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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Should students study subjects they love or a degree that will get them a job?

110 replies

bevelino · 12/02/2017 22:59

My dd's will be applying for courses for 2018 and have asked me whether they should study subjects they love or a degree that will lead to a job? I am unsure what to advise. What do mumsnetters think?

OP posts:
user7214743615 · 13/02/2017 20:37

Do you think being able to speak a second and maybe another language will help them in a competitive graduate job market?

The answer to this question isn't clear as it presumably depends strongly on changes to immigration policy post Brexit. I don't think that being bilingual or trilingual is currently a huge advantage as many workers from Europe speak their native language plus near perfect English, and hold in addition degrees in STEM/other shortage subjects. There are also quite a few families in the UK that are multilingual because of their multicultural backgrounds. (My own DC speak and write 3+ languages fluently.)

On the other hand, MFL courses are under-subscribed at university so you can get into very good universities with relatively low grades and MFL degrees are welcomed by many employers, even if they don't directly want to make use of the MFL.

TinselTwins · 13/02/2017 20:38

the main thing really for going on to teaching is to get an okay degree classification. By doing something they enjoy in a place the like living in for 3 years, they can do that

If they do "languages and ___" make sure they like the "and". If they struggle with the "and" it'll drag down their degree classification

RTKangaMummy · 13/02/2017 20:39

We said to our DS that he should do a degree that he was going to enjoy rather than worry about getting a job afterwards

So many of his friends were put under pressure by their families to do this degree of that one without much choice by the teenagers bad they ended up being miserable

Obviously for Dr or dentist or suchlike it is important what degree you do but before that is A level choices etc

So IMHO and IME let teenagers decide for themselves (unless vocational)

SmileSmileSmile

RTKangaMummy · 13/02/2017 20:41

*BUT

Original poster
bevelino · 13/02/2017 21:05

User72147 thanks for your views. Having read the whole thread dds' appreciate that an ability to speak additional languages might not help give them an advantage but hopefully if the 2 dds interested in becoming teachers maintain their interest that will help. The other 2 dd's are unsure but have seen plenty of good advice on this thread.

OP posts:
Foldedtshirt · 13/02/2017 22:32

Having a language is a real boost, and as fewer and fewer students study them they could pick a joint honours and 'grade up' a university. Very roughly if they have the grades to do say history at X university they could go to a 'harder to get into university' by applying to do history and Spanish.

RB68 · 13/02/2017 22:44

I think it depends on what they love and what they want to do as a job - if they want to be an accountant or a lawyer then they need to do that, but languages always useful and if its art there must be talent so they should look at making career out of what they love too.

Quite honestly I would also be challenging whether they want or need to go at all given the full cost of it and the chains of it being debt going forward - are there other ways to what they want to do??

TinselTwins · 14/02/2017 20:54

I think as a generalisation, society is suffering as a result of the rejection of learning for enjoyment and for learnings sake, and the (understandable due to economics) trend towards vocational/professional subjects, and degrees/studies as a means to employment/learning.

Thinking that the rise of fake news and lack of critical thinking Vs the drop in students chosing the classics and arts and philosophy etc you know?

Sorry OP just thinking out loud a bit…

2rebecca · 14/02/2017 21:01

We all did vocational degrees. I can't imagine going to university without a career plan, it seems so random. Fine study English if you need a good degree and that one's OK for your chosen career but I find the idea of studying for 4 years getting a load of debt and then thinking "what next?" strange.
If my kids hadn't a clear plan I'd have preferred them to work for a bit until they become passionate about something.

VirgilsStaff · 15/02/2017 08:26

It's not either/or OP

In order to do well, students generally need to be intellectually invested in their discipline - not the awful "passionate" word (which I would liken from Personal Statements) yes, I do read them but a desire to find stuff out, go further than the set lectures and reading, and engage with a discipline to push themselves and the discipline.

I'm in the humanities, although I have A levels in Maths and Physics, as well as my own subjects. I could have read a science-oriented subject at university, but my curiosity wasn't in it.

user7214743615 · 15/02/2017 08:53

if they want to be an accountant or a lawyer then they need to do that

Accountancy and law degrees are not required to become accountants and lawyers. (Accountancy degrees are often slightly less preferred than degrees in maths etc by top firms e.g. maths from top university could outrank accountancy from middle university.)

AndromedaPerseus · 15/02/2017 10:16

I do think these days dcs often opt for university because their is a lack of other viable options at 18 post Alevels. I'd advised my dcs not to do a non vocational degree at 18 unless they were really passionate about the subject and not because they couldn't think of anything better to do and instead have a gap year exploring employment options.

I did a undergraduate degree at 18 because my DPs and school felt I should but I didn't enjoy it. Having worked for a few years afterwards I then went on to do a post graduate qualification which I self funded and enjoyed. I know which one I put more effort into.
As to not having to pay back the loan until you earn a salary of £21000, this level has not increased since it was announced 4 years ago and now more and more people in are having to pay back their loans much earlier than they thought. I also don't trust governments to honour the current promise of writing off the debt after 30 years

VintagePerfumista · 15/02/2017 10:20

The Affective Dimension- oft touted in academic circles.

You will never be as good at something you don't like as something you love. Especially true of languages.

I will definitely be encouraging my dd to study what she loves. Life's too short to not. (watch the famous Steve Jobs video if in any doubt!)

Amy345 · 15/02/2017 10:23

What about a joint honours degree where they can choose one subject they love and the other that would be better for career (or major in one and minor in the other)

Foureyesarebetterthantwo · 15/02/2017 10:27

I'm not sure really what people mean by 'vocational' courses at university There are a few which are tailored to specific sectors, so Travel and Tourism, and Engineering, but in general, this isn't something that university does very well at all. Plus for most professional careers, it doesn't matter what degree you do, as someone just said, the big accountancy and actuarial firms recruit people who have Maths or even Sciences, they don't in general recruit people who did an accountancy degree. Same with Law, Teaching, Social Work, there's almost no profession where the undergrad degree leads directly to a career (except Psychology graduate basis for registration a prerequisite), Medicine (but you still have to do lots of years of placements to be a GP), Dentistry- but these are all high tariff entry anyway.

I don't think at our university as well we are very good at producing people with vocational degrees, the best we can do is get them good work placements/working in industry during the degree.

GetAHaircutCarl · 15/02/2017 10:48

Many many 17 year olds don't 'love' any particular subject. And I think that's normal.

Both my DC could cheerfully choose quite a number of disciplines, especially DS who is something of a polyglot.

My advice has been to simply avoid anything you know you don't like, no matter how well it is regarded and veer towards your interests. the idea that you need to show great passion for one subject to get offers is also false. For example, DD applied for different courses at different universities and no one seemed to give a toss ( though it made drafting her PS a PITA).

GetAHaircutCarl · 15/02/2017 10:49

Polymath not glot - fecking autocorrect!

EnormousTiger · 15/02/2017 10:53

(Am not a fan of joint honours. Can be harder and longer than one subject but seen by some employers as just doing half the usual work on the full degree subject had you done single honours so a bit diluted)

amidawsh · 15/02/2017 11:00

love vs useful?

if they can get into a top flight uni, then go for love. the quality of the degree will get them through.

if not, then go for useful which has job opportunities/ industry placements etc

amidawsh · 15/02/2017 11:02

i joined a top 6 accountancy firm with a geogrpahy degree and without maths A level.

if they have a good degree from a good uni they'll be ok

OllyBJolly · 15/02/2017 11:18

I think as a generalisation, society is suffering as a result of the rejection of learning for enjoyment and for learnings sake

I agree with this. This whole "widening access to education" has devalued education at all levels. University degrees used to be about disciplined thinking and challenging learning (and some still are).

Most kids go to university now - and I'd be prepared to believe that more than half of them get a substandard education that they are not particularly interested in. The ones who are really interested in the subject suffer because their classmates are not. Topics like "Hospitality Management" and "Travel and Tourism" are not well suited to academic study.

Just where do kids go that don't want to sit in a classroom yet might be exceptionally talented in that subject?

My friend is a team leader in a call centre. Everyone in her team has a degree. They try to persuade people not to cancel satellite tv channels. Is that worth years of study and £15k in debt?

AndromedaPerseus · 15/02/2017 11:23

Amida when did you graduate if like me in the early 90s then it probably didn't matter what degree you did and where as the graduate population was 10-15% so graduates then had a certain rarity value. Nowadays with up to 40% going to university employers are much more specific about degree subject, where you studied and degree class, I know we are when we employ graduates otherwise we would sifting through unmanageable numbers of CVs

user7214743615 · 15/02/2017 11:34

Most kids go to university now.

No, we still don't send most kids to university. It is around 40%.

The debt is way more than £15k, unless family are able to contribute.

TheWayYouLookTonight · 15/02/2017 11:40

A bit of both. When I was at uni there were plenty of people doing law degrees because of employment potential, who loathed the course and ended up doing badly or dropping out. No point doing a 'good' course at a 'good' uni if you end up only getting a third...

A degree in a numerate subject you enjoy is normally a good bet in the absence of a strong subject preference, as you will do both essay writing and some calculations.

Daisies123 · 15/02/2017 11:43

I work in HE- definitely what they love. To be immersed in one subject for 3/4 years and to do well at it then it has to be something they're passionate about.

They can help with the jobs thing though- go to a decent uni, do their utmost to get good results, take advantage of volunteering or paid opportunities to get experience and find out what it is they want to do, join societies etc that will help them with the soft skills employers like to look for.

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