Second Year Accommodation - Joint & Several Contracts

[BlueStringPudding]

DD2 has found a house that she and her friends want to rent next year. There are 7 of them in total, and the house is 'perfect'. The problem is that it is a 'Joint and Several' contract, not just for the students but for the guarantors as well.

This means we're being asked to guarantee not only DD's rent but also her 6 other housemates - who she hasn't known very long. It seems that if one or more of DD's friends leaves the house and they don't find replacements, or indeed if someone just doesn't pay, that the rest of us will be liable for the rent, and the Landlord can, if they wish, just target one guarantor to pay the outstanding amount.

Apparently the other parents are happy with this, and the agent says this is normal for this city and that the terms are non-negotiable. DD1 in a nearby city is on an individual tenancy so we only had to be guarantor for her.

I'm not happy about this, but DD says that I'm being unreasonable and that they will lose the house and won't find another good one if we refuse to sign this contract.

The University Guild advice recommends guarantors only sign for their share, but the Agents I've looked at so far all seem to quote 'Joint and Several' so feeling a bit stuck.

Has anyone any experience with this? Do we just have to go for it and hope for the best, or can we hold out and trust that they will find another house with individual tenancies - it is still quite early, but there seems to be a lot of panic about the shortage of 'good' student houses..

cruikshank No need for that. I don't know whether you have DC in HE but this topic is normally very supportive and pleasant and not sweary like the rest of MN
I think we all know the students will get stung one way or another, but as I said before they are adults and as a parent it is impossible to control every decision they make, nor would I want to.

I agree MillyMolly £15 v lost deposit = no brainer. Chances are your DC will be away somewhere when the tenancy ends and have little control over how the other flat mates leave it.

I agree. I've been caught too often by tearful tenants who did not realised how long it would take to both move out and clean a property. I usually recommend that they use a firm of cleaners trusted by me, and the sensible ones agree. They pay the cleaner on the basis of the quote, I sign the deposit release when I get the keys back and everyone is happy. Deep cleans are hard work and really worth the money. Be careful however about firms who advertise on the internet. Very low quotes, but many are useless. The Hedgie mentioned up thread claimed he could get a full clean including carpet for about a third of my cleaners quote. I got him to ask the firm how many hours this was based on. If they had done the job as promised it was clear that they would have been paying their staff well below minimum wage. Not a problem to him, it was to me.

And for cruikshank. I had a tenant in a house share of recent graduates whose mum used to come down every month to clean the house. Unfortunately the girl's employer transferred her out of London. With none of the remaining sharers cleaning, the house quickly became a tip. I assume the mum was not a MNetter.

I honestly think most of our DC will not share flats with insolvent flaky students who drink to oblivion and are just about to get chucked off the course. I am pleased to say my DC were more discerning than that and I bet yours are too. We all know there are a few students who are disastrous but my DD only knew one student on her course who left after year 1 because she wanted to change courses. Most young people really do suss out decent flat mates who come from backgrounds like theirs and who have every intention of being honest and decent. It is impossible for parents to sort out every detail and can only advise. The landlord has a contract with the student, not the parent.

I cannot see why anyone would be worried or suspicious about £15 for a deep clean! It just meant 6 students and their parents did not have to worry about it and everyone just left their rooms tidy and the last one out cleared out the fridge!

The landlord has a contract with the student, not the parent.

If you've signed a deed of guarantor, then you've got a contract with a landlord.

I am actually quite amazed that a grown adult would enter into such an agreement without realising the implications of it.

^
I cannot see why anyone would be worried or suspicious about £15 for a deep clean!^

Because very likely the landlord will be charging the exiting tenants this so-called 'fee' and then charging the new tenants the same. So that's £200 for literally fuck all. And if the landlord had had to go through the deposit scheme to recoup money for cleaning, they very likely wouldn't have got it. They know that, so they stiff the tenants with the implied threat that deposit monies will be forfeited if the tenants don't go along with it.

Error......it depends what the original inventory says. If it says it was professionally cleaned then the property needs to be cleaned to a professional standard on exit. Good domestic clean and ditto. And pigsty... no need to clean at all.

Which is why it is so important to read the inventory carefully and note any discrepancies at the outset.

The costs MMM quotes sound very reasonable. I don't get cruikshank's issue.

If you've signed a deed of guarantor, then you've got a contract with a landlord
It iis legally binding but it is not a contract.

Neither do I. If a student moves in to a newly decorated flat with clean appliances and showers and everything in working order it is perfectly reasonable to pay a cleaning fee on exit so the oven and hob etc are as clean as when they moved in. I do not know any students who are charged for cleaning when they go into a property. Why do you think landlords charge new tenants a cleaning fee Cruikshank? Never heard of that.

I think cruikshank thinks all landlords are unscrupulous rogues. Lots of landlords and letting agents give a point of contact for the students. DD2 had a maintenance man in Y2 who lived in one of the flats - 4 large houses in a row with 3 flats in each. They had communal gardens, a barbecue, bike rack and super new bathrooms and kitchen. I think it is reasonable for students to look after property and deal with issues themselves unless the landlord/ agent is totally unreasonable. Many will not want contact from parents and we were totally satisfied the landlord and agents dealt with money appropriately. I let out a couple of houses so I do know what students should expect. Also if carpets and settees were ruined and the students trashed the flat, the deposit would barely cover this.

When students move to final year you will find that some properties are advertised for this type of student and maybe post-grad and young professionals too. The quality of property for this category can be better. I think that as long as the student is happy that the accommodation has been well maintained, that defects are put right promptly and has the safety checks done and fire regulations are adhered to, then they will be happy living in that property. The landlord in DDs property actually came round to meet the students and kept a reasonable eye on his properties, but not in an intrusive way. He just checked everyone was happy and that work had been completed.

Just catching up on all of the responses, and thank you - it is all very useful information. DD1's experience has been pretty good - she has a single contract, and we guaranteed just her. The Agents are good - replaced the microwave within 24 hours when it broke.

When she moved in we took loads of photos of the interior of the house, particularly showing any marks etc, and checked them against the inventory. She has got a bit of an issue with mould, but has a dehumidifier and trying to open the windows as much as possible to ventilate the room.

Hoping DD2 and her friends find somewhere nice in January. It sounds like there are quite a lot of private landlords that will advertise on the universities' accommodation pages, so fingers crossed..

I thought it would be useful to provide an update of what happened in the end.. They found a lovely 7 bed house in a great location at a good price between the campus and the Centre. It was a Joint and Several contract for the students, but the Guarantor Deeds limited to just the rent for our own child.

Unfortunately the night before they were due to sign the contracts and pay deposits, one of their group broke the news that they had decided not to stay after all, and were dropping out. Sadly this meant this house was no longer an option, and the search was on instead for a 6 bedroom house.

They went to the university housing fair, which was a bit of a scrum apparently but signed up to see 3 houses, one of which - the most expensive naturally - is the one they decided they wanted. They checked about the individual Guarantors, and the Landlord said that was fine.

Contracts were emailed out, only to discover that the Guarantor Form was again Joint and Several. Some tense emails went back and forth, and one of DD's friends negotiated with the LL over the wording of the contract to limit the liability to an individual amount per student.

Agreement was reached, deposits have been paid, and just waiting for the revised form to sign and return.

So somewhat stressful, but I think she is all sorted now.. Thank you all for the advice, it really helped me stay focused and determined not to sign a Joint and Several Guarantor Form..