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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Oxford -- PPE or Economics with Management

210 replies

shockthemonkey · 27/07/2015 13:24

This is the question one of my charges is struggling with.

We all know how hard PPE at Oxford is -- but its acceptance rate at 15% appears better than for Economics and Management at the same uni, with just 7% of applicants accepted.

Whilst he's looking closely at course content, and discovering more about the other four choices he'd be going for in either scenario (PPE or Econ with Mgt), does anyone have any thoughts about the programme choice?

I have no reservations about his academic level nor his commitment to doing what it takes to give him the very best chances. I just know, though, that he'll ask me whether one is "easier" to get in for than the other.

Before looking at the acceptance rates, I would always have said PPE is harder. Even looking at the 15% vs 7% I still think this may be the case -- Econ and Mgt may be attracting more "borderline" candidates than PPE because I cannot imagine schools in the UK encouraging anyone other than their very brightest to go for PPE.

Does anyone have any experiences to share? Thanks!

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 30/07/2015 10:00

Yes and no. It depends on the candidate profile. Its sounds as if your son is a gifted historian and so would have been a very strong candidate. But not really fair on other good historians who applied and did not get places.

halvedfees · 30/07/2015 10:14

All I am saying is (according to the school) that subjects such as History are more predictable as to who will get in. That's all - I'm not putting anyone down.

Needmoresleep · 30/07/2015 10:31

Accepted. And don't worry about Warwick. Lots would bite his hand off for a place. If DS had had an offer, he would have considered it seriously. (If only to get a reasonable distance from home!) It's a University that students seem to really enjoy.

HocusUcas · 30/07/2015 11:18

Actually when the school refers to Oxford "not always getting it right", they are referring to PPE and E&M courses only where it does seem to be much more of a lottery. Other courses - such as History, Classics - they are much more predictable.

Halved

To be fair I do not think you can call the Oxford process for any subject a "lottery". Does it have an element of personal judgment - of course. Is it perfect - probably not.

I would love to know where your son goes to school that they think history is a "predictable" subject for Oxford admission. And also for different reasons classics.

HocusUcas · 30/07/2015 11:25

Full disclosure - my son got an offer for history from Oxford. He was turned down flat by LSE.

I say that because I think my last sentence on last post came across wrongly.
Any good university will make their own decision. DS was disappointed of course with that rejection.

HocusUcas · 30/07/2015 11:28

By "wrongly" - I mean downright rude. I apologise.

Bonsoir · 30/07/2015 11:32

Not Warwick because, as you yourself said earlier, it is such a soulless place and there are much better locations to spend three years of your young life!

MrsUltracrepidarian · 30/07/2015 11:41

it is such a soulless place
Shock
Did you mean to be so rude?

halvedfees · 30/07/2015 11:46

By predictable I mean that the school can look at the candidate's application and give a good guess at their chances of getting in - they know better what the History, Classics etc depts are looking for in a candidate.

For PPE/E&M they haven't a clue :)

Bonsoir - I know from an adult's pov Warwick is soulless. But it is a good course and when you're young you are able to adapt much more easily.

Original poster
shockthemonkey · 30/07/2015 11:47

Queen, to answer your question a couple of pages back on this thread, I understand that yes, you will get three interviews for PPE, one for each subject.

Which is one of the reasons PPE is so dicey to apply for -- you have to knock the socks off of three different interviewers at least, that is if you even get as far as interview. And possibly repeat the process if you get into the pool.

Regular, if you are reading this, I should imagine you get two interviews for E&M but maybe I am wrong?

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 30/07/2015 11:48

We need to be factual on this thread - it's not a tourist brochure Wink

halvedfees · 30/07/2015 11:48

it is such a soulless place
shock
Did you mean to be so rude?

Sorry didn't think that was rude, just my opinion. It is just like a big business park.

I'm not saying it isn't a good uni - it is.

Bonsoir · 30/07/2015 11:53

Several French candidates of mine visited Warwick on post-offer days this year. They all (including my DSS2) put Warwick as one of their UCAS choices: Warwick does lots of marketing to EU candidates so everyone has heard of it, everyone knows someone who is there and offers seem easy to come by if your grade predictions meet the requirements. And quite a lot of French candidates have a hard time finding 5 courses/universities they are interested in. None of my candidates who visited on post-offer days firmed or insured Warwick thereafter...

Needmoresleep · 30/07/2015 11:53

Odd then that the satisfaction rates are so high!

I assume Bonsoir is speaking from a French perspective. There certainly appears to be a contingent of French students who want nothing more than hanging out with other French students somewhere in South Ken, but coming back with a degree from a prestigious and world ranked University. Being stuck in a field outside Coventry must be hellish!

I have flagged up the danger of anomie at LSE. And I think it is fair to say that not all students thrive at Oxbridge with its short terms, high expectations and heavy work load. Warwick is a large and vibrant campus, with lots going on. Absolutely anecdotal, but it seems to be a place students really enjoy.

Bonsoir · 30/07/2015 11:56

Why don't you investigate the UCAS data on where French UCAS candidates really apply, NeedMoreSleep, rather than inventing your own from the perspective of a South Ken coffee shop?Wink

halvedfees · 30/07/2015 11:59

needmoresleep - did your ds put Warwick down as one of his choices?

Needmoresleep · 30/07/2015 12:07

Bonsoir

I wish you would stop saying this

"offers seem easy to come by if your grade predictions meet the requirements"

It is not so. It may be that Warwick give greater weight to candidates who can offer a second language and an international background. However it is not easy to gain a place and continually suggesting it is, is rude.

When we went to the Open Day they suggested they would receive 2000+ qualified applicants, eg those meeting entrance criteria. From memory they had about 350 places. Given many British candidates are worried about cost and social life in London, Warwick is very often second choice after, particuarly, Cambridge. Lots of qualified candidates are rejected.

DS was not the only one not to get an offer. Neither did a well qualified, first generation University, father a manual worker, applicant we know of. Warwick must have thought they were both reasonably good as both were offered alternative courses. But not economics.

It is horses for courses. DS, as a city child, did not really see the attraction of a campus Univeristy, but I think had he gone there, he would have felt it had been good to leave his comfort zone.

Needmoresleep · 30/07/2015 12:18

Halved fees.

As I said up thread, his school advice (and it was a school where close to 50% get Oxbridge offers) was that economics was really competitive. He was good enough (4A* prediction, including double maths) to get into any of the top four, but none could be guaranteed. He should apply for all of them, and reapply if he did not get any. He got LSE, but not Cambridge, Warwick or UCL. But thats fine! He tells me another boy reapplied and got Cambridge not LSE, whilst someone who tried again for Cambridge did not get an offer from LSE second time round.

In short your DS should be proud of what he has achieved. If he really does not want to go to Warwick he should not. Otherwise it is a well regarded course at a well regarded University with some distinct advantages over its comparators. (Including from the sound of it, no French Grin)

Bonsoir · 30/07/2015 12:47

NeedMoreSleep - I have only said that French bac candidates find it easy to get offers at Warwick, never that English (or other) candidates do. TBH I have never encountered a French bac UCAS candidate who met the grade predictions and had a reasonable PS/reference that didn't get an offer from Warwick, for any subject.

Bonsoir · 30/07/2015 13:01

In the same vein, it is incredibly hard for French bac candidates to get offers at Edinburgh or St Andrews. There is nothing wrong, on a thread which is about a French UCAS candidate applying to the UK, with sharing experience that is relevant to others. You clearly have a massive issue with French students in the UK and these threads always bring out your resentment (and anecdata).

Needmoresleep · 30/07/2015 13:02

Bonsoir, then perhaps you need to be careful to caveat your statements. Your students may not value the offers they get but there will be plenty of students who are bitterly disappointed not to get an offer. (Just look at TSR.) I appreciate you are not English, but at times your statements can suggest that everything French is good and everything English is inferior, except oddly one or two of our University degrees.

Needmoresleep · 30/07/2015 13:05

In terms of Edinburgh and St Andrews, you will know the reasons. My understanding is that things are not easy for Scottish students either.

Easier for English as they pay more! Which I suspect may be true for International students on some English courses.

Bonsoir · 30/07/2015 13:05

You need to read my posts more closely: the caveat is always there Smile

Bonsoir · 30/07/2015 13:07

I'm 100% English.

Needmoresleep · 30/07/2015 13:16

Really? But someone who has clearly chosen to live overseas, and to educate their children in what they consider to be a superior system. That fine. However this is your choice and not necessarily the best choice for everyone.

I am almost certain that Halvedfees son is English. I am not sure that suggesting French students consider Warwick easy to get into and not a nice place to spend three years, is particuarly helpful. Anecdote perhaps, but we know plenty of students who have been delighted to get offers from Warwick, and have loved it when they are there.

And absolutely no resentment. DS was perfectly happy to get one of his top four choices. I can see why a French student might struggle to find five English Universities they want to attend, as they will almost certainly be applying to French options as well. However English students are normally happier to take a wider view and see advantages in a range of Universities.