So are our children resilient?

[MarianneSolong]

Interesting article here. It's about American universities, but I think the issues in the UK are similar.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201509/declining-student-resilience-serious-problem-colleges

I was a very resilient teenager in many ways, comfortable to travel on my own abroad, good at managing money etc. However, I was also very very shy and I doubt I would have been comfortable moving to the other end of the country for uni at 17, not knowing anyone. This was just my personality, not a deficiency in how I was reared or because I would have been homesick.

We're so risk adverse nowadays. A lot of kids are strongly discouraged from taking risks. Parents, clubs, schools, everyone wants to wrap the kids up in cotton wool. Parents who let their kids take risks ( gasp! he walked there alone? She rode her bike there?! ) get frowned at (and reported to SS). So the kids have few chances to learn that they can rise to a challenge. That bad things happen but they can recover. That they can have close calls & learn from them & move on. All that is robbed of many western kids.

Totally agree yeOT. Everyone asked me how on earth I could let my children go to SA. They would be murdered or at the very least mugged! How could they possibly do a journey like that without Mum and Dad? How would they manage in a school where they did not know anyone with a completely different curriculum? How would they manage when they got back and they had missed all that school work? Their grades would suffer, surely!?

Obviously not all children will have the confidence, or the chance, to do this type of exchange, but if someone at 18 cannot go away from home and flourish, as an independent young adult, it is very sad. Years ago most of us could not wait to escape!

Just as a further anecdote: at 17 my mother started her training to be a nurse in London during WW2. She started early because she was pretty bright, my grandfather wanted her out of the family home, and they needed nurses. The hospital was bombed. How many of us would want our children in that sort of danger? She didn't even come from London.

This thread is interesting to me for my DS1 and DD1.

DS1 suffers with social anxiety and really struggles with new relationships and sometimes situations despite the fact that we have encouraged increasing independence over the years. Our main concern for him at uni is dealing with his money as he struggles with what I would consider simple concepts and logic. However, I have reminded him that he has used the train/bus from a younger age than most of his friends (some of whom have still never used public transport at the age of 18 due to us living rurally), he has spent a weekend on his own in Glasgow, been to gigs on his own, etc. This summer he and 4 friends booked a weeks camping but came home after 5 days because one of the group just couldn't cope with being so far from his mum. He's sent a couple of message where I can tell he is worrying but I assured him he is doing well and I think he will definitely flourish once he makes a few new friends and feels more comfortable.

This thread is about uni students but resilience/grit and changing mind-set are actually part of Nicky Morgan's grand plan for secondary schools.

I know this because I have a meeting tomorrow with DD1's Student Support tutor about this very thing. DD has obviously been identified as someone who could benefit from some extra support because although very capable she doesn't have a great deal of belief in herself. If she can't do something right then she will stop or continuously put herself down.

I'm interested to see how they think they can help her as DD1 thinks she will be with a bunch of the 'weird' kids who have problems. In the longer term I worry how I can help her be more independent as she is only 13 and I am less willing to give her freedom her brother had at ages 14/15 just because of logistics. Although I did allow her walk the two miles into the village to meet friends on a couple of occasions this summer - something that her friends parents would never do and I know they will be appalled that I let her.

milly my dd just started y7 in a day school where she didn't know anybody. There is no way any parent who knows her could remotely think she has any social difficulties or shyness, or is the type to be concerned about that type of thing. 'I going there with x now mummy you go bye bye' was a very early phrase. And yet I had a few parents getting all panicky on my behalf over the fact she'd have to catch a bus and meet new people I didn't know all on her own at only 11. Like she was a shy 4yr old heading off to a nightclub alone.

My DC did competitive team sports. They were used to winning and losing, and taught to do both graciously. They were used to getting support from sources other than the home - either through coaching staff or from team-members.
They also did Scouts/Brownies which encourage an outdoorsy, fend-for-yourself resilience.
And they had part-time, crappy jobs where you have to shape up or ship out.
They are both very resilient.

I work in a university and TBH I don't recognise this picture of hopeless youth that is so regularly drawn.

Each generation looks at the younger one and spots things that that generation cannot do (whilst cheerfully failing to notice all the new and exciting things they can).

I think young people are more open about discussing their feelings and less likely to suffer in silence. I don't see this as a bad thing.

I also think they are under more pressure. Having a degree meant something when I went to university. It opened doors, even for those who spent most of their time in union bar .

These days young people are aware that the world and his dog has a degree. They also know how much it costs. These concerns use up a lot of mental reserve.

I think the fact that most students are not hopeless is no doubt true. However, do you know who sorted out their accommodation, how many food parels were sent, how often parents skype, or indeed if the student never left home at all?

I do think a lot of us see children who do not do anything without a parent hovering. Just look at university open days to see how many parents pile into talks. I totally agree that the pressures of the student loan and the number of degrees adds to pressure. Neither do I think anyone should suffer in silence, but preparation for living away from home and ability to make friends in unfamiliar circumstances leads to a better university experience. We all want our children to be happy and succeed, so giving them the tools to do it is better than doing everything for them and making all the decisions.

Many older people would say the large numbers going to university now are lucky to get the chance when so many people in the past never got near a university. Even at my grammar school only about 50% went to university.

Perhaps the universities educating the dogs should close (please take this a joke!!!)

milly I don't know who has a parent doing what, but actually I don't think it matters that much.

No one gets special brownie points for sorting out their first year accommodation (and lots of parents have to pay for it anyway, so have to be involved) or not keeping in touch with home.

The vast majority of them, no matter what they've experienced to date, do muddle through. It's a gradual thing, which is fine IMO.

'Preparation for living away from home and ability to make friends in unfamiliar circumstances' is kind of what I got out of University, rather than preparation for it.

It was a gentle introduction to adulthood. Mind you, it did seem a lot simpler when I applied: fill in the odd form, wait for results, room allocated in pot luck fashion -- pretty much just had to remember to turn up!

Hmm interesting. I do actually think that the amount of helicoptering that goes on is quite crazy.

My DD1 had a series of interviews all over the country for university last year, (art course). On each occasion she was very much in the minority of kids who had come without their parents. She even had one concerned mother questioning her as to whether she actually had any parents and why weren't they with her. DD pointed out she was 19, (as are most people who do art degrees). Interestingly DD was offered places at all her interviews, (many of which had a 20 to 30% offer rate) and thinks that the tutors seemed to be fully aware who had come with their parents and who was independent.

My DS1 got a week or so's work over the summer at his university, manning the phones for accomodation issues. He was pretty shocked that 75% of the callers were parents sorting stuff out on behalf of their DCs. I don't think he'd even been aware that this was something not all kids do for themselves.

It just don't think it does kids any favours to be treating them like little kids.

My DD is doing an art degree and started age 18. Some can go at 18 if they have the right portfoio and credentials. My DDs course had a much lower offer rate. 800/40 places. We dropped her off at the various universities for interviews. It was not so easy to go on the train from where we live, never mind the many hours and changes involved in getting to the destinations, plus lugging a portfolio about. It is interesting though that on open days the university lecturers openly told her they preferred older students because they were more mature and could cope better away from home. Thankfully DD persuaded them otherwise.

I think your DS working in the accommodation office really saw the problems. I think students would like to see university as a gentle introduction to adulthood, but as parents worry about it so much more, it now seems hard for the students to be themselves and discover what they can do if left alone to get on with it.

Milly Dropping them off with a heavy portfolio is one thing, lurking outside the interview room is another. Well done to your DD though, (trying to work out where she has gone with those odds).

I think it's incredibly hard to know what kind of support students are getting from home. Some parents are all over the place and super visible but not actually that supportive. Some parents are invisible to the naked eye of other students but actually have the confidence of their DC and talk over things constantly.

I agree it doesn't help the child when there is so much involvement of parents. I sent my DD to open days and interviews on her own. She realised that a five hour train journey wasn't what she wanted and gave her a sense of how far away she wanted to go.

I had never been to the uni she eventually went to until she was there. She really had made independence by the time she got there, I certainly don't sort out her accomadation or anything else for that matter.

We took her for the first day. Since she has taken herself, back and forth whenever she needs.

I think however she has been fairly unusual for her peer group which I think is a shame.

I own up to visiting the unis with my daughter BUT never went to a talk - (it's her course and her decision) she made the decision which uni totally on her own and I didn't go back to visit after she decided and went to offer days - she is in a London uni and we dropped her off on first day and if she wants to come home then she will get the train back! BUT I am one of the mums having the wobbles on the other page BUT this isn't because I don't think she is resilient or not it's because we have a FAB relationship and I actually miss her company! She isn't an only child so I don't have empty nest syndrome either. I do worry because she has some social issues But I never verbalise them to her! YES we do talk a lot and I always text her good morning and goodnight but that isn't at set times and if she doesn't call me then great because she is either studying and/or enjoying herself!

I don't know why contact is such a bad thing.

I speak to my Mum most days and text several times per day. I'm 47 .

I don't understand the contact issue with students at all. I get texts from Waitrose with photos of ingredients and consultation on recipes. Texts from the laundrette with questions about mixing colours. Texts from the kitchen with photos of sausages wondering whether they're cooked. I find it endearing ;)

There's always something minor to stay in touch about and it keeps conversation going for the times something important crops up.

Oh I have a lot of contact. Most days really. But then I too text/ speak with my mum most days also. My DD often pops back for an overnight stay ( she is lucky and has a car and it's not far).

I think contact is a great thing - I often text links of things I've read that I think are interesting, or random bits of news.

I do think there is a bit of confirmation bias going on when it comes to positively praising boarding schools as a means of building resilience. As parents we are hardwired to be optimistic in our assessment of the choices we make for our children. Only the "depressive realist" is doomed always to see things as they really are.

For my part, I wouldn't have missed the last few years for anything - and I also can't imagine who could do a better job at bringing up my children than me (speaking as someone with a full time job, long commute etc, and fwiw, as a depressive realist!)

Love the idea of photos of sausages boho

Going to uni has helped to bring my DD closer in that we have more in common. She is studying a similar field hence we have quite a bit to discuss. (She's even taken a couple of my textbooks)!

I suppose technology has made it very easy for parents and children to exchange a constant flow of trivia - even when the children are technically adult and miles away.

I'd get quite irritated if I received regular texts and emails asking for advice about minor domestic tasks. (I hope she'll have new friends to ask. Or will look things up. Or work stuff out for herself. I've tried to teach her the basics re cooking etc over the last few years.)

I do think I want to get on more with my own life when my daughter goes away, though I hope we will exchange emails and texts every few days and speak on the phone/Skype at weekends

My DD and I have lots in common, so the stuff we share is usually more about things to see, good writing, or just stuff that makes us laugh. I'm not anticipating a string of messages asking me how to do householdy type things. Even before she's left, any advice I proffer on that front tends to scoffed at, so I'm trying to leave her to make her own mistakes. As a non driver and a very boring cook with a not amazing memory, my DDs have been forced to develop a fair amount of "practical" resilience.

I would be more concerned about emotional resilience however. There is definitely an issue around children, especially girls, who have never failed academically, and have always won prizes etc. coping with failure, especially when "being top" has been internalised as a key component of their sense of self.