The bank of Mum and Dad is running dry

[Isabelle112]

DS, second year uni. Spending hard. His loan for this term has almost disappeared and it was pretty generous to start with. We pay his monthly rent.

He hasn't learnt any lessons, it seems, from last year. Night clubs, bars, pretty pricey clothes and haircuts at almost £50 a time.The money is disappearing and he's hinting that he'll want a fair amount for his birthday (very soon) for more clothes etc. Last year, we bailed him out again and again and vowed we wouldn't do so to that extent again, barring an emergency. He seemed to agree and see the sense of it when he started the second year.

I work f-t and have a p-t job and DH is on a very low wage. We're also supporting another DS who's graduated but barely working at the moment.

Uni DS doesn't have a job and is usually very reluctant to work during the holidays. This Christmas he'll have an excuse, I suppose - in January he has to re-take a first year exam which he failed - he also failed the Summer re-sit and this will be his final chance. That and year 2 Spring exams.

I think he's studying but it worries the hell out of me that he's spending so much and is out so much - he had promised us that this year would be different. That in the second year he'd actually budget and restrict going out to meals and bars etc to reasonable limits.

Apparently, he now has a pretty substantial o/d and although I don't obviously know the exact state of his account, I think there isn't much left of the loan.

To be honest, we're pretty skint - money is tight. I know tough love is the answer but what I do I do when DS tells me, possibly sooner rather than later, that his money has run out or he's reached his o/d limit? I'm prepared to give him £50.00 for his birthday (Christmas is coming) but he's going to expect a great deal more, I fear.

Any suggestions as to how to cope and what to do? DH and I work our socks off but our DSs have, very sadly, rarely felt compelled to do so themselves. Many thanks.

I think lots of DC need help with budgeting when they go to uni - the money they are given seems a lot if you are not used to paying for things and most 18 year olds still need some parenting and guidance.

DC allow ex to control their student loan -DS (1st year) is currently given money weekly . Hopefully, this is helping him understand that he can only spend a fixed amount per week - it has also prompted him to get a term time job and he is asking his old employer here if they can give him some work in the holidays. DD is 3rd year - she is brilliant at budgeting and gets money into her account monthly now. She also has worked consistently through uni. This seems to have worked well as she tells me her debt is considerably less than her friends.

Is dd2 the only undergraduate who lives on her maintenance loan? It's c.£5k and she pays rent, bills, food and social events out of that. We put an occasional £50 on her Sainsbury's card and pay for trips home. Dd3 started in September and earns £30 a week and so far hasn't asked us for any money. Maybe we are mean Obviously if they asked us for money for a particular reason we would pay but they never do!

And OP, I do think that you and your DH need to look at yourselves in all of this.

For some reason, you are both babying a grown man and that has contributed to this situation. You both need to work out what is at the root of that.

Are you both feeling a bit sad that the children have grown up? Do you want them to feel dependent on you? To make you both feel needed? To fill a big gap in your lives?

Because that would be entirely understandable. But you can't make your children entirely responsible for your own happiness.

Have you thought about stopping the part-time job and pursuing new interests just for yourselves? Walking, knitting, fishing, get a dog, a DIY project. All quite cheap. That would solve some of the money issue (if you pack in your second job you don't have spare money to give to them) and also give you a different perspective. Your children can sort themselves out, with your kind support of course.

hippyhippyshake

Is dd2 the only undergraduate who lives on her maintenance loan? It's c.£5k and she pays rent, bills, food and social events out of that.

I wish! Our dc's loan of around 5.5k doesn't even cover the rent.

Please do not enable him any longer OP.

Last year DS1's maintaince loan came to us and we topped it up and paid his rent and gave him £60 a week to live off. This year the loan has gone to him (minimum amount again £3800). We topped this up so that he would, when the other instalments came in, have enough rent money to last up to the end of June 2017 when he has to move out. We do pay his bills but up to now the amounts have been negligible as he tries to save a bit out of the £60 for bills. If he comes home we do pay his train fare, but he does look for the cheapest fares.

He has just got himself a part time job.

It's a hard time for young adults learning how budgeting works etc but until they have to do it to keep themselves afloat they will never take it seriously.

I made some stupid mistakes when I was that age financially and my parents did exactly what I did. They sat me down and showed me a budget plan and costed out living expenses so I always had figures to go by.
What they stopped doing was giving me hand outs as and when I got stuck and admittedly it took a few tight scrape by months to get straight but once I had a really learnt to understand how it all works and still live by that plan now at 37.
By teaching them now your giving them the tools and support to be independent rather than relying on everyone else to sort them out.

I have the odd month (like now!) where I am really really budgeting due to Christmas and having three children but I still have money left before payday for emergencies so it works

Another one here who wonders if he is depressed, and this is why he is not coping with managing his money and his work.

Why is it up to you to fix him up with a job etc, he's an adult, he needs to grow up and step up.

I'd tell him that unless he gets his budget under control you will do an online food order for him each week/fortnight instead of sending him money.
My parents paid my essentials, but if I wanted money for partying /holidays etc I paid it myself from holiday jobs (and they are pretty wealthy).

I realised I lied gleam ! The first term we pay the rent as the loan comes in too late. We always say we will get it back out of the loan but we never do. So there's an extra £1000 there for them to spend. The first year is always tight as uni flats have abominably high rents but when they go into a house, especially a 5/6 bed share then the price should come down quite a bit.

I know you want to help your DS but enabling him isn't doing that, he needs to learn to stand on his own two feet. Help doesn't have to be financial, if you want to help give him practical support to make a budget and get a job and then insist he sticks to it. Struggling with the bills his first time living away from home would be a bit understandable but he's taking the piss with designer clothes and £50 haircuts. Can you afford that? No? Then why should he using your money?! He needs boundaries.

I can't believe how much some people support their children financially!

When I was at uni I got the bare minimum student loan. It covered my rent with nothing to spare. I worked a Sunday job earning £125 a month and my parents contributed another £100 per month. It was tough living on so little but I managed. I worked more hours in summer to save money to go back with the following year and my parents would do me a food shop every now and again if I came home to visit.

Hmm, what did him not unpacking signify?

From my student experience, absolutely nothing. There were those who unpacked and made everything homely, and those who just lived out of a bag, never washed up and lived in utter squalor. Each group contained people who were contented and coping and people who were depressed and collapsing. Some young adults just don't see the point in unpacking or washing up or cleaning.

In my all female house we mainly only cleaned out of terror of a parental visit. Otherwise we lived in a hovel. This was pretty normal. It says something to me that he doesn't respect you enough to do an emergency whip round but just leaves it for you to sort.

I suggest you start trying to treat both your sons as adults. Lots of conversations about how the bank of mum and dad only exists because you work very hard and you were prepared to do this and fund them while they were in full-time education but this money has a limit, you are skint, and once not in education if still in the family home you expect rent, chores etc etc.

Also that part of being an adult is manageing a budget - if they can't do this you will give the money in installments but in smaller quantities as clearly they cannot handle the larger amounts. And you would expect access to their accounts if they are behaving like children - you do not spend £50 on a haircut so neither should they. You have worked your fingers to the bone for over 20 years for both of them and you are looking forward to your rewards!

I love what you've written Wolper.

Isabelle - as a comparison, let me tell you about my DS.

He is also in his second year at uni. It's one which attracts a lot of 'posh' students. 2 of his 3 house mates clearly come from much more affluent families than ours. DS has never had more than a few days' work. I've never pushed this as he plays a lot of sport and worked hard for his A levels. Perceived mumsnet wisdom is that this should make him feckless with money. On the contrary.

He has an active social life
Likes going to pubs and clubs
Likes nice clothes (but won't pay for labels)
Spends more than the average student on food I guess

He gets the minimum loan and we pay his rent. His loan kept him going for a whole calendar year last year and covered socialising when he was at home. He insisted on paying for his mobile phone out of his loan and frequently offered to contribute towards his rent. Occasionally we'll go clothes shopping together and it's a battle to get him to let me treat him. And although he's very appearance conscious he won't pay high prices for things. I hate the 'pre-drinks' culture but it means when they go to clubs he will only buy one or two drinks.

The only other money he gets is from birthdays and Xmas and his £200 uni rugby subs which are due around his birthday so that's his present.

So all of that should tell you that it is possible for your DS to live off his loan so don't feel guilty about not giving him any more. How you get him to manage his money better is another matter!

I don't know how you teach someone money sense. If you manage it for them they'll never learn. But some people are just made that way. I had a job as a student, ran out of money etc etc - I didn't really learn from that. My other 2 dcs are not great with money so I've no idea why one of them has turned out so well in that regard.

How much is the rent, though, stonecircle? There are lots of people on this thread with students paying next to nothing ( £1000 a term???). However most of us have paid way over that and in London there is next to no hall for under £6000 a year. House rents are not necessarily cheaper either. £100 plus plus per week is fairly common - for the full 52 weeks too! Finances are very different according to where you go to university. We have noted before that sports club fees can be huge. Comparing one student with another is quite futile unless the university is the same.

I think the only way out of this situation is to try and have a proper chat at Christmas. It does mean he needs to work in a club, rather than go to one, and try and wean himself off his expensive tastes. How did he get used to expensive haircuts anyway? Try and get to the bottom of the failed exams. What is going on and is it realistic for him to stay on the course? A lot of universities would have said he cannot stay before now. Is this the right course for him? Is the spending a mask for what is really happening. As he will be in your house, he is captive for a bit. Instead of getting angry, try and work out a budget together so he understands what is possible and what is not. Definitely use the loan to pay the accommodation. We always did that and had to top it up - a lot! We also gave a monthly allowance. If you have not saved, paying for university is a shock but your problems are made a lot worse by your Ds. He also has fun loving friends, apparently. Maybe they can afford all of this. As he cannot, a job is the only answer.

Bojo - I thought it was a good comparison as the op pays her DS's rent as do we. So, like my DS, the op's DS (if I've understood) lives on his loan. My DS gets the minimum loan; the op's DS must get at least the same but possibly more.

Unless the op's DS is in London I think it's a reasonable comparison.

I feel really sad that your DS doesn't seem to give a flying shit that you are working two jobs but then I am not sure my DC would.

My DS has the minimum loan which is being used towards the £6,000 accommodation fees (breakfast and evening meals included). We are making up the difference. I am also paying his car insurance and mobile phone bill.

I bought shed loads of toiletries and food for him to take and have also top this up by £100 so far.

He has had to work during the summer to save money. However although I have suggested a job might be a good idea he has totally ignored this. He will realize when he runs out of money

Isabelle, I agree that pricey clothes, shoes , haircuts etc don't come as read with a student experience, unless he's earned the money. So e.g. Ds wanted a better and nicer coat last year (1st year) - he got it for Christmas. My DS is at a university where the accommodation (catered) is relatively modest - not the cheapest but certainly nothing like what some friends of mine have reported from elsewhere.Also no car expenses. I'd be a little annoyed if he were spending his disposable income on haircuts and meals out without thinking through the term's expenses and the choices he has to make and expecting us to sub him. Luckily , he hasn't. Do his friends all do the same?

Nope, no way. Don't feel bad about trimming his expenses. He needs to learn. No labels, no expensive haircuts and he could have managed. He spent it on crap, his choice. He needs to get a job. Don't bail him out.

I agree with just about everything other users have said.

However, what I will add is that when he graduates it will be REALLY important to have some sort of work experience. Otherwise, he will

• have a CV that is almost blank (a degree, nowadays, is necessary but not sufficient to get a good job)
• have no examples which he can use to illustrate his answers to competency questions ("tell me about a time when you have demonstrated __ skill")
• employers will have no faith that he has learned skills like being reliable and turning up on time

... in summary, he will be at the bottom of the heap for graduate employment. Indeed, this is precisely how graduates end up doing call centre / bar work after they graduate.

The other advantage of making him get a job is that he will actually come to have an understanding of the reality of the world of work for those without degrees. There's nothing quite like a visceral knowledge of the drudgery that is bar work / waiting tables / call centres / leafleting / similar to motivate students to work hard - they know that they don't want to be doing that sort of work until they're 70, and the way to avoid it is by doing well at uni!

I note your reference to him having failed a module twice and being on his last chance. That's the most immediately worrying bit - I'm sure that the university will have no hesitation in throwing him out if he fails third time around as they have been more lenient than some universities would be. It's worth noting that because of the way Student Finance England works and the fact that he is now in second year, if he drops out of / is kicked out of uni, and wants to restart elsewhere, then he would need to fund the first year of his course himself upfront - there would be no tuition fee loan or maintenance loan until he was in second year. With £9k fees + living costs, that's a lot of money for anyone to find upfront...

Cut the cash off, direct him towards part time / agency jobs, and tell him to sort it out himself with a stern warning about the fact that you cannot afford the costs of him leaving and restarting his degree elsewhere. You're doing him no favours by allowing him to continue on this path, either now or in the future.

I am aghast that he 'won't work' and expects to spend at a rate that includes £50 haircuts and expensive clothes. I didn't have a £50 haircut until I was earning a professional wage. It isn't Made in Chelsea ffs!

The jobs that my DH and I did at uni include:

Shop work
Cleaning
Christmas postman, including nights
Bar work

Buy him a set of clippers for his Christmas present! My DH now earns a very good City salary and is more than happy with a DIY haircut.

Does he really want to be there OP. If he fails his resit he'll probably be out. The failed modules are actually quite serious and he's heading towards an "all the student debt and no degree" scenario. Decision required before Easter as that's when the second £4500 goes against the student loan. I think he needs out now really and to get a job.

Our DS is third year, his rent is about £6.5 pa which dh pays. He has about £1,300 a term, DH tops that up a bit during the last month. I pay his gym and phone and buy the odd book.

He wears normal student clothes, goes clubbing, does a bit of work to fund his extras, works over the summer and funds a Cpl holidays/festival each year.

He doesn't have an overdraft and asks nicely if he needs anything. Admittedly he has got nicer and more appreciative of home the longer he has been away.

What is your ds studying and what does he want to do op?

We did something about all that as we couldn't bear to see the mess he was living in

This, right here, is the nub of your problem. You have trained him (no doubt since birth) that if he simply waits, you'll pay for things AND do it yourself. Why didn't he unpack? Because a) he cba and b) he knew you'd take care of it if he left it. You also do not 'fix' a grown adult up with a job. You tell him he needs a job, and he finds one himself.

'But what if he's depressed?'
Well, then he needs treatment, not babying. Practically, you still don't clean up his room. You ask him if he's struggling and help enable him to seek out treatment. That's all you can do.

You aren't doing him any favours this way. As PPs mentioned, he's now at serious risk of failing out of uni and having no skills or work experience to get a job. You may need to spell it out for him and ask him what he'll do then. But for God's sake, if this does happen, DO NOT FIX IT FOR HIM.

You sound scared of him, tbh; what's going on there? You're working your fingers to the bone while he lives the high lifend and you're scared that if he 'only' gets £50 (even if you literally don't have more to spare) he'll be angry with you...?

OhtheRoses makes a very good point - he needs to decide if he wants to be there and get a degree at all.

Currently he's either going to have no degree and masses of debt or a very poor degree and no evidence of any employability and masses of debt.

Even if he gets his degree, he will be competing for jobs against people who have work experience, and much much better degrees than him. Which currently makes his whole degree look not worth much unless he gets his act together or solves whatever it is that is holding him back.