Medicine 2018 part 2

[LoniceraJaponica]

New thread here

Typed a message earlier but it didn’t post 😠
Professor Layton we used the 1000 question book and then medify. My DS was really stressed by the UKCAT initially but he said medify was invaluable in practising. He did one of the official Pearson tests in the beginning and then saved the rest for the final week. We paid I think about £40 for 4 weeks before the exam (which he did at start of August). Medify must have worked as he went from getting around 2400 to over 2950. He also used the tips we found on TSR and medic portal.
Final tip would be to do test earlier - many of DS’s friends left it until September and they found it hard as had to juggle prep with PS writing, open days and A levels

Oops just discovered it did post - sorry for writing it again!!

I hate saying this as it's not how it should be but you can write a beautiful answer but if the required words aren't in it I can't give it a mark
It is no different to applying to a job and matching the application to the required skills/experience! That's what I told DD, she might as well get used to it. It is indeed why she struggled last year and why her teachers were frustrated on her behalf because they knew from lessons that she understood it all perfectly, but she didn't know how to show it in the right manner on exam papers. Her teachers have been fantastic and have spent the time to get her to apply the right technique, hence going from a B level to an A* even though her learning has been no different.

Still feeling anxious though as her exams' results have not been consistent. She performed much better on her GCSE mocks in February than she did on the actual thing, but as she said, she was bored by then and wrongly overly confident, and this was a big lesson for her.

Just thought back and indeed, it's Medify DD signed up to practice for the UKCAT which allowed mock tests under time constraint. Just one piece of advice that comes to mind is to reassure your DC if they panic when they first look at it. That's a common feeling and it really really gets better with practice. Some tsr posters went from hardly answering one question right to smashing it on the day with daily practice for about 4-6 weeks prior to it.

Professor, more of less same for DD, bought the book off a friend in the year above (who had abandoned Medicine :( ), plus the online course with Medic Portal, others seem similar. Not sure how much practise she did! She found non verbal the hardest to get used to - marks on the day were in the top third which worked for her choices.

Chemistry is known to be a tough leap, DD enjoys most of it but finds the organic side is about memorising lots of formula ?... don't quote me as I didn't study chemistry..! I think she has left if quite late to discover quite how much she needs to know by heart. We can tell them time and time again, revise from the very start of sixth form, but very few listen - some last minute realisation before mocks in upper sixth helps too!

In terms of chemistry help - I think CGP books excellent. Just got physics one for my DS which is his nemesis and he said it is really useful. They take all the ‘fluff’ away and there are lots of practice questions.

haha MM, no harm with reading the advice twice!

Another thing that you need to consider as to when to take the UKCAT is whether they will take the BMAT too and if so when. Last year was the first time it could be taken early September, ie. before UCAS deadline. I don't think this was well known and didn't get that high take up (but maybe I'm wrong).

DD did take it then and did much better than expected. It has its benefits and disadvantage though. There is no flexibility with the test date unlike the UKCAT, so DD took it only 3 weeks after her UKCAT. She had not anticipated how drained she would feel after taking the UKCAT and found it very hard to switch to revising for the BMAT and indeed, hardly looked at it the first week. It's only afterwards that she admitted to me that she'd done limited revising for it. Whether she would have done better if taken in November, I'm not sure though. She was still in exam mode with the brain ticking and I think that compensated for the reduced revising.

The main benefit was of course that once she'd done it, it was all over and she could concentrate on her studies and preparing for interviews. In terms of whether it helps in terms of deciding whether to apply to a BMAT uni, I'm not. Going by tsr, most seem to have found it very hard this year and indeed, the average was lower than last year. It could therefore be counter-productive, resulting in opting out of a BMAT uni with competitive results.

But do not worry because according to a certain person on the other thread, all this consideration is just a waste of energy!

ProfessorLayton one of my DCs who was in the first cohort of new chemistry A level scored top marks in chemistry right through Y12 and Y13 including A level. This DC is not a perfectionist and is a focussed rather than hard worker.
According to this DC, being a mathematician helped (problem solving skills) but it is mainly about understanding and providing what the question wants and not worrying about the rest.

Every year when I mark medical students' I exams I can give the same full marks to short pithy answers as to lengthy detailed ones as long as what is required for the marking scheme is supplied.

Ours did the UKCAT in the middle of Aug and the BMAT in Sept. This was to stop him working the BMAT obsessively all the way to Nov, rather than doing normal work. It also means you know before you apply.
There was a distinct fall off in interest after the UKCAT which he self recognised, and the result was not anywhere near as good except in the essay. The BMAT was only ever going to be used for Leeds, and we knew that unless it was really bad it should be OK.
If you are going to apply to Oxbridge or Imperial you need to think this through more, because you should be targetting 5.5 to 6. That means either November or possibly putting a bigger space between the two tests maybe. It goes without saying that practice dramatically improves your score. He used Medify for UKCAT, and had a book and looked at BMAT papers.
We have got the Leeds feedback and I was suprised to see his distinctly average BMAT got him 4/5 points. He totally nailed the PS, which is way more important for getting an interview (triple the points). Leeds is tough going for both interview and offer but the BMAT seems to play little part in it.

I regret getting drawn into the other thread. A medical school application was difficult for DD, not because she was less able than her peers who went onto Oxbridge/London but because a) she is dyslexic with impressively low processing speeds and b) because she had a serious accident just before starting yr13. Hence her yr 13 application had to be a trial run. This may be all my fault as an over involved mum but I would do the same again.

I agree that a child who is good at CATs is more likely to be good at UKCAT. DD was poor at both and disterous at grammar 11+. As well as being a test of things like ability to do percentages, UKCAT is a speed test.

If you find the test hard it may well be worth doing a commercial course to help with methods. DD was surprised at how many on her course struggled with some types of questions. If like her it was mainly a question of timing, then sign up for one of the on-line courses and practice till you get faster. (BMAT is supposed to be easier for those with slow processing. The trouble with UKCAT is that it requires speed and concentration. Everyone was brain dead by the end of normal time so though she got extra she could not really use it.)

Practice does help. One very motivated boy we know did an hour a day for six months and ended up in the top 2nd percentile. But DD was never going to do that and preferred to use those hours being a teenager expanding her PS. I agree about taking the test in the summer. DD had a week off after AS levels, then three weeks for UKCAT (not very intensively- but perhaps she shoukd have done more) then family holiday, followed by PS drafting. But private school so longer holidays. Preparing for early BMAT will make things tight.

I have abandoned the other thread .Just a thought re the UkCAT , There is such a thing as UKCAT SEN which allows extra time .No experience of how you go about getting it but I would have thought it would be a reasonable adjustment for dyslexia .

Sorry , having read properly I see you were aware and I agree it doesn’t make it a fair playing field re processing time.

In terms of chemistry help - I think CGP books excellent.
I've just walked in DD's room and noticed that was the one next to her on the her bed :)

Herodshelper, it looks like our DC took a similar approach to the UKCAT/BMAT exams. Just one think to point out is that the September testing date is not an option for Oxford admission unless it's for graduate entry. Cambridge does accept it.

Also the great thing about the UKCAT is that you can change the date of the exam after registering, more than once I think for free. The only thing is though is the longer it is pushed back, the less the option of date/venue. The BMAT is the September or November date (October this year, 31st!).

Another thought looking back at the process: the PS. DD spent massive amount of time on it. It got dissected so many times, at the end, she couldn't stand what she'd written any longer! The main reason is that she assumed that her GCSEs/BMAT/UKCAT were not optimal and that she would sell herself with the PS as her strength was her experience. As it is, it's been a complete waste of time as the only school that would have read it is Bristol and she didn't get an interview there in the end even though her PS was specifically targeted for Bristol! St George says that the interview is geared around it but they don't read it, and DD didn't feel that this was the case. Manchester asks for their own personal statement and even though it is the same theme, you couldn't just copy and paste the PS. Again, no real indication that it had been read before interview (might have helped for offers? Not sure) and Brighton don't read them at all at any part of the process!

No regrets of course but it's interesting to see what really mattered most in the end, and in DD's case, it was her UKCAT and BMAT scores (automatic interviews to 3 out of 4) and then interviewing skills. The rest, including the extend of her experience, didn't count at all. She didn't even at any stage mention her week shadowing at the hospital even though it was an amazing experience that had a real impact on her, nor her 4 days experience at two GP surgeries (much less of an impact).

Everyone's experience is very individual, with an undeniable element of luck.

Sheffield do not use PS at all - it's all about UKCAT once you meet minimum requirements. Make certain you meet them - each Uni is different.

BMAT. - we entered for Sept but withdrew with full refund in Aug. By then we knew what UKCAT & decided that we didn't fancy any BMAT Uni's enough to bother. I'd suggest entering & thinking later.

DD. Did 3 solid weeks UKCAT practise post AS. Much more & I think she would have lost the will. Then we went on holiday, surgery & then start BMAT if she'd blown UKCAT. As it was a quite good score we pulled out of BMAT.

Yes you can change the date of your UKCAT up to 3 times I think without charge but I'd get it done before you go back to school. Once you know your score (as you leave exam) you can spend more time considering which Uni's are feasible, visiting them & concentrating on finishing PS & Yr 13. I wouldn't change the way we did it. Worked for us.

UKCAT score traditionally lower in the second half (hence interim reported scores were higher and then fell by +20 points) Those who go earlier tend to do better than the procrastinators.

Very useful replies, thanks.

Mulling as someone who is a small cog in the giant machine that is our admissions process... we struggle to get enough interviewers as things are. I'm surprised any school weights PS heavily; that they have resources to do that AND do interviews.

Nottingham and Liverpool use PS as part of their scoring process. Southampton say they don't but think they might look - old fashioned group and panel interviews rather than MMI. Applying strategically is so important in getting interviews and then it seems to be just be yourself. My unassuming DD from v normal state 6th form (via a normal comp) had no training or courses. Was just honest and did her best. They seem to have liked it.

Nottingham and Liverpool use PS as part of their scoring process. Southampton say they don't but think they might look - old fashioned group and panel interviews rather than MMI. Applying strategically is so important in getting interviews and then it seems to be just be yourself. My unassuming DD from v normal state 6th form (via a normal comp) had no training or courses. Was just honest and did her best. They seem to have liked it.

Whoops 🤪. Too much St Paddy's day spirit last night 😜

Just popping on to your thread to congratulate you and your medic children for getting this far. I was in your shoes two years ago (hello sluj ) and remember what a long road it is.

Getting an offer is a fantastic achievement but I remember the stress of my DC then worrying about getting the grades. In case it's of use I can confirm from the experiences of my DC and DN that it is possible to drop a grade and still get in. Cardiff, UCL and Newcastle have accepted a B grade ( one in Chemistry) in 2016 and 2017. I'm sure they'll be fine but post this in case of any 'disaster' during exam time.

My DD (1st year) found that medify for a month's access was good for the UKCAT, my other DC and DN (3rd and 4th year) just used a book. They both did it early in the Summer hols to avoid over-practising (and ruining their Summers).
Both my DC found BMAT harder than UKCAT but ended up at BMAT schools and are loving it. They used student room to put together a list of which school looks for what. DD did not like MMI interviews, both wanted dissection etc.
I don't really post on medic threads as they usually degenerate when a particular poster, whose only medic DC applied back in 2011 (diff name then) inevitably dispense and defend their version of med school wisdom year in year out to new groups of unsuspecting medic mums like a dog with a bone, it's a shame they change the tone of friendly supportive threads.
I think that med school admissions have evolved significantly since then in any case with the increase in MMIs, widening participation, more BMAT schools and being able to find out your BMAT mark before you apply.

My own DC and DN did not have perfect grades or applications and I agree that careful research and applying to schools which select on your strengths is the key to success.

My next DC is not interested in medicine so I'm looking forward to a much more relaxed UCAS cycle next year. I'm happy to share my experience if you have any questions.

Hang on in there!

Hello Lessstressy & thanks for that info. I do keep hearing that it's not necessarily a disaster if you drop a grade (at least not at the Uni's we've applied to) though DD is working hard to help make sure that doesn't happen. She's even cross about snow today - says she can't afford to miss another day off school - NEVER thought I'd hear her say that!

I've been chuckling to myself today reading MumsNet posts - extra time on my hands as snowed in - realising that just by reading posts you can tell whether you'd like someone in real life or not.

Great Offer Day at Leicester yesterday. Really impressed by everything we saw & everyone we met.

Well said movingmountains I agree.

Thank you for popping in Lessstessy and for your helpful post. Glad to hear everyone enjoying offer holders visits😀. I have wanted to become a student at every uni I have visited for each child and dd is no. 3!

I hope the snow clears for all soon, the garden centre has been a little quiet😆 especially like on like for business compared with last year.

I took a peak at ‘the other thread’, posted about sport at uni. and left. I do know quite a lot about high level uni sport - which is laughable when I was the girl who never got picked for even the thirds at netball. My old PE teacher would either laugh or collapse in disbelief if I had looked into the future and said I had produced a sportsmad child (ds2). I did love Biology but my school only talked about nursing for girls - good to know that wouldn’t happen now.

Whatever may or may not have been said on the ‘other thread’ I know my parents hugely impacted my choices - negatively in my case - so I was determined to support my 3 and never have them say to me ‘but you wouldn’t let me choose’. The fall outs I had with my parents are still fresh in my mind ....,

Fingers crossed for more offers and those still with interviews. DD’s friend and headgirl has recently got two offers after two rejections - so pleased for her.

I apologise for the snow. When my DD has an interview it always snows. In fact tomorrow's is rescheduled because of previous snow. Hopefully as this is her last one we are done with snow this year 😂😂. That other thread was weird ! DD now trying to decide whether to go to Notts Open day (now has a place) or go to lessons. Are they really necessary if you've done an open day and tour after interview ? She's worried she's missed so many days for interviews.

My daughter didn’t go to any offer holder days. It didn’t seem to be a problem when she started.

Thank you lesstresssy for your post. Can't believe you went through it twice with your own children and more family members. No kidding you're less stressed now!

Mumneedswine that's the interview at Southampton? Can't believe snow is getting in the way again! Hopefully the roads will be clear this time. Good luck to your DD tomorrow.