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Higher education

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Original poster

DS flunked his exam - predicted grades now AAD - should we apply for university this year?

124 replies

JudithTaverner · 17/12/2016 09:45

So DS has just told me that he's predicted AAD (Maths, Physics, Further Maths) because he messed up/misread the question in his summer exams. He wants to study engineering.

Is it worth applying to universities now? He expects to get an A in further maths (seems D is way below his capability). Even allowing for his overconfidence, I would expect him to get at least a B. If this happens, would he get a place through clearing?

Or should he take a year out and apply next year?

He has ASD if that's relevant.

Thanks!

OP posts:
DurdleDurdle · 18/12/2016 13:58

Thanks for answering User7214. I find it interesting. Smile

Kr1stina · 18/12/2016 15:03

I'm sorry but some of this does NOT make sense. All the brightest kids who want to go to the top universities have been doing the following for at least the last 6 months :

Working to get the best grades possible. Doing extra revision, resitting anything that might bring their grades down, worrying about each test

Researching universities, courses, options, entry requirements , going open days , reading university websites, writing their personal statements , giving information to their school referee . Talking to anyone they know who has done the course or works in that field .

And they have benn doing this all around your son. Talking about it at lunchtime and breaks, at free periods and in the library . Discussing it on social media. Setting up snap chat groups. Spending evenings and weekend revising together.

And he has been in the middle of all this doing ???????

I'm sorry, but this lad is NOT interested in applying to some of the top universities in the next month. He might be telling that you he is. But his behaviour says otherwise.

user7214743615 · 18/12/2016 18:51

A significant fraction of university applicants have not yet finalised their applications. Indeed, UCAS application numbers are down relative to this time last year. I think it would be unfair to dismiss all late applicants as not really being interested in going to university.

2rebecca · 18/12/2016 19:00

If he does better than expected there is the option of clearing. I'm not sure whether or not you need to have applied to UCAS before the Jan deadline to be eligible for clearing though.
I agree he seems overly laid back about it for an engineer though and should have been sorting this sort of stuff out weeks/ months ago.

DurdleDurdle · 18/12/2016 19:14

If he does better than expected there is the option of clearing

If he does better than expected he would use 'adjustment' not clearing. They are two different things. Entering adjustment means you can look around at other courses while retaining your original firm offer. Only about a thousand odd applicants out of around 500,000 use adjustment UCAS info HERE

Passmethecrisps · 18/12/2016 19:27

He can also use Extra if he gets no offers from his first 5 or rejects them. He can make a new application, have that one considered and so on. They tend not to be the top flight courses or institutions though.

He can use clearing without having applied by January 15th. He can actually still apply after that but he won't be given equal consideration.

Op's son has lots of options if uni is what he wants. I tell my students that there will always be a place for them if they show potential and willing. Not the case however if they get stuck in a day dream of what course and institution they will consider.

2rebecca · 18/12/2016 19:33

I think with science/ maths based courses taking a year out can risk you losing a lot of your knowledge and then struggling in first year. I'd have thought language courses may have the same problem unless you're using the year to speak more of that language.

bojorojo · 19/12/2016 01:05

I can't see Bristol or Warwick needing to consider someone with a D grade at A level. Therefore look at universities that have lower requirements. There are quite a few. He will need to do the research and think about his personal statement if this is all a bit last minute. Not all 6th formers are so totally obsessed as Kr1sina describes. Even engineers! He will need to think about what type of engineering and some institutions really won't be too fussy about A levels but the top ones will. A gap year won't be a bad thing if it is focussed on Engineering! If he has no other engineering skills to write about, a gap year could be useful. Is there an engineering course he could do in one year ?

Kr1stina · 19/12/2016 07:39

I don't think that ALL 6th formers are as concerned as I describe . Just most of the very bright one trying to get into the most demanding courses at the best universities . Which is how the OP describes her son .

Which is any I think there's something else going on. And it was my my son I want to understand that, in order to know how best to help him .

Kr1stina · 19/12/2016 07:39

Why is why I think there's something else going on

TheMortificadosDragon · 19/12/2016 08:45

Probably all exam based - he's really not good at course work.

That bothers me, for someone who thinks they want to do an engineering degree. Has he been to any open days or looked at course structure? Most of them include a lot of course work - practical labs, projects, group work.

Reading your posts, it really doesn't seem as though he's got his head around the realities. Does he even know which type of engineering course he wants to do? AFAIK Warwick only offers General Eng. (which is fine if he's unsure) but I couldn't see it listed for Bristol which you also mentioned.

You need to have a serious chat with him and also get to the bottom of these grade predictions and how he did in AS. He should have been able to find the UMS for each maths/FM module, so that he knows which (if any) he needs to retake this summer. If he wants to get an offer to do engineering anywhere like 'top' then he needs at least ABB (that might get a BEng offer somewhere good). Get him to find the course content and requirements for the courses he's interested in and help him work out where he could sensibly apply to - one or two optimistic "aspirational" choices, a couple more which are more in line with his predictions and one lower. It's not hard to find details on the internet. If the websites aren't entirely clear, he can try emailing admissions tutors (some of them are really helpful)

While he may want to go to a 'top uni', it simply won't happen unless he can get good grades. But from what you've said about him - 'top' places may expect a lot of self-motivation, he might do better somewhere that expects to have to do more directed teaching. I'm not sure how you can help him assess this aspect realistically.

If he can come up with a sensible list then he may as well apply - he might get some offers or invitation to some applicant/inverview days which might make it all a bit more concrete for him. But you can discuss a plan B - a gap year doing Comp Sci at a college might be a useful transition between school and uni. Maybe he could also do some sort of practical project - I don't know if a college might allow him to do an EPQ (my DD, who's in the midst of applying for elec eng, did an 'artefact' epq to design and build a robot - very good personal statement material, demonstrates engagement and practical ability, and some places will discount their offer by one grade if she can get a A grade for it).

Best wishes.

Original poster
JudithTaverner · 19/12/2016 08:51

I saw him briefly before I left for work this morning. he swears the prediction comes from his summer exam mark.

He doesn't have the email address of his maths teacher, but I'm going to try to find it out and email him.

Whoever picked on me saying"we" in the title - this is what happens when I leave it to him (at his request - he is really reluctant to involve me even now). And yes, it does make me really worry about how he'll cope in university and life generally really. Perhaps a gap year will do him some good after all.

OP posts:
TheMortificadosDragon · 19/12/2016 09:12

Judith - what AS grades did he get? (He might or might not have done physics AS as that's new format, but he must know them for the maths and fm) Does he know what UMS he got for each module? Is he expecting to resit some modules this summer?

Thing is - my DD reckons she messed up a few questions, she still got A for maths and FM, and is predicted A and A/A .

Bluntness100 · 19/12/2016 09:18

I don't have issues with gap years as such, but as I said in a previous post he has to have a plan for that, and do something constructive.

Email the school and ask for the maths teachers email address. ThI maths teacher will explain why he's predicting this grade and what if anything your son can do to pull it back.

I'd be more concerned about his plans to be honest. Sit him down and try to get him to talk to you about what his plans are exactly and what he wants.

It all feels a bit undetermined at the moment, no clear uni, no clear degree choice, no clear plan for a gap year , no understanding of what to do if he fails the exam, i.e. if he can retake a year and if so where, when does he apply. The wisdom of taking a gap year then simply sitting the exam again, would the predictions be the same if he's done no further work or maybe even less, what is the timing of the exam resit and how does that impact ucas applications, would he need to delay a year post the resit, if the predictions were the same, giving him two years off.

It's a hard one, but as he's in this situation and not willing to involve you I think it's now important to get involved.

TheMortificadosDragon · 19/12/2016 09:29

I'd ask the teacher for more than one prediction:

  1. what do you think DS could achieve
  2. what do you realistically think he will achieve
  3. which of these (or other) would you put on the UCAS application

If (3) is AAD then I'm not sure there is any point applying to a uni which requires a B (let alone A) in the 3rd subject. While some courses will allow tradeoff eg A*AB/AAA, I've not seen any (of the 'good' places we've looked at for elec eng) with C grades in their offers.

EnormousTiger · 19/12/2016 09:58

I do feel the parent here has less information than most of us (even me and I am the opposite of a helicopter parent). Eg have you seen his AS grades (if he did AS rather than just school exams)? Has he brought home the final exam certificates yet - mine have and they are in the exam certs file at home for later reference when they apply for jobs etc?

EvilTwins · 19/12/2016 10:06

The OP can ask the maths teacher for as many and varied predicted grades as she likes but it's not up to her what goes on the form. Predicted grades go in with the reference and the school is in control of that.

Schools have to be honest with UCAS grade predictions. It does no one any favours if schools over or under predict.

And please, leave it til after Christmas. OP, if you email the school asking for contact details for the maths teacher and they don't get back to you, then you will get left wondering if they got the message or if the office was closed and then if the maths teacher is deliberately ignoring you.

And as I said upthread - the maths teacher is on holiday. It is not his/her fault that your DS has left this to the las minute. Have some consideration for that individual and his/her family. No one wants to work when they're on leave.

Original poster
JudithTaverner · 19/12/2016 12:27

He got AAB AS levels. But I don't really understand how this equates to the D mark tbh. (He talks about a very high maths grade bringing the low further maths grade up. )

OP posts:
DurdleDurdle · 19/12/2016 12:31

Was the AAB maths, further maths and physics? Or was it maths, physics and chemistry?

If it's maths, further maths and physics then it's hard to see why he would be predicted AAD?

Helenluvsrob · 19/12/2016 12:32

Apply this year. If nothing else to have gone through the priscess heavily supported by school will be good experience for next year.

DurdleDurdle · 19/12/2016 12:32

Do you have his actual AS results with the module grades on?

SoupDragon · 19/12/2016 12:46

He talks about a very high maths grade bringing the low further maths grade up

I'm not sure this is how it works. DS1 did maths, further maths, economics physics and biology last summer. 4 were actual ASs and the further maths was "just" modules. The AAB might have been just the 3 ASs, and not the further maths modules (although your DS might have done something different to mine!)

User006point5 · 19/12/2016 13:49

I think it's possibly a mistake. Has DS asked the teacher? Or is he just assuming the school is right?

bojorojo · 19/12/2016 14:27

i have just looked at Northumbria. They use UCAS tariffs and you could do Civil Engineering with AAD if I have read their entry requirements correctly. 120 minimum and that could be 48x2 plus 24 for the D. Other universities are bound to be similar and there are jobs out there afterwards. My DH has just employed a graduate from there. It is often perfectly acceptable to go to less prestigious universities because the courses are still good. Not everyone will get to Warwick et al. Northumbria and similar universities also offer a year in industry and that can be beneficial. Northumbria student came to DHs company via this route.
Can you find out what type of engineering he would like? What has he taken an interest in? Built environment, power, designing machines, etc? General engineering is not offered in many places and usually requires MEng to narrow down a specialism. Also lots of engineering graduates end up in finance so engineering is a means to a different end for some and the more prestigious the university, the more this happens.

However, you need to understand how his A levels and AS levels are structured. Not all students get the same grade in FM as they do in Maths. Therefore if you are not really really strong in maths it can be a gamble to have it as a third A level.

goodbyestranger · 19/12/2016 14:50

That's absolutely correct about surplus ordinary Maths AS modules bringing a lower Further Maths mark up. In June DS4 got 100% (or full ums for purists) on three AS maths papers (Core 1, Core 2 and Mechanics 1) and 97% on the fourth (statistics). The lowest mark of 97 moved across to FM to add to the FM modules (FP1 and Mechanics 2) and the overall effect was to boost his average. I don't know any more than that - I think the rule must be that the lowest score moves across? Evil Twins will know.