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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Maths / Physics Entry Requirements

92 replies

1234Littleham · 16/01/2016 11:39

My daughter is doing four AS Levels at the moment at her sixth form comprehensive (Maths, Further Maths, Physics and one other).

Do universities count Further Maths as an A Level in their entry requirements?
So if she dropped the fourth subject would she be fine applying for Maths & Physics related degrees with FM, Maths and Physics A levels?

OP posts:
NiceCardigan · 16/01/2016 17:27

None of DD2's friends did local placements, one was in Zurich! And only one of her group has gone to their placement company for a job. Since a very high number of each year do a work placement some are using it as a stepping stone to other things and others are using it to get a job as quickly as possible.

Original poster
1234Littleham · 16/01/2016 17:47

in practice much better maths/physics departments/universities do accept AAB even when their official offer is AAA/A*AA

I really wish they would say so. Methinks a crystal ball would be extremely useful for this process.

OP posts:
jeanne16 · 16/01/2016 17:51

Just wanted to say that my DD did a course where FM was recommended but not essential. All the students she knew who embarked on it without FM really struggled with the course and most switched at the end of their first year. So I would recommend anyone starting uni in Sep/Oct without FM should do a lot of work over the summer catching up.

jeanne16 · 16/01/2016 17:54

Also to the OP, if your DD is capable of it, she should keep the 4 A levels going to give her the best chance of a top uni place.

lljkk · 16/01/2016 18:29

kind of dumb question... what degree do people do if they are very mathy but not mathy enough to want an actual degree in math. I mean you could say any science or engineering, but which science/engineerings are most heavy in maths without being math degrees? I can only think physics...?

Decorhate · 16/01/2016 19:03

If she is only going to be doing 2 A levels in Y13 (though obviously covering all the FM modules in one year) I would double check with admissions at all the universities she is planning to apply to. Just in case that makes a difference.

Decorhate · 16/01/2016 19:06

lijkk I did engineering decades ago and there was a lot of maths. More than you would ever need to prepare you to work as an engineer tbh. Though obviously many people do an engineering degree and then do something else for a career.

mumsneedwine · 16/01/2016 19:23

One of mine is doing maths at Cambridge and has maths, further maths and physics. Only a few people on her course have 4 A levels. She loves it - it just looks like a load of sguiggly numbers to me

mumsneedwine · 16/01/2016 19:24

All 3 must be sat in one sitting. Doesn't matter if have 16 A levels - if 3 aren't sat at same time they will not count them (admissions tutor told a v pushy kid on interview day)

Original poster
1234Littleham · 16/01/2016 19:51

Thanks mumsneedwine. So there is the view that four A levels might be preferable but if they like the look of you then three are acceptable.

It all looks like squiggly numbers to me as well, which makes it difficult to advise.

OP posts:
Original poster
1234Littleham · 16/01/2016 19:53

By one sitting do they mean cashed in at the same time? My dd's sixth form teaches Further Maths and Maths through the two years, with most of the Maths being in yr 12 and most of the FM in year 13.

OP posts:
disquisitiones · 16/01/2016 20:12

One of mine is doing maths at Cambridge and has maths, further maths and physics. Only a few people on her course have 4 A levels.

Maybe from her college, but statistically most maths students do have 4 A levels. Some colleges (including mine) make offers based on 4 i.e. not just the base offer of AAA plus STEP but specific grades for 4 A2 plus STEP.

It is very common for maths and FM to be taught as in OP's school: the maths A2 in year 12 is not discounted (or at least not usually) from the three. But I agree it would be best to check this with all courses of interest.

Aeronautical engineering is typically the engineering degree which is most heavy in maths (lots of applied maths, fluid mechanics). Mechanical engineering is pretty heavy in maths; civil and electronic engineering less so. In most universities engineers will be taught a couple of maths modules by the maths department for all 3/4 years.

Original poster
1234Littleham · 16/01/2016 20:37

Very useful thanks. I'll tell her she needs to keep up four A levels if she want to follow that path. For other places it looks like three will be fine.

OP posts:
bojorojo · 19/01/2016 11:02

Usually in one sitting means all A level exams to be taken in the May/June at the end of the 2 year course in Y13. If they are spread out over 2-3 years then the load at the end of the course is lighter and does not show that the student works under pressure. This is what the top universities want to see in applicants. They do not think taking exams early is necessarily a good thing. However, others are more qualified to explain this, I am sure.

Original poster
1234Littleham · 19/01/2016 13:25

Thanks. She doesn't have any choice about the Math and FM being scattered over the two years as that is just the way the school arranges matters.

I'm guessing that by 'top universities' you mean places like Oxford, Cambridge & Imperial. She is probably aiming for places like Bath (although school trying to persuade her to apply to one of the former). Interestingly I just found this on Bath's website....

Question

My school teaches the whole of A level Maths in year 12 and we take our exams then. We then do the whole of Further Maths in year 13. Is that ok, because some universities seem to think you have an advantage if you are only sitting two A levels in year 13?
Answer
We do not mind.

OP posts:
aginghippy · 19/01/2016 13:47

That's good to know Littleham. My dd is in the same situation, doing all of maths in Y12, all of FM in Y13. She is adamant that she doesn't want to do 4 A levels, though.

I can't see how universities can hold it against a candidate, if it is something that is entirely outside their control. It's the school's decision to teach it that way.

disquisitiones · 19/01/2016 13:49

Bath's response applies equally well to COWI (Oxbridge, Warwick and Imperial). It would be ludicrous to hold an applicant responsible for their school's teaching patterns and this way of teaching maths is currently quite common.

Original poster
1234Littleham · 19/01/2016 14:05

Thanks. It is really helpful to know this information.

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 19/01/2016 14:57

Littleham, I assume that one reason why so many maths candidates offer 4 A levels is that for a good mathematician the Maths/FM combination is nowhere near as much work as two humanities A levels. So much easier to slip an extra one in. (The reverse is true for a struggling mathematician, where A level maths can become a bit of a mountain to climb.)

The other thing is that A level grades in subjects like maths/physics tend to be easier to predict. So a strong candidate can be reasonably confident that they will meet a typical Cambridge A A A offer, whilst achieving the same grades in humanities subjects is much more uncertain.

A couple of DCs friends have had truely challenging offers for maths based subjects. One had a tough 5 A level offer from Imperial and another a 4 x A* offer from Cambridge. I assume they were slightly marginal candidates being give the benefit of the doubt (happy to be corrected). The question then is would they have got these offers at all had they been offering 3 A levels.

mumsneedwine · 19/01/2016 15:17

They don't need 4. Admissions tutors are very clear at open day and say offers will be based on 3. Things have changed due to no cashing in and more linear exams. Once AS levels go the rules will change again. The admissions people know that many state schools only allow 3 and schools will say this in their reference. Mine staying on to do Masters now (thankfully fully funded), and talking about PhD.

Needmoresleep · 19/01/2016 15:40

"need" or "is useful". DS did not "need" FM, and it did not form part of his offer, but had the good advice that it was better to learn as much maths as he could at school. It is known that not all pupils can take four, and entry requirements reflect this. However there can be advantages in taking four, if a pupil has the capacity to do so and the school offers it. It first means they will be applying with a proven level of organisation, but also allows for flexibility. DD is finding A2 physics far more interesting than AS and is now starting to say that should she not get a medicine offer, she might want to reapply for physics or chemistry. Because she has a greater range from taking more than 3 A levels, she should be able to, indeed probably would pick up a place in clearing.

Original poster
1234Littleham · 19/01/2016 16:50

Shock Shock Shock at those offers Needmoresleep.

I now understand that they only 'need' 3 A levels but that 4 A levels might be useful or add some sparkle. I know that most people around here end up doing three at A2 level.

As you say mumneedswine things are changing a bit. The Physics AS level has to be taken again at the end of A2. Oh joy.

OP posts:
dottygamekeeper · 20/01/2016 22:30

Grannypucket - my DD is also off to the Bath Physics offer holders day on 27th: good to see other girls opting for physics!

Grannypucket · 21/01/2016 22:04

dotty does your DD know which she would like to firm and insure? My DD doesn't know whether it's best to either firm Bath with placement over Warwick that doesn't. Shes been to Bath normal open day but going to the offer open day to try and come to a decision to what's best, Oh dilemma dilemmas.
Yet high fliers publication out the other week puts Warwick as 3rd most targeted graduates from top 100 uni. Guess placement isnt extremely crucial for a good graduate job.
Saturday trip is nearly 5hrs long train journeyConfused

Grannypucket · 21/01/2016 22:05

Meant top100 companies not uni Confused