UCL- is it really that bad?

[cornwall1900]

Hello.

Dd is considering UCL, the course suits her perfectly and excites her, so there's that aspect sorted.

All I've heard are negative things about UCL; "my ds dropped out", "anti social","hard to make friend as the student body is so dispersed", "internationals keep to themselves". Of course I fully accept that these are merely anecdotal and variying.

The cost really worries us, she'd likely have to work. I'd like her to enjoy her college experience like I did and not become in essence a working adult just yet. It just doesn't seem to be a lot of fun to me, compared to cheaper northern cities.

I'm also worried how a country girl like her will deal with city living in what to me as a rural girl seems a cold place to live.

How have your dc found UCL?

I do hope I'm worrying over nothing.

Borojo, if your daughter is able to live in a modern flat in Zone 1, she is earning more than most recent graduates. Really.

(And possibly why new, grimy but lively areas of London keep popping up, attracting people on low salaries. Was Dalston and Hoxton, but the bankers have started to take over, so people have moved on to Peckham and dodgier bits of Hackney.)

Love this thread: UCL or Oxbridge because the rest are scummy under achieving bollocks.

Tiger, there is a huge difference between diverse and non white.

DD was put off one Medical school because the Open Day was very dominated by extended families from a single ethnic group. Open days are not necessarily representative of the student population, but her concern was that she might not find "her place", not helped by the fact there was very little information on non-academic activities. Instead the talks seemed mainly directed at parents, stressing that the school was "more academic than Cambridge" She wanted a more balanced student experience. To some extent I share her concern, not least after spotting a group of about 20 medical students at a London teaching hospital, and noting the boys were in the centre of the group where they could hear and see what was going on, and the girls were at the periphery. In my day, long ago, at the LSE there were a number of very wealthy Iranians (pre-revolution) and Greeks, who seemed unused to women contributing to class discussion. Difficult for the small number of women on my course, but manageable in part because there was such a mix, and other nationalities (including Iraqis and Pakistanis) did not have the same problems. I would hate to think that things have gone backwards, but fear in some places they may have.

DDs school was very diverse, indeed I heard one Australian parent complain that it was too "British". She would like the same at University. DS loves LSE. His course is 30% British, though only 10-20% white British, but this makes not one jot of difference. He did, though, get appointed as the equalities officer for one society because he was one of the only, perhaps the only, Brit.

Depending on course, but given UCL is ranked 15th on the Times World University list, there will be students from all over. This represents a massive opportunity for good students. And if you are happy to mix and make friends with people from other backgrounds, you will find find others who are equally willing.

"UCL or Oxbridge because the rest are scummy under achieving bollocks." - I haven't seen any mention of Oxbridge other a couple of tongue in cheek comments and the OP did ask about UCL.

If the OP is still reading, I went a long time ago and loved it. DS has friends there and they are having a fantastic time. The cost needs to be thought about. However, it is big and diverse enough ( in students and subjects ) that I am not sure that a DC who would not otherwise make friends anywhere else would not at UCL. Many are in halls in first year and will meet a wide range of people from which they can choose who to get a flat with in Yr2 ( like anywhere else). The UCL accommodation is expensive but not as much so as some of the intercollegiate private halls ( which can be very very - er very - expensive.) Also, whilst it a big university , there will be a focus on your own department / hall , at least initially , so the people you come into contact with are a subset. And then there's the Union, which thrives. I am probably biased , but it's a bit like when people say they couldn't live in London because it's too big. Well, it's often said London is a collection of villages and to some extent I think UCL is probably the same.

But great as I think it is , I can see it isn't for everyone. And there is something to be said ( even if you think you will end up working in London) living somewhere else first. If your DD's other choice is St Andrews , then they (from what I read - I do not know St Andrews at all ) are so different , I am pretty sure if she has visited she must have an inkling which one will suit her as a place to live. And also ( simply from having read it , not experience ) I believe St Andrews is not cheap either especially for non university owned accommodation.

Ah well - I suspect that was a couple of minutes typing I won't get back , but if you are still there OP , just some random thoughts.

I visited some relatives in their new-to-them London house not many years ago. Both yopro, both very well paid. Their house was not in an area I'd like to live in.

Yopros in London generally live in areas that are not great because the rents are so ridiculous. Students can end up sharing rooms after their first year unless their parents can subsidise them.

Tutoring work is not so easy to find, other student jobs are not well paid.

A friend's child dropped out of UCL and went to a different uni the following year. He has now graduated. His experience was one of the reasons my child was discouraged from being an undergrad in London.

Already Not a single one of DD's peers shared a room after first year, not actually heard of any who did in first year.

Of course other jobs don't pay as well as tutoring at £50 per hour though DD as a Scientist had no problem picking up Maths tutoring that fitted in with her very intensive course when she wanted it. However none of her friends had problems getting casual work in the West end hospitality industry / promotional work when they needed it which whilst not as well paid was better paid and more freely and flexibly available than my other DD and her friends are finding in a northern city.

As I have said before London is different and not for everyone but it actually has some positives for many and the availability of this sort of work is definitely one of them, this determined misinformation to support negative prejudices is not helpful.

Oh and if OP is around and has some positive prejudices about St Andrews then I suggest she searches the threads on private accommodation in St Andrews and the associated traumas. DD very grateful she decided against it having heard the experiences of her peers.

very intensive course ... £50 per hour

Doesn't that sort of sum up the London experience? - work lots to earn lots to pay lots in rent. Round and round in a circle. As you say, Ron, it suits some but it wouldn't suit me or mine. They enjoyed a more laid-back student life (and gap years) before joining the inevitable treadmill.
YOLO!

Senua Nat Sci is intensive wherever you do it. She had plenty of friends doing humanities who had a more "laid back" experience and I know plenty of students without parental support having a far tougher time dancing to the tune of Weatherspoons and the like to find their student life in even the cheapest northern cities. That sounds like a very entitled complacent attitude from their perspective...

My husband went to UCL and loved it. He doesn't stop going on about, the parties, living in halls etc and now, in his 30s he is still in touch with everyone, even the international crew.

The university itself is highly respected and ranks within the top 5 in the world (if I remember correctly) and everyone we know that has been to UCL has gone on to do really well in their chosen careers.

humanities - tick
evidence of working on their CV dancing to the tune of Spoons - tick
cheap city - tick
fun times - tick
enjoyed the learning experience - tick
a 2i from an RG - tick

They made some good choices.

Nicotina, I'm curious. Why would you not expect positive posts about UCL on a thread entitled "UCL - is it really that bad?"

I was in Bloomsbury yesterday in the sunshine, passing old student haunts. Simple really. It was a great place to be a student.

The average London graduate starting salary is £29,000. That means 50% of graduates get more than this and some get £10,000 plus more than this. That means quite a lot can afford where my DD is in Zone 1 and the fact that the flats were advertised for a nano second and taken by the first person to view does show the market is buoyant and that young people do earn enough to pay the rents. Obviously 50% may not but that is because some sectors pay less, e.g. Charities, arts etc. My DD does share a flat but not a shabby grimy one. Some people grow out of that life! Her talents mean she is able to earn enough and values a 15 minute door to door commute and good transport links nearby for frequent work commitments out of London. She is clearly one of thousands doing exactly the same.

You may be confusing average with median?!

Other way round Need? I'd be surprised if the mean starting salary for graduates was as high as £29k, but even more so if it was the median. (Though I don't know many stem and banker graduates, so perhaps my expectations are lower than the reality!)

117, you may be right. DS is studying econometrics, not me.

However I think Borojo's statement that if an average graduate starting salary is £29,000, 50% will earn more, is inaccurate. Borojo's daughter is a lawyer. Even a decade ago I met a lawyer who told me starting salaries at her firm were £80,000, and I know similar in not unusual in banking. Not much help for those, like my DC, who aspire to working in the public sector. But then they would not expect to rent a modern Zone 1 apartment either.

I accept not everyone enjoys London, however would argue it is worth considering living here for a few years when you are young. And that University is as good a time as any. I love it, even if it meant being broke for many many years. I suspect Senua and I are destined never to meet!

I suspect Senua and I are destined never to meet!

You never know. I do make it down to London about once a decade but, considering their latest mutterings about diesel cars, perhaps not.

Aha - yes, 50% above and 50% below would indeed be the median, you are absolutely right! But I was surprised that so many grads would start on more than 29k. Trainee lawyers in commercial firms, yes.

Entirely agree with you that it is horses for courses - London will suit some but not others. In some ways 'campus life' can be very intense - for some it might even be an advantage to be more spread out across the city.

Ah Senua, perhaps you can treat me to lunch and I can take you on a tour (by Boris Bike - definitely not diesel car, air quality in London is a huge problem, indeed one good reason not to study here. )

I'm a fifth generation Londoner, who studied in London, which may or may not make explain my bias. This year, faced with an empty nest, DH have made it a project to follow a small south coast football club (the town my mum lives in) around its away fixtures. Hull (culture obvs), Stoke (Emma Bridgewater is worth a visit), West Bromwich (great curry), Burnley (great pies) Sunderland, Middlesborough etc. It has bee interesting. The south is different. What I can say is that whilst you might grow out of a campus or small town (St Andrews, with a nod to OP) springs to mind, I think you grow into a London University. Third year is best because you know your way around, are on top of living her and can appreciate the opportunities.

And 117, glad I remember some maths from all those years ago. Lots of grads don't earn much. I am in a curious position of having two neighbours whose DC recently graduated from Oxbridge. Both are trying to do arty things. One has recently moved home as he can't deal with the rented hovels his friends are living in. The other made the Evening Standard's 30 under 30 list of people to watch and is on his way to being a household name.

Back to the subject. Overseas students choose UCL because it is an excellent University delivering a World Class education, so worth the extra investment. For various reasons some British students may not want to live in London, but if they have the chance they should at least consider it.

some of the positive stories are from some time back - this is what the Standard said last year about London rents and it hasn't improved since then www.standard.co.uk/news/london/londoners-now-spending-two-thirds-of-average-income-on-rent-a3154141.html Look on some of the sites where people advertise accommodation and you'll find plenty of room shares.

My child currently has several friends in London. Those who work do not have tutoring jobs. They can work in the entertainment industry and some do bank NHS work. If they lived elsewhere in the country fewer would need to work since all bar one also receive parental support. I am quite concerned about the one who doesnt have that support. Tutoring work is now more likely to be a top up for teachers struggling with London rents.

Yes St Andrews does also have a considerable accommodation problem although as it happens I know someone with 2 children there and apparently they cope. There are many other universities around the country, it isnt only North and London.

A lot of graduates will have to be in London at some stage in their career, they dont need to struggle through their undergrad years.

Could you invite me for lunch Needmore? (I do not mean that) ,

My only point is that (and I move on from the OP here ) I can see that they ( London Universities) are expensive . However , the better universities in London are good. They are aspirational universities for some of my DS's friends, - so LSE , UCL , Imperial. But more expensive and they have to think about about living in the capital. By and large , they have and it works .

What I would say is that there are ( so obviously ) so very many other good universities and courses elsewhere, I respond to this because the Op asked about UCL. Of course there are other great universities - does it need to be said ? BTW - DH was a Maths graduate and not only that , Bristol, so neither UCL , Northern nor Oxbridge. Should I LTB

Personally I would not have wanted to go to university in London. Especially now. It will be no fun at all.

I should add that, perhaps obviously, I now live in London and I studied in both a Northern City and London. London is no fun if you are skint. And students shouldn't have to work too much as it detracts from their university experience. Plenty of time for the daily grind! Study somewhere cheap and cheerful!

The whole point I am making is that students without parental resources have to work to support their studies wherever they go and, in spite of the more expensive rent costs, that is easier, better paid, more flexible, in London . DDs friends in that position had a more relaxed time of it than my other DDs friends in a northern city who need to work more hours and with less flexibility. Student life in London is, like student life elsewhere, around finding cheap activities, there are the same cheap nights and deals aimed at them as elsewhere. All this obsession with expense and the automatic assumption that this is a barrier for poorer students is actually the barrier for poor students who should consider London if the course and environment feel right for them.

Of course for students who are funded by bank of mum and dad then the expense becomes an issue for Mum and Dad, and that is something that needs to be resolved as a family. As a family we felt it was more important that our DDs made the decision on other factors and found the right course and environment for them, and they made completely opposite decisions because they are opposites

Horses for courses

My friend went there and loved it