Despite having the right grades, my child is not applying to Oxbridge because ....

[TalkinPeace]

• she wants to live in self catered accommodation
• she does not like the small sizes of the colleges / social units
• having to go back to college for lunch while doing a lab based degree does not make sense
• the whole gown and formal dinner stuff smacks of coat tails rather than standing on own feet
• she does not fancy fighting through hordes of tourists while moving between buildings
• having a tutor picked by which college they are based in rather than their research specialism seems very odd to her

Also, for what she wants to do, the course at Oxford is not that well balanced
and Cambridge, despite having a fab course was not a place that felt like home when she visited for 2 days.

So she will be putting other Universities on her form and taking a great deal of stress out of this house.

For what its worth, those of her friends I've chatted to are also ruling out Oxbridge in favour of other Unis because of the first four points.

What are other people's reasons for ruling out Oxbridge, despite having the grades?

She needs to apply when she feels she wants to go. Not a place where other people feel you should go. Otherwise she might not be happy. Oxbridge is out for lots of people, not just on grades, but they don't always do the course you might be interested in.

Interestingly, I read a report by the Sutton trust on whether graduates gained a premium because they went to Oxbridge or very selective unis. They do, but even more interestingly when other variables are removed eg a level results, type of school, degree course, parental education etc the earning premium of a female going to a RG / Oxbridge uni was zero. The suggestion was that the premium was gained due to background factors not the uni itself.

Headofthehive
The suggestion was that the premium was gained due to background factors not the uni itself.
tee hee

I was also on the verge of asking why Oxbridge have the same drop out rate as other top Unis despite the
interview / extra exams / first dibs / cannot apply to the other
faffing

which makes me think that random has its place

and yes, its like any school, the well connected input reflects the well connected output
and that mobility died a while back

TP the thing is that your sound bites don't really reflect reality, presumably because you don't know very much at all about contemporary Oxbridge.

Sometimes you can't quite grasp why you don't want something but try to explain it - not always to everyone's satisfaction. I think there is what's regarded as a sensible choice, universally approved etc. people give allsorts of explanations why they don't like a certain house or boyfriend etc. and I think it's just preference.

TP you know perfectly well that the drop out rates for Oxbridge and the other most selective universities are extraordinarily low.

Why those tiny numbers drop out is very individual.

Yes, Oxbridge interview, but tutors do not have a crystal ball. They cannot predict the future. At no point do tutors say the system is infallible. But that is a long long way from random.

SGADM obviously asking the question 'Why are drop out rates at the very top universities so incredibly low' doesn't add much grist to TPs mill.

Of course it's not random.

Why on earth has TP been referring to her DD as an Oxbridge applicant for so long if she didn't ask the DD first? Just daft, jumping that particular gun - almost guaranteed to end in tears.

Also, there must be one or two good reasons for applying. After all, thousands upon thousands each year do........

Headofthehive - what was the negative earning impact of a female with that background who did not attend a RG university?

TP should probably ask for the thread to be pulled. I'm not sure where this endless highlighting (by herself and other PP) of the huge chip on her shoulder is going but it isn't productive or useful for anything beyond psychological analysis.

If you were hell bent of finding problems with Oxbridge, there are some genuine ones (though some of 'em are personal preference rather than problematic IYSWIM) but drop out rates aint one of them.

Though, I suppose the more pertinent question is why would you be hell bent on finding problems with Oxbridge?

boho i can't remember specifically, but it was interesting to see that the actual type of uni mattered much less than the choice of degree subject.

Even if it made a difference, shouldn't people go where they want and feel comfortable and not feel the need to defend themselves? I think as a society we are wedded to the herd mentality. If you don't like a place, then you don't like it! I don't blame her! I lived in Cambridge for three years. In my opinion it is not the best place I've lived. But each to their own.

But going against the herd can make you feel on a limb, and it's only natural to reassure yourself by trying to link up with others feeling the same way.

I agree head but better to link up in a positive way; why are we all choosing LSE? What's great about St Andrews?

Not trying to marshal those against somewhere. While you're doing that, you're still giving it head space. You think it will make you feel better, but it won't.

Onwards and upwards. Always.

I think that the DD is should try to start ruling in unis that she might be ok with, because she seems to be rather better at ruling out. I get that some DC might want a whole new experience of a place they've never been to, but to rule out the whole of London and lots of other good unis because a family member had once set foot in them is fairly picky I'd have thought. If my DC took that line I'd advise them to get a grip, on the grounds of cutting off their nose etc. The universities are big places and you've no need to interact even with the same generation, who are actually there. By the time this DD has finished she might find no decent uni/ place left. Most of mine had their forms ready to go by now as far as I remember.

Cross post with SGADM.

drop out rates of those with good A levels is less than for those with less good A levels so that highly selective universities have low drop out rates is not surprising. The really interesting thing is why this, presumably less selective, university does so well www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/universities-and-colleges/9946575/University-of-Wales-Trinity-Saint-David-guide.html and whether anything can be learnt from that.

headofthehive55 all newspaper reports of that Sutton Trust report talk about the Oxbridge premium and being higher for those who are the first in their family to go to university. e.g www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/oxbridge-earnings-premium-laid-bare

If this is different for men and women it didn't come out in the press and would be of interest to all feminists. The full report is here www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Earnings-by-Degrees-REPORT.pdf

Yes quite alreadytaken. But my point was simply that the questions are all very negatively phrased, not that low drop out rates are surprising.

There are battles not really worth tackling when you are clearly severely outnumbered and the data is against you. Trying to list endless faults with Oxbridge might be one of them .

There have been 842 posts on this thread and in all honesty, I'm no nearer to understanding the point the OP is trying to make

Molio - DD1's forms most definitely not ready to go. And UCAS down this weekend. :( Internal deadline is Friday though so hopefully she will meet that for both types of application. She's done the second draft of her PS and is probably going to hand that one in to school - can't help comparing with the person we know who got in for the same subject last year who submitted his 8th draft though...but in all honesty DD1 doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to do 8 drafts. If that means she doesn't have what it takes to get in then, well, she doesn't.

joni - the OP's position is that, since her DD's prospects of getting in to Oxbridge are poor, she has decided to try to save face and convince herself that her DD doesn't want to go to Oxbridge anyway. The thread is about trying to drum up a lot of (largely spurious, though not all) faults with Oxbridge that make it not quite good enough for her DD.

joni what the thread is about is the obsession mumsnet has with Oxbridge and the inability of most posters to look at the two universities with any objectivity.

I have now read the Sutton Trust report and fund no mention of a sex differential for Oxbridge although it does say that there isn't one for Russell Group generally. Perhaps there is one and they chose not to look for it or found one but did not publicise it. The lack of comment on sex differences is interesting when they are usually highly significant.

The salary differential between Oxbridge and other universities could in part be Oxbridge graduates, who are still more likely to be from the south east, being initially more likely to take jobs in London. No mention of this in the report either.

TP your child will choose another good university where her chances of dropping out will be lower because she hasn't been pushed into choosing one she didnt like. She may have a slightly lower chance of getting a graduate job quickly but the "oxbridge effect" diminishes with time and is far less important for women than just making the decision to go to any university.

That's direct then Bobo.

Uhtred she's in the right general frame time-wise, not still ruling out lots of good universities because she doesn't like the colour of their paint.

alreadytaken that's a caricature. For the moment, flavour of the month seems to be some sort of inverted snobbery about Oxbridge which does more harm than good to precisely those prospective applicants who need encouragement.

I was quite pleased with my synthesis of an 800+ post thread ;)

Definitely. All credit :)

Molio - I'm not so sure about that! She's only applying to 3 universities anyway because she won't countenance anywhere else (Uni wise) and she has discounted 2 maybe 3 conservatoires for possibly spurious reasons...but she will still have 4 maybe 5 conservatoires and 3 unis on her applications so that should be a decent spread...