Need some honest advice for DS applying for physics degree

[Judie0000]

DS wants to read Physics at a Russell group uni, a few choices, however he wants to apply to UCL, Warwick and Durham who's entry requirements range from 2AA to AAA. However, this is the big but! He hasn't done further maths and he got a B in physics, abeit a very high one waiting for remarks. He has A's in 3 AS ( maths, econ, bio) 1B in physics. He will be carrying on with those subjects so doing 4 A levels plus EPQ in physics Honest opinions please, Does he have a realistic shot at those uni, i've mentioned with B in physics and no FM, since they are highly competitive and selective uni? Or look at other uni with lower entry instead.

Honestly I don't think so not with both the b and no further maths. DD has just got in to Durham and needed Maths a* Physics a and further maths a.

Why doesn't he drop economics or biology and then do AS further maths with his A2 exams? And perhaps include somewhere like Leeds in his choices?

He also needs to ensure that his teacher will predict him at least an A.

Why has he not done FM - because he chose not to or because the school doesn't offer it.

The AS results aren't quite as important as the A2 predictions. You need to lean on his teachers as much as you can.

Most RG universities outside the ones you have named are undersubscribed for physics, despite having courses with good reputations, as physics isn't that popular a subject. If he is predicted 3As at A2 he would get offers from such universities, despite having a B at AS physics and not having further maths - there aren't enough candidates offering further maths to insist on it, outside the top half dozen places. So he wouldn't harm himself by choosing one or two of the top universities provided he also lists as his other choices more realistic options - Nottingham, KCL, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Southampton etc.

Thanks powdermum and hellsbells, I suspected he has a weak application gut feeling. He can't do FM now at A2 as it clashes with his other subjects, he had the chance to do it at AS year but didnt, silly boy! He goes to a inde school where they do maths GCSE and AS a year early, school insist on 4 A levels, only those with below average AS grades can drop a subject. The teacher will predict him the A for physics though. I'm thinking he should apply to uni with AAA requirements not waste his choices on the the 3 I've mentioned. But lack of planning on his part, he's typical boy didn't know what he wanted to study at uni unit now.

Hey, don't write him off. He gets five shots at UCAS so do something like 2 aspirational and 3 realistic.

If the timetable doesn't work out, he could show keenness by self-studying a bit of FM.

he's typical boy didn't know what he wanted to study at uni unil now.

Get that in the reference or the PS! And also the attempt to right the problem (self-study, as above).

The fact that he was at a school where he easily could have done FM but didn't will count against him, yes. But as pp said physics is not too oversubscribed ( presumably changes in grant rules will make next year a bit of an antibulge as well (?) ) and he has 5 UCAS choices. Maybe he could pick his favourite 2 of the "aspirational" picks along with 2 more achievable options and one safe bet.

What I don't know is how well he'd cope with the demands of a top flight physics degree without FM - I'm sure there's an expert out there somewhere.

Ds friend got AAAA and A epq with a excellent PS still wasnt accepted automatically on results day at Manchester, they kept him hanging on all day because he hadnt reached his offer. But that may be the Brian Cox factor and very over subsribed. Ds also has friend at Durham with only 3 A2s and not much of a PS.

Senua- ha ha yeah im not writing him off its just at times he's just too laid back, so frustrating honestly and now all of sudden he realises he's in deep water!! Maybe like you say just apply for 2 aspirational and 3 realistic. Nail his PS and hope for a miracle from aspirational. To be honest I can't see him able to do AS FM, 4Alevels and EPQ.
Something I'm wondering, if he can cope with demands of physics without FM

Relatively few students currently get grants on top of their maintenance loans (household income has to be quite low) and those who do will be able to borrow larger amounts, so their total money for maintenance will remain the same. Also universities are being encouraged to divert more money in bursaries etc to such students.

It's not clear whether the abolition of grants will actually affect student numbers. It may, since students from poorer families may feel worried by the size of the loans they are taking. Or it may not, in that the loan amount actually doesn't many much difference: they will pay the same percentage of their income back, regardless of their loan size. The government did not study the effects of grant abolition before introducing the change.

Even at the places named there will be a fair few students doing physics who don't have FM.

Regarding the mention of Birmingham as a possible "lower grade" offer: Birmingham is very highly rated for Physics with AAA the usual requirement. My daughter graduated recently; she had met the AAA requirement on entry, but found that many of her friends on her course had attained higher grades than that, and she felt poorly qualified by comparison.

At the time she was looking at courses Leicester was a solid university for Physics which I believe accepted lower grades at the time. It could be worth checking out their current requirements.

BTW, daughter didn't have further maths but managed to come out with a 1st. She felt at a slight disadvantage in the first year, but caught up over time. Her A levels were Physics, Maths and French.

Judie if he wants to definitely do physics & isn't fussed about it being at a RG university, a good back up might be University of Hertfordshire. I've seen it ranked 4th in the UK for physics on one league table at least. Entry requirements are 320 tariff points which is an A & two Bs I think.

Can he drop the EPQ as he doesn't really need this for physics. 4 A levels is a lot of work. DD2 is going to self study AS further maths along side her A2s this year but she didn't get the chance to take it last year. She is not doing an EPQ - DD1 didn't this year and it had not had any impact her getting her 5 offers for a STEM subject. Friends DD is going to one of the unis you mention to do physics this year - he has got further maths but no EPQ.

Since 2012 a number of university courses have expanded and effectively lowered their entrance grades by being more generous to those who missed offers, taking students in adjustment. I heard that Birmingham and Edinburgh in practice take AAA? Although I agree that

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?s=Physics+%26+Astronomy

seems to suggest otherwise. (But it is hard to interpret the average incoming points in terms of grades, as many selective school physics students do four A2 and five AS so have very high points scores.)

Manchester is very over-subscribed because of the Brian Cox factor, yes.

DS had firmed Durham (AAA) and his insurance was Sheffield (ABB) four years ago. He got A* in Physics, A and B in Maths and Biology. After a week, Durham rejected him, and he went to Sheffield. Found the course tough, although he came out with a 2.1 - but said that he really worked at uni whereas many others had fun! He felt that FM would have been a huge advantage, although he coped without.

What I'm really saying is it's not just the 'getting in', but the being able to cope with the course.

BTW if he got very good marks in maths it might well be worth listing his UMS on his application. AS/A2 maths scores are (to some extent) a better predictor of how well he will do than AS/A2 physics scores.

If he does have AAA predictions for maths, physics and one other, he could have a reasonable chance of offers from at least some AAA courses, despite the B at AS.

I think he will be fine but it would be better to drop either the fourth A level or the EPQ.

Universities have to have clear and transparent entry requirements. If a university wants applicants to have FM then they should and will say so.

For example,If you look on whichuni website for Physics at The University of Warwick it says only 53% of applicants have Further Maths - so not having FM doesn't seem to be too much of a problem. Also, it seems clear from the University of Warwick physics entry requirements that FM isn't a requirement.

OP, you should get your son to look at the actual course details for each course. If he has any doubts about whether FM is required I'd suggest emailing the Universities departmental admission staff directly. Straight from the horse's mouth and all that.

Would he consider something other than a straight Physics degree? If he goes to the UCAS course search he can find all Physics-related degrees. For example Warwick do Physics and Business Studies. They want AAA, with Maths and Physics in the mix, but don't specify which subject has to be the A (as far as I can see). There are loads of Maths and/with Physics degrees.

I've just checked out the grade requirements for Leicester and they are AAB.
If your son is interested in anything space / astrophysics-based, he could do worse than check out the course. Leicester has a solid reputation for space science.

Regarding physics at Durham: I'd proceed with caution. I know a very bright boy who failed to thrive there; according to him the lecturers were very distant and he failed to engage - failing over time and coming out with an ordinary degree; quite shocking, really. Intellectually he was capable of far greater things, but he had experienced a distinct lack of support over time.

My advice would be to look at the student satisfaction ratings, as well as the teaching ratings. I know there is the argument that students ought to be able to manage their own learning at this level, but some university departments are more effective at communicating the content of their courses than others.

"If a university wants applicants to have FM then they should and will say so."

This would be true of certain other A level subjects, but doesn't really apply for FM as not all schools offer it. So all they ever say is preferred (not essential).

Depending on the course some top universities do insist on FM eg Imperial or UCL and others give lower offers for student if they have FM. Other Unis such as Durham insist on FM if your school offers it.

Bristol Uni 'helpfully' used to suggest that if your school didn't offer FM you could do it yourself at night school. (I'm not sure if they still say this though)

It's a bit unfair on students who go to school that don't offer it.

Bristol will give a lower offer if you have FM