UCL- is it really that bad?

[cornwall1900]

Hello.

Dd is considering UCL, the course suits her perfectly and excites her, so there's that aspect sorted.

All I've heard are negative things about UCL; "my ds dropped out", "anti social","hard to make friend as the student body is so dispersed", "internationals keep to themselves". Of course I fully accept that these are merely anecdotal and variying.

The cost really worries us, she'd likely have to work. I'd like her to enjoy her college experience like I did and not become in essence a working adult just yet. It just doesn't seem to be a lot of fun to me, compared to cheaper northern cities.

I'm also worried how a country girl like her will deal with city living in what to me as a rural girl seems a cold place to live.

How have your dc found UCL?

I do hope I'm worrying over nothing.

There is a lot of discussion about how expensive London is for students but most non-Londoner parents are unsure of how much more. For those who have present or recent experience of students in London at places like UCL, LSE, Imperial etc, it would be really useful to have your estimates for how much is needed for say a second year student (so no longer in university accommodation) not to have to work and have a similar standard of living to eg Manchester or Edinburgh. Let us exclude Oxbridge and St Andrews . That would include occasional night outs, flat or house share (in a reasonable location less than 40 minutes commuting, not a room share) plus transport.

40 minutes commuting is considered "reasonable"? Mine had commutes of about 20 min on foot or 5-10 min by bike.

Senua I think 20 minutes walk is likely to result in a compromise on accommodation in London unless super rich or lucky as a student.

But Senua , isn't that rather the point? So ( and this is not directed at you as I have no idea where your DC(s) were at University) as an example , I personally , and I think DS, would have hated a campus university. I have friends and DS certainly does , for whom that is absolutely what they want, and they love it. For context , 40 mins - rough estimate 2 min per tube stop and 2 min per change + walking door to door. Gives some idea of the range Send is talking about for out of college accommodation. Would not suit everyone , but if all else works , and the atmosphere is congenial , would that stop you for a year ? If it would , then , yes , don't go. Again Senua , that was not personally directed at you.

I think that is an excellent question Send , if nothing else it may help people to decide whether a) yep , London unaffordable , or b) well , given a following wind it may be doable. I will ask DS to ask one of his friends what they are budgeting for out of college accommodation for 2nd year and post back if he gets an answer. I also agree with (I think it was Ron) that accommodation & wandering into the Ritz for a beer aside many of the other costs may not be as different from other places as one might think.

Second year flats: Just a brief look on Rightmove student lets will show you that there is reasonable choice at £200 per week but less at £150 per week per student. The lower the amount, the further out you may be but I did see a few that were quite ok for £150 per week. On top of that there are the usual expenses of which travel will be higher then other cities because the student will be further from the university. Checks also need to be made on whether the rental is for a full year and normally it is. Plus all bills. That could be £750 a month minimum for accommodation and travel. Then add on the usual expenses such as going out, books, food, clothes, phone, etc and it adds up to nearer £1000 a month. If you take a property at £200'a week PP, and plenty are this, then costs are more. Spending less than £150 a week PP for rent in London could be a challenge but no doubt some people achieve it!

This seems expensive in comparison to, say, Bristol, and depends very much on what the individual student wants to do with regard to going out and food.

Helpful info bojorojo and potential info Basilisk. I would also think that food and going out may not be much different to most places although the alcohol could be less heavily subsidised than in some university student bars outside London.
I know of students who have enjoyed life in London but they all seem to come from affluent British or international families.

That sounds like a lot Bojo. Is this because your DD was studying at Imperial? I am a landlord and rent a four double bedroom house, in a nice part of SE London in a nice street probably 30 minutes from LSE, for £550 per person pm. I don't let to students because experience suggests they would move a fifth person into the living room, bringing the rent down to just over £100 per week each. Many landlords would not mind. Whilst most students would be looking further downmarket/cheaper: edgier area/flat above shop/ex council etc.

DS pays more. About £180 a week. However he is seven minutes walk from LSE, so does not pay fares. He gets about £3,000 a year for living, which he manages on without a problem. Living close means that he and his flatmates can cook either individually or together which also keeps costs down. He says his course mates are divided pretty equally between those who study in the library or at home. He is one of the former, so being close suits. It also means that he has easy access to campus/cheap social life.

In practice it depends on priorities. DS took up a vacant room in an established flat with people he knew. He knew it was expensive (and it seriously is, more than most will pay) but his priority was to be near college and with people who he liked and who studied hard. He is content not to access wider London nightlife (which would be expensive) and has chosen not to work, though plenty do. (He was asked to do some A level tutoring, but did not seek further work once the first pupil had gone.) However he had a reasonably well paid internship last summer, and is likely to do some research assistant work this, money he has used to pay for holidays.

I think Ron is right. If you are prepared to work, say, Saturday evenings, you should be able to earn enough to fund the gap in rent. Indeed our waiter at a rather smart restaurant a few weeks back was a student at KCL.

London rents are insane. A decent two bedroom flat a 40 minute - 1 hour commute into central London (depending on where you're going and including a 15-20 min walk to the tube station as that makes rent cheaper) is around £1400-1500 per month. Horrible accommodation sharing with more people will be cheaper. I paid £550-600 per person but that was a few years ago now...

No DD was not at Imperial. These are up to date rents on Rightmove listed as student properties.
To give some context with other areas, £120 pp per week would give you a room in a pleasant student flat in Clifton in Bristol where you could virtually fall out of bed and get to lectures. £180 pp per week is in the middle of the prices on Rightmove for London and some flats were ex council at £150 per week in the suburbs. A 30 minute commute is fairly substantial and only done by students in London and £550 is still a lot more then many flats in other university cities plus transport costs. £180 per week is £9360 pa ( forgive my maths if this is incorrect) and this, coupled with bills, food, transport etc, pushes the cost of living higher than elsewhere. It is just a fact. If students want to work because their parents cannot afford these costs, that is up to them, but not everyone is at LSE and other students may find getting paid internships very difficult. Arts students for example.

Everywhere else I can think of has cheaper accommodation much nearer to the universities. I think this does illustrate the difference in costs - it is at least £60 a week more expensive in London. In some university cities the accommodation near the university would be £100 pp per week, not £120, making the gap pretty wide. London has a lot to offer, but not good value housing.

In comparison, my DDs are paying approx £100 per week incl bills in 2 northern cities and are both 10-15 minutes walk away from their lectures. They could have gone for cheaper houses but wanted to be close to their unis so they don't need bus passes and they also chose nice(ish) houses.

Send I have posted this already. I have two DDs, one in London, one in a northern city. Their accommodation has been similar, shared houses, basic but with IKEA furniture, dishwashers, washing machines etc. (A lot better than my student houses) though DD in the Northern city is in a student area where 2 in 3 houses are let to students whilst in London they were on main roads or on Council estates. Rent in London was most recently, £650 per month (but rents are currently falling) and in the north £450, both are for a full year. The London properties are not as strictly aimed at the student market so you do take up the rental in September ( no need to secure a property in the previous Autumn, you look in the Summer) . The London house was used through the holidays because they had holiday jobbs / internships etc. , the Northern house was empty.

The Northern house is a 20 minute walk from uni and the London houses were all in north London, typically UCL students would live in Camden, Holloway, Finchley, and travel to uni by bus or bike (both around 20 -30 minutes) (tube would be regarded as unnecessary additional expense)

I do not know of any students anywhere who do not have additional financial support from parents that can survive without working. I am sure it is possible but it would mean missing out on a full student social life. In the northern city this means working required shifts in Weatherspoons, Giraffe or similar in evenings and weekends. In London it is more fluid, with students being able to pick up bar, restaurant and promotional work when they need it with higher per hour pay rates, there is a loose network that communicates the opportunities. For instance at one stage DD and all her flat mates worked a late shift at weekends in a dessert bar before they went out and as I previously said if you are STEM graduate then in London tutoring can be very lucrative especially if you are familiar with or bone up on the selective entry tests for private and Grammar Schools at 11 and 13 as well as GCSE etc and you might only need 1 or 2 hours per week.

Currently the London housing market is at the beginning of a fall, all the indications are that it will be prolonged

I do think going out can be more expensive in London because fewer establishments have student nights. Student pricing is a whole industry elsewhere! Everything is more money in London! I personally know of UCL students who have been much further North than the areas mentioned above and find they are very much in a non student area. If you want a pleasant road and not on a main road or ex council (although some of these are spacious and well located) you will definitely need to budget in excess of £175 pp per week. Also, do not forget that in London the halls of residence cost more for the equivalent in a northern city and many are £8000 pa. They are not much different to flats on the open market in second year. Plenty are more than this. I don't know the cost of the new Imperial College high rise at South Acton, but I bet it won't be much less than £10,000. Working whilst studying at Imperial is quite an ask for a young person. This is why so many students are well off!

Apologies - it's North Acton. However, I am now cross! My DD was at a hall of residence in North Acton but attended another university. Her room, with that university, is curently advertised at £189 per week. Imperial have the same hall and the identical room with them is £131. What the ....!!!!??? Clearly Imperial subsidise! Also they offer 39 weeks and we had 52! Water under the bridge now but unbelievable difference! The new building is similar so Imperial help students a great deal! Lucky them.

So whatwouldrondo how much did your DD in London budget actuallyy spend a month with other costs included in addition to rent from her second year compared to your DD up North?

bojorojo that is a big difference between London universities if the halls are very similar. Nothing that can be done about it though sadly.

send Both my DDs live on the maintenance grant whilst we pay their rent (I think that is a fairly common model for parental support) They both seem to motor through it at the same pace though one is a spender by nature and the other hates shopping, but then the spender worked when she could and the other has savings to fall back on. Both share flats with students who do not have parental support so that means they share a lifestyle that they can all afford, and it seems a fairly similar lifestyle in terms of both diet (mainly healthy home cooked) and nightlife (cheap student nights during the week ) except that my Dad in London did more in terms of theatre, secret cinema, exhibitions etc. .

DD!

send: it is the same Hall!!! It's the identical room! The Costume Store at North Acton. That is just not fair. Plenty at DDs university were struggling to pay for this hall and only a couple of halls were cheaper and they were quite a long way from the university. She has graduated now but surely we didn't subsidise students from another university?

Thanks whatwouldrondo
So (assuming that you mean full maintenance grant) your London DD needs £1187 per year plus money from working and does not use the tube.
Your DD at a Northern university needs £2000 less and does not work or have to use transport to commute but goes out less.

bojorojo lucky Imperial students (relatively). That is rather like going on holiday and finding out that everybody else is on a special deal.

I would be very irritated as well though and it is definitely worth highlighting here.

I wonder if the accommodation is Imperial owned and the other university part renting from them??

It is outsourced regarding running it. Not sure who owns it but I had no idea when DD was there that students from another university were in the hall. Obviously DD was with people from her university and didn't meet anyone else. It is just around the corner from the new hall for Imperial at North Acton so I am surprised they have rooms in The Costume Store as well. Water under the bridge now but when DD applied for halls 4 years ago, her university had nothing under £7000 pa.

My DS1 was at UCL, graduated in 2014.

He had just under £5000 for a student loan which covered his accommodation. We gave him £50 a month which covered all his living expenses.

I really don't get why people think London is expensive for students. There is so much available within walking distance, and Sainsbury's charge the same for food. I think it's a provincial myth.

DS2 was a Bristol and he cost us a fortune. DD1 is at another London University and, again, she is fine on £50 a month for us.

The monster cost is DD2 going to Edinburgh. We will have to pay her accommodation for her, and then she can use her loan for living expenses.

So did ask one of DS's friends and he said it is too early to say - I think they can't / do not need to get their accommodation as soon as others. They will look more towards end of next term.

I found this ( just a link)
Does this look expensive compared to other universities ?
www.ucl.ac.uk/staff/items/eating.html

Bizzy I am find it admirable that your DD1 is in London presently managing on £5600 for everything.
Even the cheapest accommodation for Imperial student halls (using these as are from what Bojorojo says most likely to be subsidised) in North Acton is £100 for a twin room without food.
That leaves £44 per week for everything else assuming this only covers 39 weeks of the year (and you pay for it all the rest of the time).

Basilisk looks pretty cheap to me