DS flunked his exam - predicted grades now AAD - should we apply for university this year?

[JudithTaverner]

So DS has just told me that he's predicted AAD (Maths, Physics, Further Maths) because he messed up/misread the question in his summer exams. He wants to study engineering.

Is it worth applying to universities now? He expects to get an A in further maths (seems D is way below his capability). Even allowing for his overconfidence, I would expect him to get at least a B. If this happens, would he get a place through clearing?

Or should he take a year out and apply next year?

He has ASD if that's relevant.

Thanks!

I think the AS grades show the D is the school getting it very wrong.
I was concerned my boys were predicted A in some A levels (they got A at AS) actually - so concerned the schoolw as over predicting. So it seems very strange here the school is under predicting. If he got AAB at AS then I woudl have thought A A* A predictions for A2 would not be unreasonable of the school surely?
I would get on to the school.

I absolutely accept it is up to the school but my children's school had a parents' evening in September when parents were told the predictions (not so parents could lobby to get them changed but to be able to discuss them) and I don't think this school has properly gone into things never mind the fact it's all a bit late. However I accept maths and FM are probably different from my sons' subjects so may be I am wrong about predictions. I know my chidlren's school though use the GCSE results too for predictions, not just AS which is good too. Anyway I am not an expert but an AAB AS results boy predicted AAD sounds as if the school has let him down on the draft form.

SoupDragon I found it mysterious myself, but it was explained to me by the Ho6 and my DS definitely now has an A grade AS in Maths and a proper A grade in FM with certificates to prove it!

I'm not so sure Tiger, since if the B in FM was a result of a significant boost from the ordinary Maths results, it might well be that with the increased difficulty of FM at A2 that the school really does consider that his ceiling.

Enormoustiger - FM and M are structured in such a completely different way to all other legacy subjects you can't compare to your (4 x As at AS twins - ) experience. It's entirely likely his Maths papers haven't even been certificated yet.

What DD has been told is that while some of the modules have to be assigned as maths(eg c1&2) and some have to be FM(eg FP1&2), the exam board balances the others to give the best possible grades. Eg youd get 2a rather than a high A and a high B if possible.

Predicting the fm may be tricky....some of the fm takes time and practice to click, I think.

And your AS maths and FM modules will be 'unlocked' in order to do the rejigging after the second year's exams. But to go from a B at AS which is 210/300 ums to a D at A2 which is 300-359/600 ums would mean they don't think he can get another 150 ums across fp2 and two applieds? Which is pessimistic I think, but possibly realistic?

That Warwick BEng that someone linked to earlier, btw, 'only' needed AAB.

I don't think it's that helpful for the OP to have to hear how amazingly well some other posters DC have done.

Fair play for being proud of your DC but there is a time and a place.

I am not sure 4 As AS in arts subjects are as hard to get as As in maths and further maths actually although I wouldn't say it to my boys....... Actually the thread shows me how complicated predicting further maths A2 grades must be so ignore my comments relevant to arts A level subjects only.......

It does confirm my view that in careers where subjects don't matter too much as long as they are mostly faciltating subjects but grades and university institution do (like for law) that if maths/science is not your thing you are best to steer clear of them. However this boy with aspergers and who is very good at maths is obviously doing exactly the right subject for him. Anyway I will shut up now and leave those who know about further maths to continue their better advice.....

Hello Judith I paused at the use of "we" until I noted that your son has ASD. The potential effect this has on his emotional as well as organisational maturity is important when considering if he is really ready for university. I have a bright 12 yo ds with HF ASD, his maths teacher is already predicting A* in GCSE (assuming ds learns to write legibly). This is lovely but he is also incredibly sensitive and vulnerable. Obviously we have years before university, but it is clear his teachers are already envisioning Oxbridge while I am more immediately concerned with when he will be able to go to the shop on his own.

If he needs a year or two years before he is ready to go to uni, I would rather take that time and let him go when he is ready not just because there is an expected timetable. There are examples in my family of very bright very sensitive young people going off to uni and failing, retaking years, dropping out. Some have gone back and completed, others haven't and I am not sure it was worth potential damage to their mental health. So if there are concerns about how a person is going to cope in a high pressured environment, where they are expected to organise themselves then they need priority.

Ds wants to go to uni, I want him to go when he is ready, it will be up to him but I am going to try to keep time pressure out of the decision making process. A year in voluntary or paid work while living at him will not kill his potential.

Thanks everyone (I really don't mind hearing about your amazingly bright children by the way!) and thank you bigmouth for understanding. I'm so worried about how he will cope in the world. (btw he did all of his work on a laptop until and including gcses - that really helped as no one at all can read his writing and his dyspraxia means he can write about one word a minute, so maybe your ds can do the same? He also has extra time in exams and a scribe if he wants).

I need to speak to the tutor - will do this after Christmas. He does want to go to university but I need to understand more what his predicted grade is and what it is based on.

He's out this evening (very rare for him!) but I'll speak to him more tomorrow about his AS levels and the summer exams.

DurdleDurdle in my case, and given that I'm never previously had a DC do Maths and FM at AS so needed this odd system explained to me by the school, I related the marks to pass on what had been thus been explained. From what others have subsequently said on this thread it looks as though it's not necessarily the lowest mark which is transferred. But really, sometimes relating what DC have done is by way of simple explanation - I doubt either Tiger or myself have the least interest in boasting, I don't think either of us are especially needy.

(I was most pleased my twins got the same grades actually as usually one does a bit better than the other and I'm glad their school still did AS in all exams this year as they worked a lot harder in LVI than for GCSEs)

By the way the university was very helpful with my older son who has dyspraxia when he was struggling to get papers in on time. In the end he decided to give me access to his university email account and we set upa system of reminders of deadlines, totally not what most of us expect to do with adult children and I never did with my daughters one of whom would not really even telephone between the start and end of a university term, but it worked really well and he is glad he set up the system and got his degree.

(He also typed his A levels and university exams and had extra time).

It's possible that perhaps your ds has just underestimated the time that it takes to get the application done but perhaps he is instead rather paralysed by indecision? My own ds didn't really have a clue which uni to apply and was undecided about the course too. He decided to leave it until this year. He found that in August when the A Level results came out he was desperate to go to uni, but he didn't use Clearing and has just applied within the last couple of weeks.

I think that a gap year may be a good strategy.

If your ds can arrange some useful work experience it will be something he can write about in his PS. He can also use the beginning of a gap year to do additional reading which will also feature on a good PS. Perhaps more importantly your ds can benefit from an extra year at home with you.

I have experience of Aspergers and I'm wondering if there is a bit of the ' none of this is my fault' reasoning going on? I've found that Aspergers appears to really affect a person's ability to organise the minutiae that make up the whole. I know that my own AS child, ( not even at GCSE yet), will find it very difficult to put together a composite whole at GCSE and already struggles with 'admin' organisation.

It is still possible to apply within the deadline, but maybe it will be better to pause for a while and reassess the situation? There is also the possibility that if your ds pulled out the stops for GCSE he may well do the same at A Level but that predicted grade will mean that he won't necessarily be able to apply to the places he wants.

I do think that school have been rather remiss.

Good luck.

that sounds very similar to my ds waiting . I think he is paralysed by indecision and rather overwhelmed with everything.

We'll decide what to do after Christmas I think once I've spoken to the teacher. It may be that a gap year would be the best thing for him.

May I just say, being married to an Engineer, that reading about Engineering is not a great thing amongst Engineers. They are more "doing" people with enquiring minds about how things work. Taking things to pieces, "furtling" as we call it, thinking about how the built environment functions and visiting projects and understanding how it all fits together is key. In my DH's discipline, understanding 3D and visualising 3D in structures is really key! There is no doubt that the best Engineers are natural and have always put things together and taken them apart be it engines, airfix kits (do they still exist) and, in my DH's case, they built a monorail in the school grounds powered by a linear induction motor - those were the days.

Yes, Warwich may want AAB for General Engineering, but that is that is still two grades above a D and they are not likely to offer to someone predicted a D. Therefore some realism might be needed in choosing a university, at least for insurance choice.

My observation (sample size 1) is that there has been some reading as well as furtling - some of the reading to inform the furtling, some not.

Actually, that made me wonder - I know very little about dyspraxia, presumably it's different for each person but if he can't write efficiently, is that a motor control issue? can he manage the practical aspects of engineering degrees? I suppose the different disciplines don't all need the same level of practical skills, but if gen eng includes some electronic, building circuits and soldering seems like it might be rather akin to writing...looks bloody fiddly to me. Just wondered if it is a potential issue whether something like comp sci would work better for him (afaik you don't have to have done comp sci at school btw, 2xmaths +physics is fine ). Apologies if I'm way off base and further muddying the waters.

My DS took a gap. He has social communication issues in his his history and was a summer boy.

We think it was the best thing.

What I will say about eng. - the timetable in first year is very heavy. Concentration wise that was a real issue for DS and luckily he watched some lectures online at his pace.

The practical and small group work are actually a bonus - different way of learning.

DS say she could have gone straight away but made no effort to look into courses - I did. Gap year - he was on board. He also retook one A level and ended up on top course - with out a gap - not quite possible.

He worked very part time, did mentoring ( fitted in camping trips with friends) and went to a few lessons at his school. They mature so much year on year. Year 2, just 20, he seems very sorted.

Take the time - I'm sure he'll be better for it. Needs time to ponder on his choices no doubt - too much with A levels at same time.

I went to university with CDE got a 2.2, I ended up on the field I wanted to be in. I am sure he will be fine.

I went to university with CDE got a 2.2

But presumably this was some years ago? CDE 20 years ago is not comparable with CDE today. And now that around two thirds of degrees are 2:1s or above 2:2s are less acceptable to employers than they used to be.

It was 5 years ago.

First rule of dealing with kids applying to Uni is that is everything has changed massively and your own experiences are not always that relevant. I've had four DC go to University over the last 6 years and I swear things were different each time. Not just because the kids were different but because the system was different.

£3000 fees, increased top grades achievement, January modules, no January modules, AAB student numbers cap, ABB student cap, No student cap, over predicted grades. General messing around with A'Levels. Changes to student loans etc, etc ....Aghhhh

Onedayandthenwhat try working in the university sector! Never a dull moment!

I don't have any advice about your immediate problem, but I want to recommend your son applies for the Disabled Student Allowance and talks to the disability support office at the unis he accepts offers to. DSA is arranged through student finance & he may well need your help to get it organized, but it can pay for a mentor to help keep him organized & on track. His university should also be able to set up a study support plan with permission to record lectures / be given notes in advance / use a laptop in exams etc. Yes he's an adult who needs to become more independent through his time at university, but there is support for those who need it, & some universities have a better set up than others. Good luck to him.