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Higher education

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Do some top ranking universities discriminate (not give offers) because they are oxbridge applicants

121 replies

fairycakes333 · 25/02/2015 11:17

OK I know what I am saying will be highly controversial and debatable. It really has only come about got us thinking. My dd applied to Oxford declared her module UMS on her application this itself I assume would give a inkling to other universities she applied to that's she is Oxbridge applicant. She was rejected post interview. One of the other top uni she applied to who requires AAA subsequently also rejected her. She achieved all A's in all the modules with high UMS average. She took the rejection quite well was gutted but got over it as she felt the course is competive (not medicine by the way) anyways and there would be many applicants with her type of grades. However she has subsequently found out on student rooms that quite a few applicants have received offers with a lot lower AS grades as her and GCSE to this particular university and have applied after October 15th. Obviously she's a bit peeved but makes us wonder whether some of these top flight uni are marketing themselves as only wanting top students but in reality are only wanting those applicants that have a higher percentage of firming them, as I would expect that say someone who has achieved AACC would firm AAA as it would be their highest offer. Universities that are offering courses with high grades I'm assuming again would never be a Insurance so top uni would have to be quite sure who they choose to offer places and that they will firm them only makes sense, its as though they don't want to take the risk of giving too many offers to top students as many will have applied to other uni with similar oxbrigde entry requirements. My dd has already got a offer from RG uni AAA requirement she loves and is probably going to firm them although she is still waiting on another uni with A*AA requirement. So my question is do some of these top uni play a game of hyping themselves up as being super selective to boost their reputation. My dd wasn't the only good academic applicant who got rejected from this uni there has been quite a few on TSR same course. I don't want to say which uni don't want to out my dd but its a top 7 uni.

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fairycakes333 · 26/02/2015 13:50

pirate so if chimney told you to jump off a cliff you would thenWink only kidding don't take offence

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UptheChimney · 26/02/2015 13:54

fairycakes you started a thread with the quite aggressive statement that academics were unethically discriminating against your DD. Why are you so personally rude about those who have been explaining to you why you are most probably wrong?

PiratePanda · 26/02/2015 14:04

Hilarious; I don't think anyone's said that to me since children at primary school.

uilen · 26/02/2015 14:08

Speculating, but Cambridge may be more interested in candidates who are likely to contribute to College life, whilst Imperial may be more focussed on straight academic potential.

Another academic already replied to this but no, no, no. Potential contributions to college life will not get somebody a place if they are weaker academically. Places are awarded on the basis of academics, full stop.

fairycakes333 · 26/02/2015 14:08

Think u need to read it through again properly without putting in your own tone and perception and making it sound and appear it has the intensity as you say it does. If I had your sensitivity I could say you sound arrogant and you think you know it all. What you say is god spell no one can question it because you don't like it, because you hold the job you do we are not allowed to have a differing opinion. I don't need to win a argument like you do. I'm just an average person trying to understand something I don't find easy to understand and needs things explained more simplistically.

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fairycakes333 · 26/02/2015 14:14

Above post for chimney sorry forgot say

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Needmoresleep · 26/02/2015 14:50

Sorry!

Out of interest though, are there rough quotas for EU or non-EU? And by academics I assume you mean a broader intelligence and curiousity, not just grades.

My observation, based on a very small sample, has been that some of the more one-dimentional students, who perhaps arrived in the UK for sixth form, end up at Imperial not Oxbridge. However this may be a preference for London and its large and cosmopolitan population.

Bonsoir · 26/02/2015 15:00

Needmoresleep - as far as I understand it, international students (non-EU) are one group and home students (EU) another from a quota/fees perspective.

PiratePanda · 26/02/2015 15:00

The are officially no quotas for students getting AAB and above anymore - though medicine is, in fact, an exception because the numbers are set by the GMC. In practice, in my department for example, you may simply not be able to squeeze any more than a certain number into your rooms, and so that leads to an effective quota. And university senior management may also impose quotas on departments; nothing we can do about those.

titchy · 26/02/2015 15:09

There are no quotas full stop. There are however a limited number of applicants and everyone wants them.

London will always be more attractive to overseas students than Birmingham or Salford....

Fairycakes your post of 14.08 was unnecessary. Upthechimney and others have taken the time to explain why your accusatory OP was misinformed. It's actually quite depressing to hear that others think all in your profession are effectively cheating scumbags who do't know what they're doing, despite 30 years of experience, and when attempts to explain why we don't just take the top 100 GPAs are met with a sarcastic 'But i guess u will anyways cos im thick and ignorant you are far superior and have a higher order of thinking for me to understand.' you kinda wonder why you bother.

fairycakes333 · 26/02/2015 15:39

titchy the thread starts with a DO Oxbridge app discr....I didn't say they did. I explained the process we went through it was a thought in my head?? I was wondering being enquisitive to a system im unfamiliar with, but was rather odd to me needed some clarification, but up the chimpney shot me down. Saying I way accusing him/her of un ethical practices. Well if uni tutor is wanting to have certain types of student well that's his choice and his decision if he feels a lesser graded student would be better suit that's fine as like you said earlier its like applying for a job find the right person. If certain uni don't like Oxbridge students that's fine as well admission is allowed to choose I've been assured this don't happen so be it. I asked do uni hype their grades up to better there reputation. Please tell me why are my question so bad as i feel that certain admission people want to some what gag and shut me up by backing me in a corner implying I'm some sore loser so my points seem stupid and insignificant. Like I say I have learnt loads, pirate please don't take offence I was really joking tounge and cheek. Chimney I'm sure you are brilliant at your job I wasn't attacking you personally why did you take my original post so seriously to the point you think it was specifically to u. I was talking about a certain uni rank 7 in certain tables and not all of them as u think I was.

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titchy · 26/02/2015 15:44

Fairy cakes NOTHING at all wrong with asking questions to learn something, and the questions you asked were perfectly valid.

The tone though was accusatory, and your responses sarcastic sometimes. That's what gets people's backs up, especially when they're trying to help by explaining...

Coconutty · 26/02/2015 15:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Needmoresleep · 26/02/2015 16:05

Fairycakes, its understood that you may not have been familiar with the system, but your DD should have made sure she was.

There is loads of information out there, including on Student Room, albeit with a pinch of salt.

Small sample again, but I think people can sometimes be surprised at how competitive top Universities are. The English, as you no doubt know, are odd. Its not done to say your child is bright or special - unless you are on MN where obvioously every child is brilliant. Nor is it done to be seen to make too much effort. In central London it took me ages to realise that some of the kids being touted by their parents as absolutely brilliant, musical, artistic and sporty were rather pedestrian, though often very coached and tutored. I think it has taken even longer for some of the non-dom parents used to different systems where marks, class-rankings etc all count, to realise that their children are not necessarily brighter or better, and that tutoring only compensates so much for lack of natural talent. The girls with the best GCSE results at DDs school were NOT the ones whose parents thought they should be top of the form in Y7, indeed were often the ones whose parents made no special claims at all. Your DD sounds as if she is extremely bright, but it will be difficult to know how bright others were competing for the same places.

Your daughter seems to have got three good offers and two rejections. DS got 2 offers and three rejections. Both will be fine, they can only attend one University. The system here means that people don't get as worked up about rankings as they might elsewhere. Yes there is a bit of Oxbridge or bust, but for many subjects there are other departments who have a competitive offer. Lots of things in England are a bit fuzzy and not too clear, so relatively easy to find things to complain about. However HE, NHS and lots of other things work reasonably well and indeed often better than elsewhere. Relax.

fairycakes333 · 26/02/2015 16:05

titchywhen I posted he/she came up with the automatic assumption I was looking for someone to blame, I have really only being sarcastic to chimpney the post was to him/her as he wasn't exactly nice to me. But I don't recall being particularly rude to anyone else apart from pirate who I have explained I'm being jokey not serious at all. But it does seem that if I comment about something especially with chimney and it was a post to him/her some of the other admission will come and shoot me down asap like my sarcasm was aimed at you but I get pecked and begged all the same. Can we just agree to disagree

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fairycakes333 · 26/02/2015 16:06

Oops meant to say negged

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UptheChimney · 26/02/2015 16:08

If certain uni don't like Oxbridge students that's fine

But all the academics on this thread have told you that in our individual & collective experience this is not so!

fairycakes333 · 26/02/2015 16:08

Needmore

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UptheChimney · 26/02/2015 16:12

Both will be fine, they can only attend one University

Best bit of advice on this thread! Thanks -- it's what I tend to say to friends outside academia with children going through all this. If your child goes into the process carefully & thoughtfully, then wherever they end up will give them what they need.

We tend to end up where we need to be, but generally rarely by the route we thought we'd take.

It's what I have to tell my students sometimes when they don't get an (oversubscribed) module -- they'll learn what they need to in whichever module or seminar they are assigned to.

fairycakes333 · 26/02/2015 16:16

Sorry pressed wrong button needmoresleep dd only came to UK 2 years ago so it was a superfast learning curve. Didn't really have time to do as much research as we would have liked. As we were concentrating on her getting her up to speed with what was required to keep up with new education system.
up after I made the above comment u mention and my next response sentence was I have been this don't happen or words to that effect so basically what I'm saying I am satisfied convinced its not happening???? What have I said wrong now??

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Needmoresleep · 26/02/2015 16:32

Fairycakes........quit whilst you are ahead!

Never wise to take on chimney!

I hope also my earlier post did not sound off. DC have been raised in a bit of a cultural melting pot. They have probably gained from some of the high aspirations and expectations of some of their peers. Yet have appreciated the slightly "muddle-through" approach at home. But honestly your DD has some good offers. She should now concentrate on meeting them. If she is really really determined to try again for Oxford she can think about in August when she has her results. The important thing now though is to realise that University will be what she makes it. At any good University there will be a lot more than the set contact hours. Up to her to read and research, discuss with friends, get to know her tutors and be advised by them and so on. This as I understand it can be in real contrast to Universities elsewhere which may have a lot of set teaching time, or large catle market type lectures. Hopefully though she emerges with good independence and capability as well as a first rate education.

Molio · 26/02/2015 16:39

Needmore DS did apply to Imperial but with reservations based solely on the grounds of it not doing arts and humanities - he thought that might be limiting socially, purely to mix with scientists. Maybe that's the other side of the coin, not sure.

Needmoresleep · 26/02/2015 16:47

Molio, surely one of your children can be tempted into the big wicked capital, or are they all wedded to a family Oxford tradition?!

fairycakes333 · 26/02/2015 16:51

upI'm convinced your a man! Smile can we just agree to disagree and not pick holes in what I say, my hubby says I got this illness, foot in mouth disease don't sound good but I guess maybe I got it todayBlush

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MagratGarlik · 26/02/2015 16:56

Imperial - limiting socially???? Seriously? No. You're in the centre of London (unless you end up at the arse end of the earth "campus" down in Kent) and we didn't limit ourselves only to the Imperial bars (Imperial alumnus here).