Liberal Arts Degree - who why where and how?

[Dunlurking]

Does anyone know much about these degrees? Who they are best for, what they do for you as a person and a career basis, where would be good to try in terms of university and how to get in - how competitive they are?

Ds a bit undecided about History, his best subject, as his first degree, loves drama and is a good mathematician, (and doesn't want to throw a language into the mix, which some seem to have). ASs being taken are History, Maths, Theatre Studies and Physics (which he is determined to drop). Is a Liberal Arts degree a reasonable option to explore?

What do you think BA stands for? Batchelor of Arts! All university degrees in this country and the oldest American universities (the 7 oldest are known as the Ivy League)were a combination of law, rhetoric, classical languages and theology. Every American uni degree is a Liberal Arts degree unless it is a Batchelor of Science degree where a student applies for undergrad pre-med or engineering. Even a BS will demand that you take classes in other disciplines. The aim is to create well-rounded students.. I still tease my father, who did undergrad engineering for his C grade in English Lit.
American unis allow you to do 2 years of sampling whatever classes interest you (and most demand that you fulfil core requirements- 1 Lit class, 1 Maths, 1 Science etc) out of the 5 you take each semester (10 per year). In your final 2 years, you must rack up at least 10 classes in your 'major' subject area. You still graduate with a BA or BS. People ask where you went to uni and then what your major was. Many students go on to do a Masters for professional qualifications. It is not an 'airhead' degree. It is what is printed on every American diploma. Got that? Or would you rather keep typing crap?
LibArts in the UK is a pale imitation.

Yes it's a shame that the UK degrees aren't broader. My mother's Maths degree from Cambridge is a BA (well MA as they convert them) but she certainly never did any of the traditional arts subjects for it!

So pleased you posted OP. My DS is quite similar to yours - doing classical civilisation, history, economics and maths and looking at ancient history/history/Class Civ for uni, but would really like to chuck in some business related modules. Is rubbish at modern languages but would be OK to start a classical language provided it was brief and at a low level!

We have been looking at LA courses. He doesn't like Bristol and Exeter is quite skills/theory based which he doesn't want, but he is going to the LA presentation at the Durham open day. Birmingham also does it. I find the courses vary hugely. Some like Durham are mostly a pick and mix of modules whereas Exeter is quite distinct.

DH was very sniffy when I mentioned LA, thinking it was media studies with a fancy title, but when you read the prospectuses that is not the case. Most of the courses are very new so really interested in people's thoughts.

No mention of UCL?

www.ucl.ac.uk/basc/prospective

Slightly more than 10% of DS' year group were looking to study in the US and the school highlighted this course as an interesting alternative. Language can be studied ab initio.

Views on the relative merits of Liberal Arts may depend on where you come from. Certainly many of the Americans we have come across appear to consider American liberal arts degrees, albeit from name schools, far superior than anything Britain has to offer in the way of humanities education, with the possible exception of Oxbridge. Interestingly though their scientist DC often seem to opt for Imperial/Oxbridge. I assume the more specialised course is attractive if you now what you want to specialise in. My assumption is that first degree education in the States is seen more as continuing broad education that studying a specific subject. Some of the well regarded Liberal Arts Colleges are extrememly small, suggesting quite a different experience from a UK University.

OP said he didn't want to go to London, otherwise yeah, all sorts of interesting courses at UCL (and other London unis).

Wonder whether PPE type course might appeal? Maths very useful there!

mateysmum tell him to have a really in-depth look at courses. E.g. at Leeds if you do straight Classical Civilisation, you can spend a third of your time doing Discovery Modules from any other area (depending on timetable clashes!) - webprod3.leeds.ac.uk/catalogue/dynprogrammes.asp?Y=201516&P=BA-CLCV

(I mention Leeds only because I went to the open day and know about the course, not affiliated with them in any way!)

I wish he would consider London places Needmoresleep especially as he loves performing arts - what's not to like!

Atiao thanks you for that about the Classical Civilisation discovery modules thing - he was very interested in that. Not PPE - he did 16th century history to avoid the politics in the more modern history A level course sadly: would have prefered that to some of the French history I've had spouted at me over the last few weeks

mateysmum I'v just booked us onto the Liberal Arts talk at Durham 22 June. I didn't realise he could go to 3 subject talks. Thank you. If we can coincide anywhere I'll buy you a coffee! I haven't looked at the nitty gritty of the courses yet so off to see how the skills/theory base of Exeter's works. Oh and Warwick - ds says there's nothing much there yet as the course is so new.

Dunlurking that's the day we are going. We are doing 2 subject talks and 3 colleges. Perhaps we need to have a secret mumsnet code - pink carnation in the buttonhole type thing!

Atia thanks for the tip on Leeds. Now DS has only 2 more AS exams to go I'm trying to get him to do more uni research.

Dunlurking could you get him to a UCL open day? We know several DC who were quite sure they did not want to study in London, who were then blown away by UCL. It has more of a campus feel than its immediate comparators and the advantage of offering a wide range of subjects often competing with Oxbridge in terms of international prestige. UCL also has better accommodation provision and an innovative deposit guarantee scheme to encourage landlords. Scope for a year abroad in all sorts of interesting places and London's theatreland on your door step.

In terms of money really a lot of scope for things like casual event waitering in the run up to Christmas etc. my understanding was that this degree was set up with the aim of competing with the best of the American liberal arts degrees.

mateysmum I will put my mind to a suitable pink carnation style emblem!

Needsmoresleep I have just been reading the UCL course details and I like the rigorous sound of it. I will try to get him to at least read the blurb. It looks like you have to be invited to the open day by proving you have the necessary A levels/IB in hand. Going back to read it more carefully..

No, you can go to a talk about the BASC course on the normal open days, I see. It gets complicated applying though...

I suggest looking at King's College London...

... they allow you to send in a second PS as they recognise you may be applying to quite different courses in your other target unis

Thanks shockthemonkey. It looks good but ds adamant he doesn't want to study in London. I will get him to read their blurb though to help write his PS.

Sure thing! I had seen that London was out, and maybe he has good reason... so I brought up King's in the full knowledge that it may be rejected out of hand. But if you CAN get him to a UCL open day then why not King's too?

London or no, I have some more material that might help in PS writing for liberal arts if you like. Just pm me!

I second a Scottish arts/language based degree. At Glasgow you do three subjects in first and second year and, depending on what you are aiming for, there is the possibility of doing one or two different subjects in second year. Great place to be a student too.

Royal Holloway is sometimes a good compromise re London: it's set in glorious countryside, but only 40 minutes from central London. Very easy to get in to see stuff on the South Bank particularly.

My ds is going to do the BASc at UCL (if he gets the grades...). The process is: apply with normal personal statement, if they are interested because of your results, school ref etc they send you a questionnaire geared to BASc. If they like your responses you are invited to an open day (not the normal open day) where you listen to four lectures, one in each of the pathways offered, and then answer two questions, one from your major pathway and one from what might be your minor, showing that you can make links and connections and think in interesting ways because the point of the course is that it is inter-disciplinary.

And as far as I know, BASc is the only course where you can do arts and sciences, not just social sciences.

Sorry. I've been off mumsnet for a few days entertaining my American visitors. However I have been talking Liberal Arts degrees with my s-in-law.

Thanks for the offer shock the monkey, I'll do that.

Hullygully that's really interesting about the additional PS and the open day and how it worked for your ds. I hope he makes the grades OK. Is his offer the same as the website states, do you mind me asking?

Thanks JellicleCat and UptheChimney, I'll pass all that on to ds. It's whether we can get to all the Open Days....

What did your SIL say about US Liberal Arts degrees, Dunlurking?

dunlurking - yes, same as website: three As

Hully, what is the name of the degree your DS will hopefully be studying? Sounds right up DD's street, although she would prefer the US and to avoid London in the UK!

BASc, Leeds2

Link was posted above, but again

www.ucl.ac.uk/basc/prospective

There is more on student room. Far cheaper than the US.

I'm puzzled lljkk about your stance on a Liberal Arts degree. As several posters above have stated, the degree given at the top colleges and undergraduate parts of universities (the Ivys, Stanford, etc) are liberal arts degrees. I certainly don't think that a degree from Amherst, Harvard undergrad, Princeton are ridiculed.

These schools do not give a degree in the subject you major in, but at BS/BA. The student chooses a particular major, but has a requirement of taking a broad based curriculum on top of the classes in the major -This is a liberal arts degree in America.