Do some top ranking universities discriminate (not give offers) because they are oxbridge applicants

[fairycakes333]

OK I know what I am saying will be highly controversial and debatable. It really has only come about got us thinking. My dd applied to Oxford declared her module UMS on her application this itself I assume would give a inkling to other universities she applied to that's she is Oxbridge applicant. She was rejected post interview. One of the other top uni she applied to who requires AAA subsequently also rejected her. She achieved all A's in all the modules with high UMS average. She took the rejection quite well was gutted but got over it as she felt the course is competive (not medicine by the way) anyways and there would be many applicants with her type of grades. However she has subsequently found out on student rooms that quite a few applicants have received offers with a lot lower AS grades as her and GCSE to this particular university and have applied after October 15th. Obviously she's a bit peeved but makes us wonder whether some of these top flight uni are marketing themselves as only wanting top students but in reality are only wanting those applicants that have a higher percentage of firming them, as I would expect that say someone who has achieved AACC would firm AAA as it would be their highest offer. Universities that are offering courses with high grades I'm assuming again would never be a Insurance so top uni would have to be quite sure who they choose to offer places and that they will firm them only makes sense, its as though they don't want to take the risk of giving too many offers to top students as many will have applied to other uni with similar oxbrigde entry requirements. My dd has already got a offer from RG uni AAA requirement she loves and is probably going to firm them although she is still waiting on another uni with A*AA requirement. So my question is do some of these top uni play a game of hyping themselves up as being super selective to boost their reputation. My dd wasn't the only good academic applicant who got rejected from this uni there has been quite a few on TSR same course. I don't want to say which uni don't want to out my dd but its a top 7 uni.

I think you are overthinking.

There is a hell of a lot of competition for some courses at some top universities. Don't underestimate it and don't underestimate the fact that grades are not the be all and end all of selection.

Agree with Bonsoir.

There is a lot of competition and universities look not just at grades, but the subjects in which the grades were obtained, the specific exam boards, contextual data for schools and sixth form colleges, extra-curriculars (where relevant), personal statement, school reference,...

Well as she was rejected from one after interview then she obviously didn't interview as well as others - the fact that she'd obviously applied to Oxbridge wouldn't have made any difference (it it was going to make a difference she'd not have been invited for interview in the first place).

The second may well have been because her PS wasn't quite what they wanted, and having made the first sift which rejected those with low AS grades and/or predicted grades (but not those with good AS that happened to be lower than hers). In other words it's an indication that when they have a pot of good applicants, rather than simply offer to the top 100 say, they actually look at other factors. Which is a good thing, and not indicative that they blanket reject obvious Oxbridge applicants.

bosoir that was quick, the thing we couldn't get our head around was that dd had spoken to the admission dept before she applied well before she did her AS exams and they told her because the course is very scientific they are primary looking at subject combo with emphasis on 2 science subjects and high grades GCSE and AS. Dd found a applicant with 1 science subject art and dance that got a offer. I started this thread as a debate we not bitter about what's happened to dd its part of life all this rejection but its for us its interesting to know what goes on really behind the scenes at admission.

I think some of the top Russel group universities are definitely being very aggressive demanding high grade (ABB or above) students give firm commitments in return for an unconditional offer very early.

The reason is that UK university funding from 2014-15 onwards has changed to allow them to take as many ABB grade students as they wish without any limit. This increases the amount of student funding from HEFCE they get. You can read aboutit here. Some universities are even giving out bursaries to ABB students which effectively give the student a share of the HEFCE funding they bring with them.

The Russel group universities in particular are therefore using what is effectively high pressure marketing tactics to attract ABB students who bring extra funding. It is not fair on students and I would like the Govt to review this. Students should not be pressured into choosing a university without being given time to consider carefully or discriminated against for being Oxbridge candidates.

Did she have good evidence of interest in her subject beyond the school syllabus and compelling personal insight into her experiences? IMO those two things are vital to successful applications for top courses.

bonsoir yep she has relevant work experience is still there now wasn't easy getting the place she work as it requires confidentility as dealing with sensitive issues but is highly relevant to her chosen degree. Her PS was geared towards her interest in contempary research in her field of interest. As she wants to go into research and methodology

ABB are not high grades - rather few RG courses take students with less than this and most RG courses don't offer bursaries to students with only ABB predicted.

Nobody has presented any evidence that top universities are discriminating against Oxbridge students. Most students who are offered unconditionals are not pressured to accept them early - the offers only apply if the candidate firms them but it is certainly not widespread practice to insist that candidates accept the offers early.

ABB students don't bring "extra" funding either. Some RG courses are looking to expand student numbers, where they have capacity, because otherwise their income, in real terms, will fall due to the fees not increasing. However most RG courses are much more interested in expanding amongst the AAA+ group of students (at the expense of other RG universities) rather than taking more ABB students at the bottom end (at the expense of lower ranking universities).

Many years ago when I was applying for university, both Durham and Bristol had the reputation that they did not want to be perceived as "Oxbridge reject" universities and so rejected candidates who had applied to Oxbridge who would have been expected to get places at Oxbridge. I have no idea if this is in fact true, but it was certainly the case at my (state) school, which sent around 20-25 to Oxbridge each year, that none of the best students got offers from those universities (and they did not interview at the time so this would have been based only on the form and whatever school report they got, all of which would have been very strong for these students). Even the school told us that if those universities were our genuine first choice, we should not put Oxbridge down as an option.

Morebeta - universities can now recruit as many students as they like regardless of grades.

DS is at one of the universities mentioned above that have a reputation for rejecting Oxbridge applicant but has mentioned in the past how he is one of very few people who didn't apply to Oxbridge. He also knows a few people who rejected Oxbridge for this institution.

Obviously so many top students apply to Oxbridge so it would be foolish for universities to limit themselves to only those that didn't. Universities want the best student and in order to achieve that they have to offer to those also applying to Oxbridge.

bonsoir I also forgot to mention that I think is quite important is that those who had mediocre AS grades and those that had only 1 science subject combo got AAA offer rather than the A*AA for those with high AS grades and right combo of subjects according to this particular university website.

I would urge you not to overthink or analyse your perception of unfair practice based on very limited data. You and your DC may be feeling disappointed that she didn't get all the offers she wanted but there is nothing you can do about it and it isn't a perfect process (it isn't bad however).

Its got to the point that some students at TSR are a bit flustered that they didn't apply to this uni since they had better AS GCSE grades as students who did get offers as they felt they wouldn't have stood a chance as this particular university emphasised they are very selective academically 2 science subjects are a must.

TSR is interesting but not very reliable.

bonsoir as I said before we not bitter, not disappointed either as we believe what will be will be. DD was under the impression that this uni wanted applicants that would do well on their course and its demanding hence the need for high grades. I would have thought with that in mind kids with high grades and subjects would have a greater chance of succeeding and getting 2:1and above then kids with odd subject combos and low AS grades gcse and the need the to resit to achieve the offer grade. Its all very interesting I find. Also maybe in a way good that they give opportunities to those that might have thought they had a hope in hell but get a 2nd chance to shine.

Well given that you actually know nothing about those posting on TSR I don't think you can draw any conclusions whatsoever. They have be from sink schools and have a contextual offer, they may have done another Science A Level 3 years ago, they may have caught the admissions officer on a bad/good day, they might know the admissions officer, someone in the admissions office might have been bribed to offer rather than reject, they might have the best work experience in the world ever, their PS might be incredible, they may have a disability which means their results are a little lower than normal, their predictions might be straight A*s. Hell, they might actually not be telling the truth on TSR!

Ha ha that's very true titchy

You are overthinking.

Loncdon colleges and others will also ask for UMS scores. DS' school automatically gave them in the school reference, wherever you were applying.

You do not know what other candidates are offering. We know DC who seem to have received "generous" offers. However one had already represented the Country in a sport the University was noted for. Another was tri-lingual, if not more (a very mobile childhood, and two parents both with different mother tongues) and applying to a University with a big Erasmus programme. It also depends on how over-subscribed the course is. If there is a high ratio of qualified applicants to places they will be rejecting good candidates on the basis of an off-day at interview or a slightly less sparkling PS.

Others will have got lower offers because of contextualisation, specifiuc family or personal circumstances, or perhaps they are overseas students. (Universities seem to have a rough quota for home or overseas students so grades required can be higher or lower depending on relative demand.)

At the Open Day I went to at Warwick, they were very clear. They would be absolutely mad to discriminate against Oxbridge candidates. Some of their very best students fell into this category and in many cases Oxbridge's loss was their gain.

I'm sure every university would like to be first choice .

But I've never heard of any university rejecting those who tried for Oxbridge. It would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

What's far more likely to have happened here, as others have said, is that students have received contextualised offers.

needmoresleep my dd has a offer from Warwick her course there isn't competitive is advertised AAB requirement was in clearing last year. Its going to be her insurance. I've realised Iam really asking 3 things
Is there discrimination for Oxbridge applicants?
Why would top uni requiring top grades reject good solid academic applicants Vs applicants with mediocre grades and that require resits, and those that have irrelevant subject combos?
Do some top uni hype themselves up as superselective as a way to boost there reputation. By requiring top grades But in reality aren't as rigourous as they sell themselves to be?
So far I gather most people think I'm over thinking it in relations to my dd experience. And some think my first question may have happened many moons ago. But to be honest I think some of my above points not all together but some in isolation applies to other uni. I started this thread about Oxbridge applicants are they discriminated to now asking whole bunch of other stuff??? As my daughter has been banging on about correlation does not equal causation.

Basically, you're accusing University Admissions staff, both academic & administrators, of being less than ethical?

Nice.

I suspect you're trying to blame your disappointment on someone else ...

We don't see where else the applicants have applied to, although my field, I can make a pretty good guess. Also, the applicants who have their UCAS stuff in early are more likely than not to be applying to Oxbridge.

Does it bother me? No. Do I even notice? No. I have far more important things to do, than worry about where else the candidate in front of me might want to go.

Warwick as insurance? That's a good result in itself.

Actually, I do think some universities reject good students who apply in October and then make offers to others who apply just before the January deadline, who do not appear as strong. Sometimes strong candidates are rejected before they know whether they have an interview at Oxbridge or not. When they do get an interview at Oxbridge, but are not successful, their choices become limited, especially if the other "realistic" choices have made the same decision to reject. I know of this happening a lot in English so the candidate only has their "insurance" choice available. These are AAAA AS people with a strong of string GCSE's at A*. Some take a Gap year and apply again. Their insurance choices are not Warwick though!

As for Durham and Bristol, my DD had offers from both of them and Oxford, but that was for MFL.

Why would top uni requiring top grades reject good solid academic applicants Vs applicants with mediocre grades and that require resits, and those that have irrelevant subject combos?

People have already answered this question: (i) universities look at the whole application and (ii) people on TSR tell lies. (I know for sure in some cases since people on TSR are claiming to have offers that don't exist.)

Universities want the best applicants. These are not necessarily those with the highest grades (contextualised offers, different subject choices, difference experiences) but they usually are. Right now you don't seem to have firm evidence that the university course is actually offering to lesser qualified candidates than your daughter.