Should students study subjects they love or a degree that will get them a job?

[bevelino]

My dd's will be applying for courses for 2018 and have asked me whether they should study subjects they love or a degree that will lead to a job? I am unsure what to advise. What do mumsnetters think?

LRD, I agree. Great post.

I think it is worth thinking beyond a degree and what you might like to do then, whilst recognising that interests may change.

So a degree becomes more about keeping doors open. So you love chemistry but like the idea of being a lawyer. Fine. Patent law?

DS has always been passionate about economics. (To a weird degree and from a very early age.) If he wants doors open for a career in research economics, just studying economics for a first degree is not enough. He needs to have done lots of maths. (Indeed a maths degree can open more doors than many economics degrees.) Luckily he has found he enjoys maths, something he did not realise at school. (University maths is apparently quite different.) However his degree has enough flex in it that if he became less interested in his original path, he would probably still enjoy economics and plenty of career doors would be still be open.

foureyes: Our Philosophy grads are well employed, but whether this is because they are already quite affluent (the choice to study Philosophy being one that might not be supported by less wealthy parents very concerned with vocational education) or because they are very clever/deft of mind, it's hard to say.

It's undoubtedly the affluence they arrive with. Sadly, despite OFFA et al, it's still affluence, cultural and financial, of parents that is the major predictor of post-graduation outcomes.

It's a hard slog if you're studying something you're not keen on, but you might not yet know what really grabs you. So if you're not sure, look at what you're good at and what interests you. (If you're an all-rounder, this is less helpful.) If you're good at STEM subjects, I'd lean towards those, because there are more likely to be more job opportunities. I'd go for something core/more general - if you need to specialise later, there are post grad options.

And don't forget that it's not setting your life path in stone. My first degree is history and now I work in IT. There are a lot of women in IT who started out in totally different fields, and I think it makes a better, more diverse workforce, because you end up with a wider range of skills available. I use the writing and analytical skills gained from my history degree every day, as much as I use the tech knowledge from my computer science degree. You need to look at the wider skills gained, not just details of the 1842 Mines Act or whatever, which I admit doesn't tend to come up in my work life.

If you're determined to be a surgeon or teacher, that will guide your choices. Otherwise, go for something you enjoy, but don't ignore how it will be employable - and you while it will close some paths, there will still be more open than anyone could make the most of in a lifetime, so don't worry too much.

titchy I'm sure you are right, but it's also the case that they are often very clever as well (entering on all A grades) and so with that and good contacts, they do get snapped up by employers.

Let's put it this way, I studied for a degree (with elements that I liked) that will get me a good job. It made me happy and still am.

I believe it has to be both. It can't all be about what you love, if only! And it can't all be about what's going to get you a job if you absolutely hate it.

You migh love to wash elephants in Asia, but it won't get you a mortgage or pay the bills, doubt you'll be happy for long. It's wise to do something that will put food on the table without having resort to benefits as much as one can. However doing something purely for the money whilst getting no pleasure from it whatsoever, is not s good recipe for longevity and good health either. It's about getting a good balance.

Wonderful post LRD
I wish every VI former could have access to such balanced and knowledgeable advice.

Study what you love. 3+ years studying something you're not passionate about is crap! I remember the careers dept at my uni telling us that over 60% of graduate positions aren't degree-specific. Experience gained at uni through work or extra curricular activities can be just as valuable on your CV, as the subject(s) studied.

Ideally both! But these days I think it should be career focused, things are so competitive now. They can access study for subjects they love at any point in their lives, but they'll be confronting the job market within the next five years, so I think that should be the focus.

I suppose it also depends on how you define success.

My DS1 wants a big house, nice car, expensive gadgets etc. His interests are hopefully aligned with areas where he can earn well.

DS2 on the other hand isn't really motivated by stuff in the same way, he'll be happier earning less in a job he loves or earning less in a job he can tolerate that brings in enough money to live on but which allows him time and resource to follow outside interests.

I'd say both of those outcomes would be successful for the person they are...however, I always say to both that they need to put effort into doing the best they can academically because it opens up more choices in life should they want to take them.

Study what she loves. I had classmates drop out and fail out because they took the "sensible" option instead of what they actually wanted to do

and as a PP said, my degree has been very useful for my career, but in so much as to demonstrate that I have achieved that level of education, it hasn't had to line up to exactly what I'm doing although mine is in a similar field.

Also, I think people massively misjudge which are the "employable" degrees and which aren't. Sometimes the obviously employable ones are the ones with most competition for decent post grad positions.

Mine is one of those "obvious" employable fields, but with so many graduates you do have to work for peanuts or even free internships to get a foot in the door. Once you do that it has good career paths, but many stumble at that point if they have other commitments or no parents or partner to support them financially through that stage.

I wish the OP would come back!
Because in theory 'what you love' is the right answer, would anyone really be thrilled to see their dcs doing a non vocational, non proven subject at a poorly performing university?

would anyone really be thrilled to see their dcs doing a non vocational, non proven subject at a poorly performing university?

Well again it comes back to perceptions not always being correct

In my time I've been to both a red brick and an ex poly.

The teaching quality at the redbrick was awful, poor support, outdated program specs. Lots of pHD and post docs doing lectures for a bit of extra cash and just going through the motions and rhyming off pre prepared lectures.

The ex poly course was right up to date with new developments, the lecturers came from the field (and were academics on the back of that) rather than from puree academia and gave really engaging lectures. The support was great, it was really applied to the work place.

Tinsel I entirely to an extent, but rightly or wrongly a degree from a Russell group university is likely to be better perceived by recruiters than one from an ex HE college. A fantastically taught course in philosophy won't help get a job if it's not from a great university.

Foldedtshirt

The red brick I graduated from had a fairly high drop out / fail rate. It was a mix of it being crap, and also people having chosen it because it was "the sensible option" but they really wanted to be doing dance at their local college.

You're still going to do better finshing a well taught degree you enjoy from a bog standard uni than you are if you chose a degree "on paper" rather than with your heart and don't finish it!

Actually the vast majority of employers don't give a shit about the RG... (Weirdly there are employers other than Magic Circle law firms )

Agreed. Just because its a red brick or RG doesn't mean it's a given that its the best in its field, particularly for more specialist subjects.

You need to do something you enjoy that leads somewhere productive. No one is any good at work they dislike.

Love, or at least, have a genuine interest in. If not, high chance of dropping out.

I am original OP and will be reading everyone's replies when I get home from work this evening.

Hijack for LRD (excellent post, btw): who should read English, then? What kind of people will enjoy the course?

I have a DC who might be interested in English and I want to advise cautiously and well.

The thing is is you opt for a subject for the love of it then unless you get onto the graduate milk round schemes you could very well be looking at having to pay for another course which qualifies you to do a job. I think these days unless you are from a wealthy background studying a subject just for the love of it is a luxury

Echoing what Turbinaria said, studying a subject you love, in many parts of the world is a luxury.

I never would have got a degree at all if I had just tried to study what I loved. I loved nothing. I couldn't choose anything today that I "love"

Sometimes something you might like & that probably means a decent job is a good decision.

All my dd's are interested in studying language courses with another subject at university, but are unsure where that might lead. They are fluent Spanish speakers and 2 dd's say that they are interested in teaching. All 3 dd's are prepared to take a gap year to work to save money for university as their older sister is currently doing.

I'll have all 4 girls at university at the same time, which won't be easy on the finances but dh and I will make sacrifices to help them all. They are busy reading all the posts here and are cheered up to be advised that they should study subjects that they love as they are looking at 4 year courses due to compulsory 3rd year abroad.

Do you think being able to speak a second and maybe another language will help them in a competitive graduate job market? I am hoping the answer will be yes if they are prepared to do any further training/studying needed. There are no guarantees, but I feel lucky they are determined to keep an eye on studying courses that might help them stand out later on.

They'll walk into teaching! it's not a compeditive field, they're desperate for teachers. They'll get on a graduate training program no bother

It's also a field with very high burn-out at the moment, so if it were my kids I'ld encourage them to to do a degree that keeps other options open too