Gutted, selfish, but gutted.

[dotdotdotmustdash]

My Dd17 is currently spending a scholarship year in China studying Mandarin - it's a stand-alone scholarship she applied for during her final year of school and she's due to come home next summer. She's having a great time and has a boyfriend (one of last year's scholarship group who has been given a further 4-year scholarship).

She has applied for 2 courses for next year, one a vocational arts course and the other a languages course at a local top uni. I think gettin on the arts course is 50/50, but she has a very good chance for the languages course.

She broke the news to me yesterday that she's looking into applying for a full degree scholarship in China. I'm very upset. That would mean her leaving home at 17 and spending 5 years in China, with only a short trip (maybe 2) home every year. I was/am prepared for her to leave home for Uni, but this is so much more than that - effectively she's emigrating and I don't expect that she will ever come home to live. I wasn't ready for that and I regret giving her permission to apply for her current scholarship.

There's no guarantee that she'll get the scholarship, but she's pretty lucky and works hard so she probably will. I told her that I won't support her at all if she goes ahead. She did say that if she gets into the arts Uni (it's a Conservatoire) she'll come home, but she would rather do the languages course in China. I'm pretty sure some of this enthusiasm is coming from a relationship that's only a few weeks old.

How do I stay sane and do the right thing?

[anotherdayanothersquabble]

I haven't read the full thread but please think carefully.

My Mum encouraged me to be ambitious and to spread my wings but only on her terms. When she disapproved, it was clear and she rationed her support.

She travelled with my sister to and from university and helped set her up in a house etc. but when I choose a path that didnt fit with her ideal scenario, I had to make my way myself. There were times when other people's parents helped me out and I was very grateful for their kindness. I remember breaking down and sobbing when I was relying on three sets of other people's parents to get me from one job posting to another and being devestated that my parents had refused to help.

I now live abroad and my mother will not visit. It saddens me that she cannot see her grandchildren in their daily lives because she can't get over the fact that I didn't make my life near her. She still says, what did I do to drive my daughters away?

[rogueantimatter]

anotherday your DM sounds as if she is like my MIL (FWIW my DM had no ambition for me at all and I occasionally wonder if I would have been (even ) more successful if she had tried to instil more confidence in me)

From my reading of this thread the OP doesn't sound remotely like that. The degree in China doesn't sound like it would be the best option for her DD - as confirmed by plenty of other posters.

[EnormousTiger]

My parents encouraged us all to move away for studying and work. When they were older and ill and dying their cares who were local people could not understand the concept that our parents actually were very keen we forged successful lives elsewhere. Neither of us was wrong - it was just a different cultural perspective.

I would however start with a good UK or US university degree not one in China, if possible unless she wants to make a life out there.

[Headofthehive55]

anotherday I think the worst thing is for your mum would be to go and visit you. She will miss you then. If you don't visit or contact so much, they drop if your horizons and you think about people less. It doesn't hurt so much then. We have a relative in Oz. We don't talk about her to our children and try to have limited contact. although we missed her at first, we no longer do so but I think had we kept up lots if contact I think we would miss her.
I don't think your mum is being difficult, but perhaps doing what hurts less.

[Lazybeans50]

It would be an amazing opportunity for her - you shouldn't try to stop her from doing this. Let her make her own decisions. With Skype/FaceTime you will be able to have more contact with her than my parents did with me when I went off to a uni a few hours from home in the days before mobile phones.

[CustardShoes]

Off-topic but this:

We have a relative in Oz. We don't talk about her to our children and try to have limited contact. although we missed her at first, we no longer do so but I think had we kept up lots if contact I think we would miss her.

Is near to abusive & weird. I've been that child in a migrant family. I know what it is to be brought up without contact with extended family. It's crap - the least you can do is keep up contact.

[ohdearme1958]

OP, as someone who's children all went abroad for further education, one as far as Australia, and one to New Zealand, I have to say I think you're being really awful when you say you won't support her going to China. It's emotional blackmail and a horrible thing to do to her. You won't lose her if she does stay on in China but you more than likely will if you blackmail her into going to uni closer to home.

Did all of my children going to study abroad affect my relationship with them? No it didn't. We were close before they went and we're as close now.

And we could easily have skuppered our children going abroad as they depended on us for everything as overseas students. Fees. Food. Accommodation. Pocket money. Everything. But we didn't. We just went with it and told them don't ever be shy to say you've made a mistake and you'd rather be closer to home. That way if it did go wrong they knew they could come home without losing face. You meanwhile just might have a daughter wanting to come home but can't because of your views on her being away in the first place.

You really are playing with fire here OP.

[AddictedtoLove]

We did remind her before she went away that this might happen and sadly it did.

I really hope that IRL this wasn't the emotional blackmail that it sounds like here.

[BadToTheBone]

I had s scholarship to a foreign university , i was gone for 6 years and didn't even get home every year, I was once gone for 2 years and this was before social media. It was a fabulous experience and one that I would enthusiastically recommend for anyone else thinking of it.

I know it must've been harder for my parents but they never showed anything other than support and love. I love them so much for it.

I now live a 3 minute drive from their house, lol

[ohdearme1958]

I just saw the post about your FIL. How upsetting for all of you, and yes you will have missed your daughters presence at the funeral but she obviously felt able to cope with not being there and that's all there is too it really. But please do console her if she's upset during one of your calls because I think resisting the chance for you to say 'I told you so' might just be too much for you right now

[BadToTheBone]

Just read more of the thread and have seen that grandpa died recently. My Gran died whilst I was away and I missed the funeral as I had exams so couldn't just nip home. I arrived home weeks later. I spent s lot of time with my granddad and talked about my feelings for her, it was very helpful to both me and him and everyone knew I loved her but circumstances were against us. I've lost all of my grandparents now and my feelings are no different to my gran for missing her funeral, it's the life before that that was important.

[ohdearme1958]

Badtothebone - I agree, it's the life before that was important.

I missed my grandmas funeral because my son who's disabled couldn't be left on the day I was to make the 9 hour flight. And my son missed his grandmas funeral because of exams. It's life. Things happen. It doesn't take away from what came before.

[Bountybarsyuk]

Op, I think you are handling this ok, in an ideal world, we are happy and supportive about everything our children do, but in the real world, it's normal to be worried when you hear your dd is thinking of being abroad for five years from age 17 onwards. The fact that you supported her to go abroad aged 17 for a year to China shows you are not a smothering parent, quite the opposite. But decisions about where to live are emotional ones as well as practical ones, that's just the way it is and you can't stop people feeling sadness when their children choose to live abroad, even if you are happy they are independent enough to do so.

I think you are doing the right thing keeping the lines of communication open.

Also, I have a phobia myself so am sympathetic, but I'm sure part of your distress is because you feel you can't do long-haul, or indeed any flying. Can you make this your next thing to tackle? As it seems likely your adventurous daughter may go abroad again even if not to study in China for undergrad.

[rogueantimatter]

It's not just going abroad though, is it? It's going to China, with its poor record of human rights, pollution, and universities with a poorer reputation than the ones OP's DD can go to here for ill-thought out reasons. The new boyfriend..... OP's DD has a medical condition too.

The Chinese students who come here come to our universities because they have a better reputation than the Chinese universities. Also to learn English, but there are plenty of first language mandarin speakers in Scotland who can provide high quality mandarin tuition.

[Headofthehive55]

We spend all our energies facilitating contact with closer relatives custard . Very little point in our children getting to know a relative they will hardly ever see. She left the UK before they knew her. It's not abusive - just reality I'm afraid.

[dotdotdotmustdash]

I really hope that IRL this wasn't the emotional blackmail that it sounds like here

Nope, it was just preparing her for a possible reality as she hadn't lost any Grandparents or anyone close to her before. Unfortunately it came true within 3 months of her leaving. I don't emotionally blackmail my daughter.

I'm saddened by how many posters on MN jump to the conclusion that an event like this will cause divisions in our family, or for me to push her away. It's sad because others must have had more fragile relationships with their parents. My Dd and I are fine, and I reckon we always will be even if I'm grumpy about her plans. I guess, if I had to, I would tackle the flying thing, but I'd prefer to pay her air-fare home than for me to fly there.

She's still talking about coming home to go to Uni and hasn't mentioned the China option yet, although I acknowledge that it might still be a quiet option. Time will tell.

[ohdearme1958]

I'm saddened by how many posters on MN jump to the conclusion that an event like this will cause divisions in our family, or for me to push her away. It's sad because others must have had more fragile relationships with their parents. My Dd and I are fine, and I reckon we always will be even if I'm grumpy about her plans. I guess, if I had to, I would tackle the flying thing, but I'd prefer to pay her air-fare home than for me to fly there

OP, hold your horses there hen. It's you who feels so fragile that you can't stand the thought of her being away for any length of time in case you miss her too much. It's you who'd rather not conquer you're fear of flying in order to go and visit her. It's just all about you you you.

And I suppose not conquering your fear of flying and buying your girl a ticket instead is another way of making sure she's where you want her - at home keeping you company. So how about you conquer you're fear of flying so that if she does say to you one day hey mum, I'm not coming home this holiday, I want to go somewhere else instead whilst I'm in this part of the world - you can say to her, no problem love, use your ticket money instead of coming home and I'll come to see you instead.

Now wouldn't that be something.

[Headofthehive55]

I do think it's right that people speak up though. You dismiss fear of flying as nothing. It can be quite debilitating and not easily got over.

I think it is the person who's gone away responsibility to do the travelling.

[ohdearme1958]

I do think it's right that people speak up though. You dismiss fear of flying as nothing. It can be quite debilitating and not easily got over

On the contrary its because I had to get over my own very real fear of flying that I know getting over it can at least be attempted. I used to board an aircraft after taking sedation and not go to the loo for 8 hours because I was scared to walk when the plane was in the air. Then one day I decided I had to sort myself out as it really was becoming ridiculous but I was fortunate in having a son and son in law who are flight deck crew and they helped me. In fact it was seeing them and my cabin crew DIL go off to work as if they were going to the shops that made me think maybe you could fly like that one day - and now I do. And I know I was fortunate in having family who flew for a living but it was when I said to them I was going to do one of the fear of flying courses that they said to me - if you're ready to tackle this there's no need to do a course, just come with us.

I think it is the person who's gone away responsibility to do the travelling

Im not sure how that works in the grand scheme of things. Ive lived away from the UK for 40 years. Should my family and friends never have come to visit because Im the one who left? Or does it only apply if someone has a fear of flying? Would I travel to see someone who had a real fear of flying? Yes, I would. But I think I'd only do it so long if the person I was visiting had decided trying to overcome their terror wasn't for them.

[AddictedtoLove]

I think it is the person who's gone away responsibility to do the travelling

That's a very inflexible, self-righteous point of view. And I agree with ohdearme that the OP is the one who's projecting her fragility onto her DD.

[Headofthehive55]

I don't really believe in forcing or expecting others to do something. Whether that is stopping someone go abroad through emotional blackmail or expecting someone to overcome fears of flying or spend hard earned money on trips instead of other things you were needing to spend money on.

It's a bit much to make the decision to go abroad and then keep wanting family to visit.

[ohdearme1958]

Headofthieves I think your grasping at straws and I hope that one day the sad situation with your family member who lives abroad is different.

[Headofthehive55]

I think it's hardly sad ohdear. She is doing what's she wants, and that's fine with us. However we aren't going to go and see her - it costs far too much. They do drop to the back of your mind when they aren't there.

[MrsPeelyWally]

They do drop to the back of your mind when they aren't there

If it suits you.

[Headofthehive55]

Life goes on. I find sharing activities with family cements bonds, shared experiences weaves our lives together. When you don't see someone in the flesh due to distance, it often happens that the relationship drifts.