Maths / Physics Entry Requirements

[1234Littleham]

My daughter is doing four AS Levels at the moment at her sixth form comprehensive (Maths, Further Maths, Physics and one other).

Do universities count Further Maths as an A Level in their entry requirements?
So if she dropped the fourth subject would she be fine applying for Maths & Physics related degrees with FM, Maths and Physics A levels?

My DS was convinced (by his older sister & others) that if you did 4 A2 they would offer you based on 4 A2 results, whereas if you took 3 you got offers on 3.

He did Further Maths AS level spread over 2 years (didn't realise he wanted to study Maths a Uni until well into Yr 12), but said if he HAD taken it to full A2 then his offers would have been to get an A or A* at Further Maths as well as just the Maths.
A friend was declined some offers to do Maths because his predicted FM A2 grade was a B, even though he was a solid A* at Maths - the unis want the highest grade at the highest Maths exam you can take, even though all the courses start as if no-one has taken FM and the whole syllabus is covered in first few weeks.

even though all the courses start as if no-one has taken FM and the whole syllabus is covered in first few weeks.

The top few places don't cover FM in the first few weeks - they assume this knowledge. The rest of the top 20 or so universities do indeed cover FM in the first semester.

He did Further Maths AS level spread over 2 years (didn't realise he wanted to study Maths a Uni until well into Yr 12), but said if he HAD taken it to full A2 then his offers would have been to get an A or A at Further Maths as well as just the Maths.*

It is very rare for maths offers to be based on four A2 grades.

Virtually no universities outside COWI would ask for a second A star. TBH if a student cannot get an A in FM they should be asking themselves if it's a good idea to study maths at a top 10 university. However if they just miss an A in FM they will still get accepted at most of the top 20 (outside the top 6).

It sounds to me as though these students were getting poor guidance about university maths courses i.e. which ones are the most competitive and which would be more likely to accept a dropped grade.

TBH if a student cannot get an A in FM they should be asking themselves if it's a good idea to study maths at a top 10 university.

Agree with this but the tricky bit is telling ahead whether the student will get this mark. Everyone is playing a bit of a guessing game - teachers, university admissions, students & parents. DD will apply for universities before she knows how well FM is going. Teachers at parents evening are telling her that she should apply so we can only go with flow and see what happens.

So far she has ordered the following prospectuses - Bath, Bristol, Warwick, Exeter, Southampton, Surrey, Royal Holloway, York, Durham. She wants good range to play safe.

Any other suggestions for her to look at?

Nottingham? Manchester?

Leeds?

But a teacher who is used to teaching AS + A2 Maths in year 12 followed by AS + A2 FM in year 13 should be able to give a reasonably accurate prediction of how the pupil will do in FM. I don't think it is less accurate than predicting grades for maths based on AS Maths and FM in year 12.

That is good news. I suppose they keep records about past performance of pupils at different stages.

Thanks for the other suggestions. I'll pass them on.

DD now has offers for Theoretical Physics, or Physics from all 5 that she applied for: Bath A*AA, York AAA (after interview), Sheffield AAB, Royal Holloway unconditional (after an interview) and Edinburgh (can't remember grades, think AAB). She is doing 4 A levels, Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry.

She has applied for integrated Masters courses, so 4 years, where available.

She has firmed York with Sheffield as insurance, though was a little bit tempted by the unconditional!

Good luck to your dd littleham some fab choices of uni. I would also say maybe think about Nottingham, someone in dd 6th form was offered AAB physics from there if they firmed them, otherwise is 3A.

DD has dropped chemistry and doing 3 A levels instead of 4. Bath said they were alright about it phew!. Now it's matter of deciding on insurance. AAB surrey or 3A bristol. . It's risky having 3A's as insurance but she says that now she's dropped chemistry she feels more confident achieving it. I'm leaving it to her now. I'm done with stressing. Plan A she goes to her 1st choice PlanB she's goes to insurance, Plan C going to clearing. At very worst take a year off and resit get a part time job too. She will get there in the end

She dropped biology not chemistry ugh long day need

You have to check the specific course information for the specific university to see how they handle Further Mathematics.

You can find that all out on UCAS course search.

You can't infer what one university will accept from what a different one does. You have to get the info straight from the horse's mouth.

BTW, DS did engineering at UCL with Maths, Further Maths and Physics. His interview was a complex maths problem. They love maths!

Ds has two friends taking physics
One at Durham with 3 A levels and the other at Manchester who got 3 A* and one A and had to wait until 8pm on results day to know if they would still take him because he hadnt met the offer.
My ds is taking mech eng and got reduced offer for Bristol because he had FM.

Thanks Granny. Added Nottingham to list of prospectuses for her to study. Glad to hear about Bath allowing the three A Levels for your dd. Good news.

Will definitely double check each course requirement during Open Days Gin. I don't think my dd wants to go to London - too much of a jump from village life and way too expensive with accommodation. She is hovering between smaller cities and campus ones at the moment.

Interesting about the reduced offer for FM.

My Dc found that the cost of accommodation in london was less than the equivalent at Birmingham so don't just assume its cheaper outside London. plus a lot of comments on here that st Andrews is difficult to find cheap places to live after the first year in halls so there are quite a lot of things to weigh in the balance. my dc really likes bath and Exeter. bath is all about science, no arts subjects. leeds is insurance offer as it is pretty low.

when thinking about accommodation think of what your dd really wants. is she happy to share a bathroom, share a bedroom, share a flat with 15. we actually are a bit anal in our family so did a notebook on each uni we visited so that we could compare like with like. found it really useful to go back and read up the max number in a flat or the cost of self catering that sort of thing.

its an exciting but quite stressful time so glad that we started looking round really early as it firmed up what she wanted to do MMaths, and why. have 2 others to get through the process so at least feel a bit more confident going forward with them now.

OP DD only did 3 A levels - Maths FM and Physics her 4th AS level subject was not a STEM subject and she dropped it to concentrate on getting top grades in her required subjects.
She applied for Oxford but didn't get to the interview stage, she didn't apply to any London unis as we live in the area and she wanted to go somewhere with a campus feel.
With her 3 A levels she had offers for Physics from Birmingham, Bath, Durham and St Andrews.
Her 3 friend all with 3 similar A levels (though not FM) are training to be a Vet and studying medicine both at top unis and the other is doing a STEM subject at Cambridge, they all needed the high grades A*AA minimum but only 3 A levels.

Interesting about the reduced offer for FM.

A number of places do offer one grade lower with FM e.g. AAA instead of AAA*.