Need some honest advice for DS applying for physics degree

[Judie0000]

DS wants to read Physics at a Russell group uni, a few choices, however he wants to apply to UCL, Warwick and Durham who's entry requirements range from 2AA to AAA. However, this is the big but! He hasn't done further maths and he got a B in physics, abeit a very high one waiting for remarks. He has A's in 3 AS ( maths, econ, bio) 1B in physics. He will be carrying on with those subjects so doing 4 A levels plus EPQ in physics Honest opinions please, Does he have a realistic shot at those uni, i've mentioned with B in physics and no FM, since they are highly competitive and selective uni? Or look at other uni with lower entry instead.

Thank you everyone for your honest feedback and advice. DS has to some extent, shot himself in the foot for not doing FM all his own doing, not much sympathy from me im afraid when he could have done it and I told him so.

It was the physics teacher who suggest he do a EPQ he started it before the summer holidays so is stuck into it, he's unlikely to give it up. We wondering now whether he should give up biology, the school won't be happy, (is all boys very select school) and self study FM to AS better than nothing.

disquistions Because he goes to a good school rank top 30 independent for gcse/alevel results I doubt uni are going to be lenient with him either. DS is really wanting to go to the top tier Russell group uni, he did have his heart set on Durham but durham now wants 2A* and he was thinking maybe have Bristol as insurance, but by the looks of it he can try but its not looking good in getting offers unless he does FM. His maths modules are good but not exemplar middle 84% being lowest and 92% highest in the 3 module not sure if he should declare them.
senua thanks for that, I'm thinking physics & business at Warwick would be a better bet, since he's done economics.
charlton Leicester looks like somewhere he may have to be putting as his insurance if he doesn't do FM.
I don't know wether its because DS goes to a inde school and they've drilled it into his head only Russell group will do he's rather snobby about non Russell group even though I know there's uni's like bath that are also excellent but he says he don't want to take the risk! . My moaning is now, if he doesn't get his act together do FM he will have to think about ex poly! Never mind Russell group. I'm being cruel its only way to get this laid back boy to get his serious thinking cap on

The question is always "what's next?"
What happens after his degree. What's important to him - the subject or the institution? If you go to the Guardian University league table then Leicester is ranked No 5 for Physics. But if he just wants a good degree from a good university to impress the city / magic circle, then perhaps he wants the UCL/Durham/Warwick name.
He's made his degree search more difficult than it could be by shortsightedness. Don't let him make finding a career more difficult than it need be by another bout of shortsightedness.
So, why is he doing this degree. What's next?

I'm not an expert on which university doesn't include FM in their mix but I seem to remember one uni (possibly St Andrews) where it allowed you to skip year 1. Could you DS look there and do an extra year.

Personally my DD thrived in her final year at school with only 3 A levels all relevant to her degree choice and even her best friend who is off to Cambridge only did 3. This is a good state school though and I know independents push for 4. If your DS drops biology could he take some FM units through school. Have you (yourDS) talked this through with the school.

The problem with my boy is that he doesn't really know what profession he wants to be in. He only knows that he needs to achieve good grades, thats more to do with school, hes spent more time focused on grades and not the bigger picture he does all this, but whats it all for? seems to have by passed him. He is one of those kids that can get good grades and not enjoy the subject at all. He says he only likes physics its the only subject that he is interested in at lessons and can read about, despite it being his worst subject grade wise . But hes not sure if he would like a career related to physics so yeah as you can see its not helpful. Yet he says he wants to be successful earn alot of money??? But he doesn't want to do economics, he finds it boring. So I guess ultimately he's more bothered about going to a impressive top uni to enable him to get a well paid job, Why do I get the feeling this is not a good way of going about things but what's his options with his neither here or there attitude.

Has he been to many open days. They can really change kids opinions.

Did you see the stats I gave on Warwick Unis physics? ??? Only 53% of students have FM. Warwick is an amazing Uni. I don't see why you think he has shot himself in the foot by not doing further maths. He may have narrowed his choices a little bit but that's all. He just needs to do some proper research and read the actual requirements for each uni.

Or do it for him if you have to It's time for a spreadsheet. Don't hesitate to phone the admissions staff. My DC and I have found them to be helpful at every uni we have ever contacted them.

AugustDay: Did you see the stats I gave on Warwick Unis physics? ??? Only 53% of students have FM. Warwick is an amazing Uni.

Further to the Which Uni site, I notice that 91% of applicants to Warwick are made offers compared to only 50% for Birmingham. Sounds like a good bet if he can get his act together and focus his efforts on getting the grades - certainly drop down to three A2s and an EPQ based firmly in his sphere of interest, which he can then make full reference to in his personal statement. Don't forget, 70% of the statement needs to focus on why he wants to read Physics.

Think carefully about the EPQ.
DD dropped her's at around this time, to focus on getting three good grades she asked Cambridge, Bristol and Warwick if they valued them (Arts subject admission tutors, not physics) and they were all a bit meh about them. She was at an indie that pushed them and I think they can be helpful if you haven't got much relevant stuff to put on your PS but with 4 other A levels they are very time consuming.

It might be that the Birmingham Uni Physics course is part of Birmighams Unconditional Offer Scheme? (I haven't looked)

I wouldn't read too much into Unistats - it only tells you so much and what it's telling you is historical and sometimes incomplete. Things change all the time with University admissions. The information you can get from Unistats/WhichUni

For example In previous years the applicant offer rate for Oxbridge for medicine has been higher than other Uni but it's definitely not easier to get in.

I would actually agree with your DS's assessment that the uni is more important than the subject if he doesn't want to be a professional physicist. The grade he ends up with is important too!

Physics degree is a fantastic choice. Huge number of career possibilities follow, he doesn't need to choose just which one yet.

I hope he finds the right course soon.

august ds went to the Warwick open day, and asked the students who were on the physics course if they had FM, majority had it, so that kind of told him what he was up against it was same at Nottingham. Those that didn't have it were mainly state school with no FM available.

I don't think he should take the risk having no FM, so hoping ds will drop bio and self teach FM. School already said he won't be able to join the lower 6th form AS FM group as it clashes with his economics. He won't drop economics as he says although it's boring but its fairly easy compared to the others and is confident in getting a A in that one.
His physics teacher advised him to do a MBA after a physics degree. Since he is money motivated but has no career path?? I think school is doing their best to advise DS, brainstorming to give him some ideas.

With how things stand. Getting him to the best uni he can get to, might be his best bet at the moment. UCL is 3A for physics is there a catch it in some where?? How come it's low compared to say Durham and Warwick?? But its more renowned, does DS stand a better chance at getting a offer there I wonder. Since we thinking along lines of 2 aspirational uni.

yonic you don't think he's completely wrong going for prestige of uni rather than degree. Maybe in ds case is best way he's clueless with careers.
Thanks yeolde so far the consensus from school and wise people is that, he can't go wrong with a physics degree. I hope so

I agree a physics degree is a good one for careers. I wouldn't do an MBA straight after, do something professional first even if it's for a couple if years. MBA can be good for a career change!

Don't rule out places like Heriott Watt which have excellent links with industry and offer a wide range of physics related courses.

Most Scottish universities offer entry direct to second year with A levels.

Regarding the MBA it's not always a game changer, but does make you stand out against other candidates without an MBA (from experience of DH having two science degrees and an MBA).

HERE are the WhichUni stats for Physics at UCL

I think your son is making a mistake to rule out Warwick just because he isn't doing FM without speaking to the admissions department first. Depending on their admissions policy it might not make any difference at all that he doesn't have FM. He can't know without asking. Admissions policies change from time to time so asking exsisting students may not be relevant.

If you're money-orientated with a physics degree there are still "rocket science" jobs in finance in the City. Not all of them involve selling your morals down the river.

august thanks for the link, looks like UCL is more competitve! ! Only 37% getting offers even though they ask for the lower grade offer of the 3 uni I've mentioned. DS is going to email Warwick physics up best way. Think with Durham/Manchester he should forget, think he got no hope there, his application will be very weak compared to the others.

Aspirational:- 2 from either Warwick/UCL or Bristol.
Leicester being the easy fall back option

Just need to find 2 realistic ones now.

Was looking at MBA programmes, its so expensive!! Makes me wonder if the career it leads to, will the pay be big enough to recoup the investment back?

"Only 37% getting offers even though they ask for the lower grade offer of the 3 uni I've mentioned. "

Well, the later implies the former, surely; more people will apply if the grades are lower. Both those predicted higher grades wanting a fall back and those whose grade predictions wouldn't allow them to apply to certain other places.

As I said, I would get some work experience before an MBA; I was convinced i would do one at some point but haven't so far!

DH did a part time MBA (evenings and weekends), sponsored by his company. It's a lot of work compared to doing it full time, as you're still working full time in your day job, but you have the advantage of applying the knowledge to your day job and doing work-related MBA projects.

An MBA in itself won't guarantee a top job, but it's a differentiator (advice given to us by a friend who works in senior management development).

Ah yes I get it now yonic Since the pool of applicants will be from firm and insurers for AAA course they will have more applicants to sift out hence why low 37% offer rate. Whereas Warwick may have less applicants as those people applying will be predominantly firmers no insurers in the mix. So this could explain why they give more offers.

Also as more people live I. London it may have a higher number of applicants overall as there are more who could live at home and save money.

From observation top physics courses are very competitive with good RG Universities often asking for 2xA* especially without FM.

The decision is whether he wants to aim for the best course available. If he should either self study AS maths (DS who is on an economics course that demands AS Further Maths has been surprised at how many have self studied, but also says that because the pace is fast it is an advantage to have taken FM to A2). Or he takes a gap year and takes a single A level at a tutorial college or through an on-line course. He not be the first to change his mind and who then needs to fill the gaps.

Alternatively he spreads the net a bit wider and looks for a course which does not require Further Maths. Physics seems to be a subject that many of the traditional red-bricks do well at. Perhaps look at Manchester, Sheffield, Lancaster. However without FM he may well find that the grades demanded are higher.

Julie
Ah yes I get it now yonic Since the pool of applicants will be from firm and insurers for AAA course they will have more applicants to sift out hence why low 37% offer rate. Whereas Warwick may have less applicants as those people applying will be predominantly firmers no insurers in the mix. So this could explain why they give more offers

I don't know the reason that the stats are showing that Birmingham has a much lower offer rate but I doubt it's because of this. If that were the case then you would expect low acceptance rates for most courses at similarly ranked universities which is most definitely not the case.

The low acceptance rate could be due to any number of reasons. Perhaps Birminghams ranking for physics were very strong that year compared with their slightly more lenient grades, or, perhaps, as I suggested earlier, they gave out a lot of unconditional offers as part of their unconditional offer scheme. Perhaps Birmingham admissions requirements were not clear and a lot of applicants applied who didn't meet the requirements.

As suggested earlier I wouldn't take the stats at face value and I'd call the university and ask.

Please don't get hung up on RG universities, there are many superb universities that aren't in it, Bath and Loughborough come to mind( not thinking specifically about Physics) It is simply a pressure group of universities that happen to offer medicine. Even universities that are in the group say it is awarded artificially high levels of importance by schools and parents.

It sounds as though your DS is looking at Physics as being "least bad" rather than something he actively enjoys.
Has he looked at what other options he could study?
Staying with Warwick, they offer an engineering and management course. Perhaps a course like this with a practical element may appeal more?