So are our children resilient?

[MarianneSolong]

Interesting article here. It's about American universities, but I think the issues in the UK are similar.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201509/declining-student-resilience-serious-problem-colleges

I'm not sure my daughters issues are covered by this article other than she does have very high expectations on herself (and I can 100% say I am not a pushy parent). My daughters main issue is down to the mistrust of students around her - this stems from severe mental bullying (with the odd sexually physical bullying thrown in!!) she has had counselling (paid for by me) to help her but this is deep rooted and will be with her for life!

Not very, no. It's a worry.

Interesting article about resilience and grit. Personally I think it's part of life skills, for some people it take longer to acquire than others. Depends on upbringing and what life throws at them. For some people it's a life long persuit. But having it early on in childhood definately has its advantages when transitioning to adulthood although some may argue that those kids have lost their childhood through having to grow up too fast. I find these topics fascinating love to hear other peoples perpective.

I think the article is very interesting in that it considers what university staff should do regarding "hand holding". I can honestly say, as a Mum of 2 x DD, both studying at the moment, that their hands are well and truly not held, by me or by the university staff! They really do cope with life and everything that comes their way. They did go to boarding school though and that really prepares you for life away from home and how to get along with other people - a vital tool for university. I do see lots of chidren who do not seem to be able to sort anything out for themselves. I do give advice, but I do not vet who they live with, what property they rent, remind them of deadlines (I do not know them), nag them about the effort they put in, remind them to eat properly, buy them food or generally maintain an umbilical cord through skype or constant visits.

It always amazes me how Mums on this site have real difficulty in letting go of their children in order for them to become adults. Empty nest angst everywhere. Advice on skyping all the time. Worries about drinking too much in freshers week. Advice on how to cope with freshers week if you do not drink! How to make friends. The list is endless. Can these young people not make up their own minds and show resiliance about anything? Of course we care about our children, but we must back off and allow them to make decisions and sometimes make the wrong decision!

My son is resilient. He has been through the mill. He was bullied. He has dyslexia and was called lazy by primary teachers rather than being investigated (pretty uncommon nowadays I would hope). He turned and flattened the guy who bullied him. He gave up on school work but threw himself into music. Became pretty proficient at music for a primary schooler and his self esteem grew. He managed to pull out grade 4s in SATS and we got a private ed psyc report to diagnose dyslexia.

All of that lot sort of made him what he was when he started secondary school. It was never easy academically for him but he was clever enough to still pull out B/C's. He has always had to think on his feet and take control of his own destiny (if you like). Now he is at college he has found his niche and still, if he finds problems, often tells me what he is doing - he works things out for himself. He had made it obvious that any nagging from me is unnecessary.

I'm very proud of him although he is also not very emotional. He is quite a "hard" character and I think it has also come out of what went before.

His sister is very independent work wise but asks us for help or for agreement before she does things a lot more. I would say she is less resilient although better than some as she does art which comes with a high degree of criticism and she can take that and work on improvement without becoming upset.

Milly A lot of the worrying done on these sites is just venting, sharing and chatting. It doesn't mean that these dc's can't cope.

I work in a university - emotionally supporting students who feel they need help. I feel that the vast majority of students are very resilient. The ones who aren't tend to be the ones whose parents have been overbearing - never letting them go away alone, and then expecting them to cope at uni.

We haven't persuaded DS into the 'going away alone', barring an overnight stay for uni open day, and it does worry me. It's not always a case of 'not letting'.

Some of this resonates. In the UK though, I think a lot of this blaming faculty for poor grades, complaining etc, is as much a product of higher fees as of helicopter parenting. They were told it would cost more, and then universities were told they had to make students understand why it was worth it - the circle can't really be squared!

No of course - it's not always 'not letting' but from talking to the students it often is for the ones that struggle. The same parents often ask their adult child to call at 8pm every night - things like that that really makes homesickness worse.

milly Sometimes the difficulty in letting go is justified. Your DDs have had experience of being away from home by going to boarding school - most young adults don't have that 'advantage'. Some posters on the preparing for Uni thread have children with ASD/Dyslexia/anxiety disorders/been bullied - it is only natural that they will worry about how their DC will cope.
My DS chose a Uni a long way from home - he has ASD so when at home he rarely went out. He has never spent more than 4 nights away from home without us before and those were school trips. He had 1:1 all through school - some of those TA's did him no favours by 'mothering' him. I have tried hard to make him as independent as possible before he left home but we live in a rural area where he was relatively safe - he is now in a city. I bought him a railcard at the start of the summer to try and get him to go out and about but he doesn't see the point in going on a journey just for the sake of it so it didn't get used. Now he will need to arrange flights/ferries to get himself home, something he's never done before. It is hard to teach him how to stay safe in a city when he has lived in a rural environment for 18 years where everyone knows everyone and looks out for them. It is a very steep learning curve for him - so of course I am anxious and worried about how he will cope and whether he is safe.

And with reference to the article - my experience of state education is that it does not prepare students adequately to take responsibilty for their own learning - nor does it teach them to stand on their own 2 feet.
The comment about Uni students not being told what is needed to get a good grade or bad - many times have I seen sheets of paper in DS's bag which tells them exactly what they need to include to get X grade. Schools do this because they need to get good marks in league tables - letting children do it themselves and learn to deal with failure doesn't put the school at the top of the tables
Also, schools have increasing numbers of pastoral staff who deal with everyday problems which in my school days you would just have sorted out by yourself or with the help of a friend. His ex school even has a pastoral dog!

rosaline but those that do call home every night might actually be doing so out of respect and not wanting their parents to worry about them. Rather than, they being homesick. I know in certain cultures and countries this happens alot especially kids from south east asian countries as they place parents and family high up, not contacting them is seen as rude.and disrepectful. Offspring's from 1st generation whose parents who aren't British may also be more inclined to be going back home more frequently or phoning them up more than usual. This is through talking to dd's friends who are predominately international or foreign.

I expect our children would all be more resilient if they'd been packed off to boarding school as young children. Just as we parents would be used to a life without them.

I for one have adored every minute of having my DC. Teaching them how to take care of themselves and cope away from home without help is part of parenting but for my DC that started as they reached 14 or so and was a gradual process. We also live rurally so a bus trip unaccompanied to a city, travel on public transport, getting a part time job all hurdles to be ticked off.
I think it's a mistake to take the posts on MN as a sign of trouble youth. It's mostly just mothers saying stuff they dare not say in RL. The empty nest thread reflects the fact that although I miss them badly when they go to uni it is my problem not theirs.
He skypes home now and then because he enjoys a chat not because he is not resilient or because I am needy.

I think growing up is a process and kids can't be expected to suddenly become adults just because they've turned 18.

My ds is very mature in some ways and a total kid in others. He will get there in the end and although he may need a bit of hand holding through the new experience of starting uni, eventually he will learn and adapt and need less support. That all seems fine to me.

I had very little hand holding at 18 and frankly could have done with a bit more.

As for universities suddenly finding that more is being asked of them, in an academic sense - that is what happens when people are paying thousands per year for their education. They tend to feel they are buying a service and want full value!

I wonder how all the poor students who don't go to boarding school manage at uni...

No boarding school here but my children are pretty resilient, they make their own decisions without any significant worries about peer pressure, they can look after themselves in terms of cooking and housework, they motivate themselves in their studies and are happy to take on challenges they know they may not achieve but they try anyway.

This hasn't just happened though, sadly it has come because I am disabled so I haven't been able to do what I would have for them and they have watched me try and fail many times. It's been tough on them, very tough, but at least this grit is the silver lining.

well mine is certainly not phoning home at 8p.m every night. I wouldn't expect it and they wouldnt do it if I did. I worry that they won't ask for help when they might need it. But of course I worry about them and miss them

Many more people go to university now than when their parents were young. There are many parents who didn't go to university themselves and perhaps lived near their parents so went to them when they had a problem. Expectations are different.

There is also more recognition of mental health issues now and less stigma so more people seeking help when they need it.

my experience of state education is that it does not prepare students adequately to take responsibilty for their own learning - nor does it teach them to stand on their own 2 feet.

True, too much time spent chasing tables, success/retention rates and avoiding complaints from parents and Ofsted.

Change the system, do everyone a favour, and make our kids more resilient!

The fact that, on the family level, we miss our children when they leave for university and perhaps grapple bit with the concept of a new phase in our family life, doesn't mean those teenagers can't or don't cope at university. Mine has probably exchanged a few texts most days, and I've spoken to her three times in the fortnight she's been away - and that's fine, but obviously it's a jump from seeing someone every day and them being a day-to-day part of life.

I attribute the issues outlined in the link to fees first - ('how am I getting my money's worth?', to a slightly tick-box mentality on A Level marking ('that's great, you've done an AO2 in your essay when you mentioned 'society') and, in some cases, yes, to parents who don't get that university is different and you cannot have the same control over or impact on what goes on for your DC once they are there.

Personally I would not hold boarding school up as necessarily an advantage. My DD boarded for 3 years and because of it , she was very aware of how she felt when she was homesick and so purposefully chose UNIs that were only a couple of hours away. Therefore in someways she limited her options, because of how homesick she had felt as a boarder. She actually left after GCSES and did sixth form from home.

I did have a moment at drop-off where I envied boarding school parents, assuming they'd be used to this! But no matter how you cut it, it's different when they're students, I guess.

I was resilient and independent at a very young age. At too young an age, I was very hardened and it's definitely not something I'd want for my own child. Even at 6 or so I would have scorned a 10yr old, never mind a uni age one who couldn't cope with adult responsibilities. However that doesn't mean I've gone the other way, there is a happy medium of gradually increasing resilience up to 18. We do seem to have developed a culture of babying that continues right through.

We live very rurally so DD could never 'pop to the corner shop' or just 'call round' for a friend

So I built a series of steps for her to gain independence starting with short train journeys, getting longer - at 13 she started travelled 20 minutes to the city and then travelled 90 mins away by train for a class, at 14 she travelled to central London 2.5 hrs from home and later started staying overnight with family & at 15 she stayed over night by herself in London (halls of residence)

Which in her case was vital as she left home to go to college at 16

However I had collywobbles the whole time!! But she was held up as an example as 'how to deal with homesickness' at college to the older students (which I had to intervene with as she really wasn't coping that well in the evenings)

But she works during both of the last summers and had a fab reference from the boss as he was impressed with her independence

But creating these opportunities has been hard & required thought from DH & I especially when we don't always agree to a level of risk

At 13 both of mine went to school in South Africa for a term. They went with another child on the aircraft to Joburg and changed to fly to another airport. They spent a term at a much stricter school with new children, teachers, strange curriculum and managed to get home again safely. I did not pack them off at a young age and they loved school. If you end up being educated at home, then probably boarding was the wrong choice. I made the point about oar dung just to explain how we approached university. I was not intending to say state school children could not manage. That is clearly rubbish.

I do not suggest for one minute that state school children are not resilient. However, they do have parents who can hover, and some do, at every opportunity and some do not have to do much for themselves. Nearly every day child has an adult reminding them about taking in the PE kit, the correct books and checking up on their homework.

I totally recognise children with SEN need a different model of university education. I think though, that fees have made a difference to expectations at university. Also, although parents vent on MN, often it seems to stem from the belief their child cannot and will not cope with the new situation. I tend to have the expectation that they will cope. I think most people have this expectation but some clearly have children who are molly-coddled at every turn.