The best course/University for a Maths degree.

[Mel2Mel]

My DS will be starting his As levels next year. He is a capable mathematician and highly motivated.
I would really appreciate your advice on the best University for him to study Maths and what are the differences between the courses from one University to another.
Thank you very much in advance

laughingcow as the thread has developed it has become clear that the OP's DS is one of a very select group of young mathematicians invited to the UKMT summer schools and she knows a number of mathematicians (obviously not 'failed economists'). Her DS and she are therefore well supplied with advice and she herself is in the position to be supportive to those less well informed.
Her views and tone of responses to other posters are not a request for information.

senua
Actually you are one of the 1st who came on this thread not with the intention to be helpful.

My question was very clear but your comments were:

*I'm not sure that OP is asking the right question. Maths is a very single-minded subject. To get into The Best Universities you have to be very, very good at Maths. TBU are not totally convinced that A Levels are up to the job of differentiating (pun not intended) between good pupils and the best pupils. Hence why just-Maths is not a good idea, you should have Further Maths too. And UKMT. And maybe STEP.
So have a look around TBU and at their entry requirements - make sure that his sixth form is up to the job of preparing him properly.

An up-and-coming place that fits your 'small town' criteria is Bath, which has had many recommendations on MN.

arf @ twf saying Cambridge is "quite hard" to get into. Understatement or what!grin The place at Camb for Maths is Trinity*

I don't think that Oxford requires STEP - they have their own Admissions Test.

Ah, I get you twf. Hard to get into and hard to get to.
We're not really selling it well, are we.grin

WordFactory started off helpful but then couldn't help but to reverse to 'nature'.

Some came on this thread just to stop any other opinion! I was more interested in hearing from the ones who have first hand experience, partner's experience or their children's experience.

no one on MN has an obligation to be helpful to you but they are not under any obligation to stop others or divert the thread either.
In your case, you weren't under any obligation to dismiss my question and replace it with yours, were you?

laughingcow13 No it doesn't sound right to me either! I am starting to realise that they don't have a uniform way of selecting.

When we visited the previous week, we heard different statements regarding the same issue. When I asked one of the professors, his advice was to leave no stone uncovered and try to tick all the boxes.
They do admit that the selection system is far from perfect.

leave no stone unturned

WordFactory wrote that Cambridge is quite hard to get to, not to get into. I think she meant that if you want to do other things it's harder from somewhere which takes longer to reach by car/train than other universities, she wasn't being irritating imho.

Eastpoint I agree with you and my response to her was His grandma lives in Cambridge, we manage to get there even though I don't like to wink but senua obviously jumped straight away to what she ha in mind.

Well that was strange! D's went to Cambridge maths open day yesterday and they made a big deal about want I g people who would fit in and contribute to college life. This was very surprising as previously we have heard that it is only interest in, and ability in the subject that counts ((confused)) Your comment has made me look at the small print so from what I have found out so far....St John's, for example, makes this part of the criteria they are looking for but not all colleges. They have the Tutor for mathmos who will interview them and his main concern will be to find out what they can contribute to the college in addition to their academic skills.

I am all for support and helpful advice on MN. But when OP makes a rather low perception on a certain profession (private tutors) I had to ask for clarification of why she felt that way towards those careers. Hence another poster and I tried to explain what we do, so she is more informed and have a less prejudiced/generalised view. In my defence for her, it maybe OP has a narrow view on certain profession because she lives in a environment so different from the rest of us, she doesn't know any better or she is from overseas but whatever the reason, she didn't answer our question but instead became rather condescending and sarcastic, to the point I felt she was inkling that tutoring isnt a respectable profession, but it should be a free service. My profession is seen so low in her eyes that if her child embarked on it after he graduated she would be very disappointed as he would have wasted all his efforts and his brain! I think needmoresleep in your long post earlier in which you got berated by OP some of your thoughts do resonate with some of my thinking and experiences of what goes on in wider grand scheme of things.

But senua only said it's tough to get into Cambridge.

Is that really controversial ?

You seem absurdly irritated by not much OP.

Op, I agree with the poster who said Trinity Cambridge. You will find not only the Olympiad types but people who have been nominated for Nobels at the age of 23. ( I've known one.)

Cambridge overall.

Then imperial and Warwick. Oxford not so good.

But that's looking at maths, simply maths. It depends on whether you want a different sort if experience, a different reputation, etc.

What about the U.S. ?

lizzieMizz For your information, I would rather see my DS working at the customer service counter in a supermarket than start a tutoring career JUST after University because I would like him to interact with people more and if he really wants to teach because he is so passionate and wants to make a difference then I would rather see him CHALLENGING himself and teach in an environment where he would make a difference in his own life first and the life of others. This is my wish for my DS ONLY

I am really worried about you so I am putting together a summery for you then you can see clearly what I was saying:

• May I remind all those testosterone filled, rage road type respondents of the precision of my earlier comments ''What surprises most is when some manage to get a first from Cambridge to become private tutors. I've had this conversation with my DH this morning and to go through all that hurdle just to become a tutor'' and ''I totally agree with you on the enjoyment factor. My advice to my DC is always to go for what makes them happy and are keen to do it even for free.'' Tutoring is not a usual career path and that made me wonder....I hope they are doing it out of enjoyment

What I have NOT said is :
1- Private tuition is a bad thing.
2- Setting up a private tuition business is a bad thing.
3- Doing private tuition after a career in mainstream academia is a bad thing.
4- Doing private tuition alongside research is a bad thing.
5- Doing private tuition out of enjoyment is a bad thing.
6- Doing private tuition out of personal satisfaction is a bad thing.

What puzzled me is why there are numerous individuals out there in their 20s who have spent years studying hard through a demanding Tripos plus a masters earning a 1st and have chosen to be private tutors in Maths so early on in their career. ( spinoa has suggested some reasons why this might be)

• Seriously, if he really wants to go for private tuition strait after university, I would beg him and support him to do it for free where it's really needed.

• JUST to make it clear I was puzzled not against.

Since this Thread branched out to Private Tuition, I have emails some of the Private Tutors and I have heard back from them. They are offering Private tuition while waiting to start a job somewhere or they haven't received an employment offer yet. They are using private tuition to keep busy rather than a career choice at this stage.

• LizzieMizz I don't know why you are adamant that I am specifically talking about your case? You haven't left University @ 21 and started a private tuition career, have you?

May I remind you that I have already mentioned the following:

''What I have NOT said is :

1- Private tuition is a bad thing.
2- Setting up a private tuition business is a bad thing.
3- Doing private tuition after a career in mainstream academia is a bad thing.
4- Doing private tuition alongside research is a bad thing.
5- Doing private tuition out of enjoyment is a bad thing.
6- Doing private tuition out of personal satisfaction is a bad thing.''

I taught for 15 years subsequently became a deputy head teacher, but now I tutor I am not ashamed of what I do
Please and please I am far from thinking that you should be ashamed of what you do because there is simply nothing to be ashamed of. From your last post I can see that you care about what you do so I truly wish you all the best.

• I wouldn't want my DS after years of following his dream of academia to stop at 20/21 and start tutoring to make money. I would rather he travels a bit to expand his horizons while working, volunteering,...

I hope you can see that I have nothing against tutors like yourself

ancientbuchanan Regarding the USA, we are thinking about it as well.

Op, I agree with the poster who said Trinity Cambridge. You will find not only the Olympiad types but people who have been nominated for Nobels at the age of 23. ( I've known one.) Yes you are right, they tend to have them from I've heard. A friend of mine went to Trinity's open day, they were told that they get a lot of the international Olympiad.

There is no Nobel prize in Mathematics.

Yes spinoa even John nash got it for Economics not Maths!
How is this helpful in this case???? Get a red pen and mark her paper!

These type of comments stop people, I want to hear from, contributing.

I thought the OP had decided to avoid any institution I've been involved in, in which case she needs to revise her list .

MargratGarlik The laundry department ?

Nah my DS won't be using it

Must you really feel so compelled would resort to begging your ds to tutor for free (as you put it up thread )

Yes I know, I need to join margrat in the laundry dept!

LizzieMizz Yes, he will learn about life and be of greater help in an environment where pupils can't afford paying him. It's not all about money, it is about his growth as a human being which concerns me most.

I hope this helps you to understand my point and come to a closure

No, Mel, the course was rather more competitive than pure maths though , some of us actually proved our ability in the subject, rather than getting snobby without having any track record to back it up.

Btw, are you even actually a graduate yourself? You don't seem to have much knowledge of academic positions. You constantly refer only to "professors", you are aware that your ds will largely be taught by such lowly beings as lecturers and senior lecturers, right? Professors usually have the lowest undergraduate contact time of all the academics in a department due to managing larger research groups and increased admin (in fact, I know several that negotiated contracts with no undergraduate teaching time, but that's a whole other point).

Professors usually have the lowest undergraduate contact time of all the academics They certainly make time to answer emails to prospective students and even correct their work.

Are you running a tutoring business now? What has happened?

....... wasted too much time on being unhelpful on threads?

I think it is relevant to point out that there is no Nobel Prize in Mathematics when a poster claims to know somebody who was nominated for it. (Neither nominations for nor shortlists for the Nobels are made public, by the way.) Not one of the Trinity teaching staff in Maths has a prize at this level, see

www.trin.cam.ac.uk/mathematics-subject-notes

and look up their names. (Highly respected but not Nobel prize in physics or Fields medal in maths level.) Trinity does have the Fields medallist Tim Gowers but he is not really involved in teaching, and there are other Fields medallists elsewhere in the UK (Hairer at Warwick and Donaldson at Imperial/Stony Brook). Note that many of the Trinity maths fellows on the link above did not themselves actually study at undergraduate level at Trinity.

OP clearly doesn't want to hear from people who don't agree with her. I find it amusing that she is rejecting advice from people who are actually professors at the places her "son" wants to go to. The original question does not have a black and white answer: there is no single best place and a number of posters have pointed out very good institutions with expertise in specific directions (LSE for financial maths, for example).

BTW is it normal to on the one hand claim that she would never employ a tutor and then on the other hand email tutors, asking why they are tutoring? Why on earth would anyone waste their time and the tutors' time doing this?

Yep, all is fine, but thank you for your concern .

and even correct their work . I think you are deluding yourself there. Most undergrad assignments are not corrected, given back and redrafted to maximize marks in the way students are used to at school. Many courses have around 200+ students in a single cohort, so on a 5 year degree program there will be 1000+ students an academic may be teaching at any one time. Yes, personal tutors may help out, point in the right direction, give advice, but staff giving lectures, less so.

I take it you're not actually a graduate then.

** You would use this for anything you don't agree with or is above your wildest imagination. As I have told you before, GET A LIFE

As I have told you before, oh dear. I didn't manage to reach the level of education that I did achieve by doing what I was ordered to do. Thinking for myself, you see.

GET A LIFE grin I have a very nice one, thank you all the same.

In the meantime, good luck in your search, it must be difficult having not attended yourself. It's been an absolute delight and all the best xxx