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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

New Mum-of-Medicine 2016 Applicant Thread

122 replies

Needmoresleep · 08/09/2015 14:26

It looks as if it will be a long year. I would welcome company, and as importantly, advice from those who have been through it before.

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 11/10/2015 20:08

I like the idea of one of the many mini Molios being perky as a pekingese. I had assumed they all were.

And agree that I don't want to see my daughter demoralised and exhausted. It's good to emphasise the basic problem, as our dentist did to her. Too much demand, finite resources and huge political sensitivity will almost certainly lead to a difficult early career. A couple of her classmates have already decided not to pursue medicine.

DD is coming from a position where she does not want to work in an office and wants to do something caring, scientific and with good human contact. Medicine really appeals, and she is prepared to accept that it may not be easy. DS, who is studying economics, is hearing tales of Goldman Sachs banking internships and has decided its a route he does not want to go down. The money may be better than medicine, but the hours are a lot worse, and without the same level of job satisfaction. Both need to get good degrees (actually DD needs to get a place!), study hard, accept that they have public sector instincts, and then see what is available.

The PS seems complete, though she will send the final version to the school for them to approve. Its Nottingham rather than Cardiff, which I think is right. (Mainly because she knows that part of the country better than she knows Wales - and take a bow a very helpful MNetter who helped us whittle down the list. ) So she just needs to press the button and then try to link UKCAT with UCAS. With DD and DHs illnesses, its been a difficult couple of months, but I think we are getting there. Since she is not doing BMAT we can now forget about it all until presumably around Christmas. The only remaining decision is whether to try the Irish system in parallel or leave it till next year. (Entrance is based very largely on A level grades, which she should get, but I think she would prefer to stay in the UK if she has a choice.)

So the Need household is not as perky as the Molio one, but give us a month or two............

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Peaceandl0ve · 11/10/2015 23:06

Well that's it, ucas form done, paid for and sent to Head of Sixth to do his bit. Admittedly, my dd is a vet applicant so the same but different. Am I the only jittery parent? I only hope she double checked her PS and all the rest. Eeeeeeek!

cleanmachine · 12/10/2015 07:16

I mentor done young people and I'm amazed by the number of these young people going to Bulgaria /Czech Republic /China /Sudan to study medicine. These are good candidates who could not get into UK universities. Many many of them did not get into UK unis for good reason (low grade a levels, low ukcat score, lack of work experience, lack of qualities required to be a doctor). Despite advice from many agencies and schools these young people have gone abroad, many of them pressies by parents.

On the reverse I've found that many of the young Dr's I know who studied here seem to looking for jobs in Australia and abroad as they are struggling to work in the NHS and there is increased competition from those returning from studying abroad.

I'm interested to know what other careers potential medics could be guided towards?

Needmoresleep · 12/10/2015 08:12

Yes, as I suggested earlier, part of the reason the Government may feel it can press down on junior doctors t&c is the availability of overseas trained but British medics. Yes it may lose some British trained medics to Australia, but there will be enough trained elsewhere to fill the gaps.

I think it is interesting that medical schools/hospitals like the Royal London and Nottingham are building links with places like Malta and Malaysia, perhaps aware that they will need to recruit from overseas, and so want to ensure quality by offering clinical experience in their hospitals. Also interesting is the warning on most (all?) medical school websites, that FYI posts cannot be guaranteed, presumably an acknowledgement that British trained graduates may well have to compete with overseas trained graduates for a limited number of places.

However students need to be cautious, and consider quality and track record, especially with the real possibility of a no vote in an EU referendum. Some overseas medical schools, in places like Malta, Ireland and Hungary are well established, but others appear to have relatively low entry requirements.

Parental pressure appears pretty common, at least where we are. Most shocking for DD was a London medical open day where she was the only one not accompanied by parents (or in some cases larger family groups), only parents asked questions, and there was no mention of anything other than academics. It was useful in that DD realised that though she wants to be a doctor, she needs balance and that for her the best way of coping both with medical school and beyond will be to have friends doing other things, and to keep up her extra curricular. Even if it means that her grades are "good enough" not starry.

I find it ironic that there is so much emphasis on diversity and access and jumping through lots of hoops, when in practice the next generation of doctors actually practicing probably wont be particuarly diverse, with an over-representation of those strongly motivated (or whose parents are strongly motivated) and who have the resources to fund study overseas. Still it provides a bit of a get out of jail free card for the Government and NHS, as there are almost certainly not enough training places in the UK. .

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cleanmachine · 12/10/2015 08:22

It's the lower entry and teaching standards at some of the institutions abroad which is worrying. It also seems to be loophole whereby those not accepted to study here by our unis are able to study abroad but are eligible to apply for f1 jobs here. Wouldn't it make sense for some unis here to lower their entry requirements and allow more people to study here, thereby controlling the quality and maintaining consistency of teaching/approaches.

Just my ramblings on this complex issue.

Needmoresleep · 12/10/2015 09:23

Ahhh. Simple answer. Training medics costs money. Lots of money. Medics who have studied overseas have paid their own way. EU legislation will presumably allow medics trained in other EU countries to compete for F1 jobs.

However the key word is compete. If someone is not well trained or does not have the right aptitude, then they will struggle to get jobs. Its quite a gamble, even without factoring in the possibility that Britain might leave the EU. If DD ends up going down that road, I think we would be very careful to limit choices to those places which offer clinical training in the UK, or alternatively Ireland, which has acceped British students since time immemorial. The other option is Buckingham which seems to have no problem filling its places even with annual fees of £35,525.

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MedusaIsHavingaBadHairday · 13/10/2015 23:15

Just sticking my head in to say good luck to 2016 applicants.

I was here in 2009... asking questions and worrying. DD1 started (at Peninsula..now Exeter Med school) in 2010 and is now an F1. She LOVED Peninsula (chose it for PBL plus the surfing Grin) and got her first choice for F1....now a doctor in Plymouth.

It hasn't always been easy... getting in to med school is just the start... being ranked from the day they begin, constant pressure and a fair few of her cohort were kicked out. DD1 nearly didn't make it..developed anorexia in her first year..but recovered... and watching her and her cohort say the hippocratic oath at their graduation was one of the best..and most moving moments of my life!

But by GOD it is tough. And if Jeremy (C)unt gets his way it will be even worse. DD1 just worked 14 days straight, often she and the F2 ar the only doctors on their very busy oncology wards... half dead with exhaustion, making decisions, going home to crash out for a few hours and back again. No time or energy left for a social life, and the pay barely pays the rent...

BUT.. she wanted this from the age of 4, and she is loving it. It HAS to be a vocation..a calling, otherwise it is hell.

On a side note... the vast majority of meds she was with did come from wealthier backgrounds, children of doctors etc.. being a kid from the local comp she was a rarity in having to work bank shifts as an HCA to make ends meet... but she did it (and it has made her more popular as the nurses know she is not averse to getting her hands dirty!)

Good luck to all the students applying... it's worth it :)

Northernlurker · 14/10/2015 20:24

Thanks Medusa Smile

Everybody got the UCAS forms in? Dd managed to get hers off on Monday. Felt like a huge relief not to have it hanging over us anymore.

SuePine · 15/10/2015 08:08

Joining the thread rather hesitantly as it doesn't seem quite as supportive as usual! DD pressed the button on the UCAS form yesterday.

batters · 15/10/2015 10:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LessStress · 15/10/2015 15:31

Yes, UCAS button was pressed yesterday! DD seems very relieved, now just the long wait.

SuePine (good medical name there), Batters and co. maybe a new thread is a good idea. I'm just looking for a place to come for a bit of support and to compare notes with parents of current or recent applicants (i.e. 1st or 2nd year medics). Maybe we can leave this thread for all those who want to discuss the pros/ cons of Medicine?
DD was torn between teaching and medicine for a long time but everyone warned her of the issues in teaching, so it's a bit disheartening to hear the same of medicine. Anyway, it's her decision so I respect that and just want to support her. Personally I'm very proud that she wants to follow a fairly altrusitic career rather than chase money in the city.
We live far from London, which is one issue with cost of a London medical school but that's something to worry about down the line if she gets an offer. The London schools she likes are KCL and UCL but so please don't anyone tell me how good/ bad/ indiffernt they are as they're DD's choice and it's too late now anyway Wink

Anyone else chosen these schools?

Needmoresleep · 15/10/2015 15:41

LessStress, you may be taking a bit of a risk...

I unwittingly sparked the early debate by asking why KCL got such low student satisfaction ratings. However I also got some good explanations of why problems had arisen in the past (connected with the merger of three medical schools) and reassurances that they were being addressed.

So DD will apply. Not UCL though, as she does not want to take BMAT.

And Medusa, I have been following medical school posts for a while and am so pleased to hear she has got to the end. You must be so proud.

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sluj · 15/10/2015 17:56

Yes. Let's start again. DS has sent his off and the game is on ??

Northernlurker · 15/10/2015 18:43

Yes new thread please :)

batters · 16/10/2015 13:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

peteneras · 16/10/2015 18:06

I see OP, your thread has been stolen right under your nose! I only hope their DC who are aspiring to be doctors have more integrity - a vital quality in a doctor . . .

tropicalfish · 19/10/2015 10:39

Peteneras,
You are very knowledgeable about medical schools but your opinions have come across as a bit insulting and dare I say elitist. If you read through what you wrote maybe you can see that.
Needmoresleep had some very interesting opinions and the dialogue this thread created was ideal for sharing angst about the application process.

peteneras · 20/10/2015 08:20

Have you waited all of this time just to tell me that fish when this thread is all but hijacked and suffocated?

Anyway, I don’t understand how an opinion can be insulting and elitist; an opinion is an opinion, i.e. a personal judgment formed over a period of time through observation, research and personal experience and nobody has to agree with me or my opinion whatsoever.

This is massively different from for example, people who don’t have an opinion but tell you what to post or not to post, e.g. no league tables etc. I find it strange that they claim they are here to ’support each other’ in this stressful period but in reality they are here to seek support only for themselves. The OP and her views, opinions etc. are very much secondary if at all. Personally, I have no axe to grind here.

peteneras · 12/11/2015 03:20

”On 9 October, she was flown from Glasgow to London in a military aircraft to receive treatment in the isolation unit at the Royal Free Hospital.”

Just another example of the importance of [[www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34791692
teaching hospitals of medical schools]] where you are trained. To travel over 400 miles from one hospital to another for emergency life or death treatment says it all for me.

And of course, Dr. Michael Jacobs himself trained in London too. Where else do you think?

Three Cheers for London schools:

‘Hip, Hip . . . Hooray!!!’ (X3) Wine

Three Cheers for Pauline Cafferkey:

‘Hip, Hip . . . Hooray!!!’ (X3) Wine Flowers

Needmoresleep · 24/11/2015 11:59

Tropicalfish, I had missed your post. Thank you. I have been around MN for a long time and had not expected my posts to cause such a reaction. I can assure everyone that I have got the message and promise I will stay well away from the new thread.

I want to say though that I am very grateful for all the help I received on this thread and via PM. Two of DDs choices flowed directly from advice received. Alreadytaken is a star, and though I don't share views on the superiority of Eton or perhaps other things, so is Peteneras, as are Molio, Oyster, Dunlurking and more. I've been following Medusa's DD's story for a while so it was great to have an update. In the half term following her illness, DD was struggling, but has recovered much of her bounce in the last month or so. She skipped BMAT and her UKCAT is not great, but hopefully she will get through initial filters on at least a couple of her choices, after which she should have as much chance as anyone. Importantly she has applied to medical schools that should suit her and where she should thrive, rather than simply selecting the ones which might be "easiest" to get into. If it does not work there is always next year and BMAT.

Its tough. Friends applying for other subjects are sitting on several offers or interviews. DD is lucky she has one interview, scheduled for February, so something to carry her through what could be a winter of silence or rejections.

In the meantime I need to stop reading Student Room. How come posters all seem to have UKCATs of 800......

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tropicalfish · 24/11/2015 13:07

hi Needmoresleep,
I didnt start the new thread but you are welcome on it. I am sure it is all inclusive and your presence is missed especially by me as a parent going through this painstaking ordeal. Wish I had persuaded(put my foot down) dd harder not to apply now.
DD still hasnt had any medicine invitations for interviews or rejections. At her school people have heard from Bristol and Nottingham.
All the best to everyones dc.
TF

Needmoresleep · 24/11/2015 13:39

Its awful isn't it. Where is your DD applying?

DD's interview is with Birmingham. (Thank you, thank you, thank you.) She seems to be in a holding pile at Bristol, who are now the only non BMAT/UKCAT University, so seemingly inundated with applications. DD knows of a few who have had rejections, so the email confirming that her application is still being assessed is a small step forward, though given the number of applications the odds of getting through have to be slim. Nottingham are quite explicit in the way they score, and so, I assume, become a self fulfilling prophesy. She would have just got over the bar last year, but the concern is that the relative weighting given to UKCAT means that there will be more candidates with good scores this. Lets hope the really brainy ones either interview badly or have multiple other offers, so the bar gets lowered.

And all this on top of the pressure of school work. One thing. If they get through they should be prepared for the hard work which will come next year. lets not think about being Junior Doctors.....

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