UCL- is it really that bad?

[cornwall1900]

Hello.

Dd is considering UCL, the course suits her perfectly and excites her, so there's that aspect sorted.

All I've heard are negative things about UCL; "my ds dropped out", "anti social","hard to make friend as the student body is so dispersed", "internationals keep to themselves". Of course I fully accept that these are merely anecdotal and variying.

The cost really worries us, she'd likely have to work. I'd like her to enjoy her college experience like I did and not become in essence a working adult just yet. It just doesn't seem to be a lot of fun to me, compared to cheaper northern cities.

I'm also worried how a country girl like her will deal with city living in what to me as a rural girl seems a cold place to live.

How have your dc found UCL?

I do hope I'm worrying over nothing.

Agree with needmoresleep about the French tribe, who are heavily controlled maternally (usually), and far more rigid than the Chinese. Of course all this is caricature, and even the most excluding will approach you especially if Maman thinks you are of use to them. They do not have a problem with others eating Marmite.

Likewise BoboChic's bourgeoisie who are clearly just as fearful of diversity, hence clump together. Their loss need not be yours. The advantage of London is that it is big enough for these clumps to be irrelevant, unlike less diverse places.

Learning to navigate all waters is part of growing up. Often the greatest learning is uncomfortable, and the youthful mind is very elastic. There will almost always be a tension between comfort and growth, we are lucky to have so many HE choices in the UK catering for all preferences.

Anecdote from (uber sociable used to mixing with all sorts DSS2): after a few months at UCL he was chatting one day to some fellow students from one of his seminars. Someone from outside his course greets him in French (fellow Francophone) and so DSS2 has a quick conversation with him in French before turning back to his group conversation. One of the boys in that group exclaims "Wow! Where did you learn your French?" to which DSS2 quite naturally responds "I am French".

Cue confused looks from British boy who had asked the question - and DSS2 (who speaks English like any MC English person from the SE of England) has been blanked by that group ever since. Xenophobia exists...

I think it depends a bit on what your child is looking for from a uni-at a London uni you won't get that same 'campus' experience as if you went to somewhere like, for example, Exeter or Nottingham
The social scene at any uni is booming though and it is what you make of it! The benefit of somewhere like UCL (or indeed any of the uni of london colleges) is that you can opt for intercollegiate halls which gives you the option of meeting a broader range of people-my husband went to UCL for undergrad (we're going back to the late 90's now though!) and had a terrific time in intercollegiate halls.
I had a friend who went to a campus uni with a reputation for being one of the most socially active in the country and he had a miserable experience-it depends on the person!
There is no getting away from the cost though, however UCL is one of the best unis in the world

I was at UCL and will be returning to complete my course, I had left temporarily before I got pregnant with DD which delayed my return. However, I am only returning because I have already sunk so much money into it and want to be able to access graduate careers if I chose not to be a SAHM.
I personally found it a pretty horrible place, I had my money and clothes stolen by flat mates (which caused my anxiety to worsen to levels I could no longer cope and dropped out temporarily as I could no longer live in our flat) and the university were unwilling to do anything about it and the loss of money meant I ended up with nowhere to live.
I found my course in first year to be pretty basic as they have to help those who hadn't done the subject at A level catch up, and in second year was not impressed to find that lectures were being given new titles but contained EXACTLY the same content as the previous year. As I was typing notes my computer was highlighting previous documents I had done the year before with the same wording. We were constantly waiting to get essays back and often not getting them before we had to do more because of strikes in the faculty, so you had no way to make improvements on subsequent essays due to not having any feedback on previous ones.
I also found it very difficult to be able to talk to tutors as their offices hours were very short and once booked up you had no hope, with the lack of essays with feedback this was very frustrating.
They dealt appallingly with my mental health difficulties, there was next to no support bar 6 sessions of CBT which for complex mental health is just not going to cut it. In first year I was allocated a shared room, and although I wasn't happy about this I tried to make the best of it (I had said I could pay the maximum accommodation costs and got put in the cheapest) and my roommates (one dropped out after the first term and was replaced although I was willing to pay her half of the rent to have the room to myself) were both awful to live with and it really damaged my settling in as I had no space of my own to work undisturbed. I would have gone to the library but there were some nasty groups on social media where people posted photos of people in the library mocking them or complaining about them and with high anxiety I just couldn't sit there knowing I could be next to be named and shamed for some unknown misdemeanour.
Also, from my experience the majority of students are very wealthy whether from the UK or abroad, nearly every U.K. Student I met had been at boarding school. I suppose due to the location this is inevitable as less wealthy students won't be able to afford the excessive accommodation costs, even the uni halls are ridiculously overpriced (mine was £130 a week for a shared box room it's roughly double for a single and more for an ensuite)
Maybe all Universities are like this, but my experience has not been positive, and if I could rewind and not give them my money I would!

I think UCL is more like being a yopro but three or four years early! It is clearly loved by many but you really have to decide if its way of life is for you. All the art galleries in the world and theatres won't matter if that is not your thing. It is a very expensive city so a small budget is a problem and working in a coffee shop instead of interning is also not so good if you need to intern but also need money. Working can take you away from friends and experiences too. Where there are tribes, such as medics, it's fine. Whether you want to live the other side of London and spend a long time commuting is a valid consideration. To some it won't matter but to others it's a deal breaker. There is no evidence that UCL opens more doors than say Durham or equivalent. Lots of employment opportunities are down to individuals, not specific university courses.

I am wondering if this is the same university my DD attended.

She had some serious problems whilst there and had excellent support, both counselling and other pastoral support, and in terms of legal and housing advice and a very effective (and firm, not afraid to invoke the disciplinary process) conciliation with a flatmate that lost the plot.

She made lots of great friends, they all needed up in the Camden /Holloway area, from all sorts of backgrounds, northerners from deprived backgrounds, overseas students as well as private school Londoners. She is a Scientist but they were doing courses across the disciplines. They are all now progressing in their chosen careers.

As others have said it is horses for courses. I have another DD at one of those cheap Northern universities and yes the rent is cheaper but it is harder to find paid work and friends from poorer backgrounds have ended up moving home with long commutes to make ends meet. She has had a great time but is now finding it parochial and is doing her Masters in London.

Neither would chose differently with the benefit of hindsight

whatwouldrondo - don't think my DSS2, at UCL, doesn't love it. He does! He is also really very clever and, perhaps crucially, as tough as old boots! I think that UCL is not for the faint hearted - I know quite a few Parisians who have gone there and found it hard going.

Bobo, the decision making, expectations and experience for non British students will be very different from that of a British student. UCL will have no problems recruiting students from the smarter Paris arrondissements, but does struggle with persuading people like OP's DC that a top London education is worth the extra challenges.

The French often seem to head for London, over, say, Warwick, because they assume it will require less cultural adjustment, as well as the scope for supper with Tante Maud in South Kensington. And if LSE is anything to go by, they seem to arrive having already decided that they want to go into banking, so congregate on specific courses, and with social life focused on networking. (The Golf Society.) It will be tough. London is a big City and very different from Paris, the approach to education is different, and they will be up against lots of equally bright and ambitious individuals all focused on landing a smallish number of prized internships. One of DS' East Asian friends, told me she heard a lot of French spoken in corridors but did not know any French students. I suspect part of the difference is that most of DS' friends are wanting public sector or research careers, have picked the appropriate options, and actually don't know that many future bankers of whatever nationality. . Their French homologues have stayed in Paris to study at ENA.

French students wanting to study in London for a first degree will inevitably be a self selecting group and lack diversity. The same does not apply to British students. There is likely to be more ethnic diversity than you find at many RG Universities, more privately educated kids because of cost, and more from within the M25. But plenty of scope to find your tribe, including, if that is your thing, golf-playing would be bankers. A couple of DS' friends are on Government scholarships from their home countries, looking to pursue the same sort of career he aspires to. I disagree with borojo. I think students tend to clique by common interest, rather than by nationality. And that studying at a top London university provides a great chance to develop a real international outlook and understanding.

(I was at LSE many many years ago, and even then I was the only English student on my course. Initially it was really tough, but it got easier, and early experience of making friends from all over the world continues to be valuable.)

I considered UCL and eventually decided against it (got an offer), my reasons were:

1. At the offer day I was the only native-english-speaker there, and although everyone seemed nice they formed little cliques talking in their native languages, so I felt pretty left out.
2. I was also the only girl but then it was a hard science. (this contributed to the odd-one-out feeling though)
3. I didn't like the idea of living in London - dirty, noisy, high crime, expensive etc.
4. I was told that first year students may have to share rooms in halls, and the idea of sharing a room with a random stranger did not appeal at all!

I ended up going to Manchester, which I loved. It was slightly better ranked for my subject (I think one above UCL). I loved the studenty feel of Manchester, and the cheap living costs. Also although obviously a big city, it's nowhere near london-scale and there are lots of nice bits that don't have that grimy big city feel.

I'm obviously biassed, but I think I made the right decision :)

London is no longer grimy! Nearly everywhere has had a facelift and a good clean! Even where our flat is has been gentrified and high house prices have made this reality! Hence high living costs though.

Nearly everywhere has had a facelift and a good clean! Even where our flat is has been gentrified and high house prices have made this reality! Hence high living costs though.

There speaks someone who lives in a bubble. DD stayed in various flats that would only be an investment for a Landlord planning to rent to students, e.g. above a parade of shops on the A1 but their favourite flat by far was in a 20s Council block off the Holloway Road, terrible swirly brown 70s carpets that could have been down in my student slug trailed house (most student houses today are not slums and furnished courtesy of IKEA so the carpet was a bit of an anachronism) really diverse neighbours who welcomed them to the community.

No worse though than the addresses students live in in any big northern city, Leeds, Birmingham , Nottingham (actually we took a wrong turn in Nottingham and we ended up in a drug gang area that was far more scary than anywhere in London or Leeds), Manchester........

Rent in London was £120 per month more expensive than in the northern city, appreciated when parents are paying but if the student has to find the money then its is much easier to fund with flexible part time work you can fit with your studies.

Horses for courses, if your child needs to live in a nice well groomed area, they will pay for it wherever they go......

Ok. So there are still rat infested areas where slum landlords abound but very many areas have been gentrified because of house price inflation. I am amazed anyone keeps cheaper (?) student property anymore because rents are so high, with an update, the rental return willl be higher from yopros. The London housing market is a world of its own and cannot be compared with any other city. The students can get much better accommodation for substantially less money in other cities and they are not necessarily in the North!

bojo I fear you do not understand either the properties most young professionals rent in London these days on the average graduate salary, unless they have either subs from parents or particularly well paid jobs. It is more a matter of carrying on in student flats in areas like Holloway Tooting and Balham into your late twenties than graduating to any sort of improved more expensive accommodation.

Loving this division of the country into London and The North.......I presume there is another region called Oxbridge?

I presume there is another region called Oxbridge?

And another called BrExeter, full of private school cliques apparently.

Needmore, that is our experience too. Some Asian boys (but not all of course) my sons are at school with will live at home at university (some don't leave home until they marry) and their family likes them to go to one of the London universities. UCL is very good and lots ofpeople do fine there. For my 5 children they didn't want to go to university at home as it were and want to see a different part of the world but had they wanted to go to UCL, King's, LSE etc of course those would have been fine too. A few of their friends have wanted to make sure the university they go to has enough non white students actually and I can understand that - you don't want to be different fromo everyone so that does seem to affect their choices to an extent although I am sure for all of them it is mostly about the institution and future job prospects.

As Mum to a YoPro I know where she is living and I know the whole area where she lives is full of people like her in newish flats. Definitely not student flats that are grimy!

bojo DD knows an entire cohort from a London school (one of the names) and two / three years out of UCL, along with a fair few who are from expat families here for their taste of London, believe me grimy student flats (if not still at home in the case of London families) are the norm if you do not have an exceptionally well paid City job or access to parental funds to subsidise buying.....

UCL is in the top ten in the QS World University Rankings and in the top twenty in the Times rankings. Yes, it is very international and it is located in one of the world's great cities. It's life in the fast lane.

Life in a less highly-ranked university in a smaller city will be less intense. There is a lot to be said for considering a university such as Bristol or even a more local university. These will be less international and less pressurised. But then these aren't in the top ten or twenty ranked universities.

Life in the fast lane, competing at the top internationally, is not for everyone. The right choice - the fast lane, middle lane or slower lane - is really down to what the student wants from university.

...I presume there is another region called Oxbridge?

For those who prefer life in the bicycle lane to the 'fast lane'?

The self-obsessed lane?

Enormous, there are lots of non-white British students in London universities. Are they to be avoided too? And I'm guessing being one of the only non-white students at eg St Andrews or Exeter might make those students uncomfortable. Do you think they might find it difficult being 'different' as well? Should they only stay in big cities to study? Interesting that you are only seeing the angst from one perspective.

Enormous, curiously my London raised DD is more worried about the lack of diversity in Universities outside London. Her hope was to find somewhere like London but well away from the family home. Not easy!

Part of growing up in an international city is an awareness of a diversity of parental expectations even within her friendship group. Some of her friends will be expected to live at home. Others will have had their courses/careers chosen for them. To some extent she has picked up the work ethics and sky high aspirations of her peers, but aware she is under a lot less pressure. I think the same is true at good London Universities. If you are able to find a diverse friendship group based on common interest rather than background or ethnicity, peer influence will probably have you studying hard and aiming high.

The London, living at home, is probably a bit of a red herring. People always lived at home, and because of good transport and how dispersed people are, a lot of social activity happens on campus. In my day the obvious group were Jewish students from North London, where the family tradition was to stay at home until you got married. Some could have been accused of being cliquey, but equally others were outgoing and sociable. Indeed I only realised a couple of friends were Jewish when I gatecrashed a Jewish Soc event because it was known to have the best food

I guess all the flats around DD's area must be rented by city high flyers then! Given the area it is, that's a possibility, and lawyers too! However, there are acres and acres of such redeveloped flats!

I would have thought most London graduate starting salaires would provide enough of an income to move out of grime and move up into something a bit more attractive, except those working in the arts maybe. DD does not have a massive sum of money each month, and is saving to pay tax, but does pay a fairly high rent (I think!) to be in Zone 1 in a modern flat. She will be self employed in October, so that could be an intersting time! It may be some people like grime because they have more money to socialise and prefer to spend money on that. It is a lifestyle decision for some. The same way that some people will not go a university hall of residence unless it has an ensuite bathroom and allmod cons.

I do think that if you find other students with like minded interests and work ethic you settle in. Both my DDs noticed, at school, that some parents drove the university choices and courses. The parental expectations were sky high and courses like Law, Dentistry, Economics, Medicine and Pharmacy were highly prized, preferably in London if Oxbridge could not be attained.

I was just recounting the experiences of some of my sons' friends. They are currently in a school which is about 80% non white. One boy (not the brightest of the bunch) even said last year 50% of people in the UK are not white). They didn't want to be one of only a few who weren't white. I am sure it is not their major issue by any means. I don't think it's even entered the radar of my own boys as an issue. They don't want London because we live here. They are currently choosing between Bristol and Durham offers. I wasn't keen on paying for the extra year in Edinburgh (they have offers from there too) but I would not stop them going there if they chose it of course.