it has been just that -survival.

user1499173618 · 24/05/2018 21:48

shipwreck - these days, people are very unsure of what constitutes acceptable common standards. I also think that people are terrified of being perceived to be (or accused of being) snobs by requesting certain standards of hygiene/consideration for others.

I think a few more externally imposed rules might be useful. Some would see that as a return to a more authoritarian past, but well defined boundaries can be very helpful when interacting with strangers.

LittleSpace · 25/05/2018 08:12

When we went to the 'mock graduation' service there were lots of under represented groups such as ethnic minorities and a lot from the poorer comprehensives.

To qualify your child needs to fit the criteria. There are different criteria for each programme ranging from Sutton Trust to Access to Bristol. They then apply in a process akin to a job application and apparently it was very competitive. It is a good way for Bristol to gather up local bright kids who might not otherwise apply.

Then they have to attend all the sessions and do all the work. If they do all of this they get a guaranteed offer. My ds will be applying for a maths related course and will get a guaranteed offer two grades below the norm.

I seem to remember at the graduation one of the presenters said that in a competitive course like Law there might be 10 such places out of 300 held for for students on these schemes.

Needmoresleep · 25/05/2018 10:12

I had not meant to start a debate, when referring to those who had come in on contextual offers perhaps needing a bit more handholding. Not those who were given contextual offers, but those entered two grades lower than their peers.

Contextual offers are given to pupils of 40% of schools. Those that gain the lowest average A level results. This includes private schools, or schools with a very good top set but a larger bottom set. (At one point it included the school that the Beckhams sent their children too. By many accounts a nice school with good teaching, but less selective and one which more likely to take teenagers newly arrived from California.) Children from schools on the list must be tempted by Bristol. A "better" University for lower grades.

There are at least three reasons why a child might not achieve stardard grades and be reliant on a reduced grade offer.

  1. They are less well taught, or perhaps more likely, school aspirations are lower as they are focussed on the needs of the majority in a wide-ability set.
  2. The child does not put the work in
  3. The child is well taught and has pt the work in, but the contextual offer is effectively their ceiling.

The first term may be tough for any of these. A friend's daughter got the best UMS of her school in a popular humanities subject: but still a B. She is a bright hard-working girl, but she has arrived at Univesity needing to learn how to structure an essay. The first term was tough. Tutors helped as they could but essays were covered with detailed comment, and it is not easy from going from top of the year to being the one who is struggling. DC both found themselves acting as informal tutors for the maths elements of their courses, and again surprised at some of the gaps. (Though both in turn could do with recipricol help with essay structure.)

If you can help the first group to catch up and the second group to engage, they should be fine. But that first term will be tough and if this is not acknowledged and support not given, a student could well disengage, especially if their living arrangements are equally difficult.

The third group poses a different problem, and observationally this is a bigger issue for somewhere like the LSE where a proportion of hard-working overseas students, may have over-performed at A level. Luckily for a friend of DS', the third year allowed for a good range of non-maths options, a relief after two years of difficult compulsory courses. I hear that tough maths degrees like Cambridge and Warwick have established escape routes to parallel degrees for those who start to stuggle. But students who are finding the step up difficult, and this may be more apparent if your peers came in on higher grades, will need reassurance and guidance.

One of the recommendations in the recent Sutton Trust report

Is that "Universities practicing contextualisation should provide additional support to students from disadvantaged backgrounds, including those who have been admitted with lower grades, in
recognition of the additional difficulties such students may face."

There are a host of reasons why students without an existing history of MH problems may start to struggle when at University. Academics is one. Starting with a bit of headroom in tems of better grades, better numeric and literacy skills, and perhaps, without wanting to start a whole new debate, the experience and knowledge that comes from taking more than three subjects, makes that first term easier. Which is not to say the others wont catch up, and perhaps then have the advantage of greater familiarity with the library and an established work routine.

Needmoresleep · 25/05/2018 10:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn - duplicate post.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/05/2018 10:39

Debates start on 'support' threads when someone raises an interesting topic others want to discuss, which this is. Good post - not sure I've anything to add to it!

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