A warning to anyone applying to St Andrews

[MissPiggy5]

Can I please just warn any of you that have offspring with applications in to St Andrew's of the ridiculous situation and bun fight that happens in February of the 1st year, to find accommodation for the 2nd and subsequent years?

We have just had a horrendous time with our gorgeous DS, who got into St Andrews as his insurance choice after very narrowly missing out (0.5% in one paper FGS) on a place at Cambridge. Please let this tale of woe be of guidance to all those out there who are deciding on any offers received and how to 'play' the Firm v Insurance choice lottery.

First of all, being English doesn't help - no real surprise there. DS received his A level results mid Aug alongside everyone else, but a month after the Scottish students receive their Highers results. Net result: he was allocated his 'guaranteed' accommodation on a take it or leave it basis. This was not the mid-range but still expensive halls he had applied for, but the absolute top of the range catered, en-suite flat that is let out to golfers over the summer. We had no choice but to accept with Uni start on 6 Sep, just over 2 weeks after A level results so are now paying £7500 for 2 semesters - 1 Sep 14 - 30 May 15, which is actually £1000/month.

Being of middle income, so getting no help with anything, we asked DS if he could possibly find somewhere cheaper to live next year as paying this amount is not sustainable for us.

Next comes the horrendous 'releasing of lists' by local estate agents on 1 Feb to coincide with the 7 days that re-application for halls is open to current residents. What a nightmare. Our poor, unprepared DS spent the best part of a week both day and night chasing his tail. In brief, the vast majority of the university's students are from wealthy backgrounds and they actively recruit from such places as California; this obviously drives the local economy especially regarding private housing. Maybe its the Kate and Wills effect, who knows? The estate agents are shameless and seem to be running a cartel. There were queues round the block to book viewings with literally hundreds of students applying for each available house/flat. Most require multiple references and interviews to even get a viewing and then, even if they're luck enough to be successful, large deposits are being demanded to secure the property. Not only that, there are no properties available at all anywhere in the area from 30 May due to the golf so students don't even have the option of staying locally and getting some summer work.

The situation got so bad this month that there was a demonstration yesterday to demand that the University and local council take action. There's also a petition which will be sent to the Principal and Vice Chancellor at link. Even if you don't sign it, please read the comments left by students and parents alike; it makes for very worrying reading.

www.change.org/p/professor-louise-richardson-accomodation-and-business-services-tell-us-how-the-university-plans-to-address-the-potential-accommodation-crisis

The situation for us now is that DS has re-applied to go back into halls, self-catered this time to save a little money, but the bill is still going to be £6200/year, which is much higher than the rest of the UK but still cheaper than private rental. There is absolutely no guarantee he'll get in, and if he doesn't I have absolutely no idea what we'll do.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I really wish I knew all this a year ago as I would now be having a very different conversation with DS about his options once his offers came in.

A rather distraught and angry Mum.

Cambridge. I doubt that's cheap

DS at Cambridge, it is cheap, or certainly far less expensive than most other places seem to be (at least the others that DS was considering) - the one exception presumably being Oxford which may well be on a par. College accommodation low cost and of course shorter terms, and available for full duration of degree - you only pay when you stay; food massively subsidised, on site printing free, multiple libraries so no real need (yet) to buy any books, no daily travel costs beyond walking a few hundred yards across the road for lectures / libraries. Most importantly free on site parking at the weekend for parents in a very central college location, so ideal for a bit of shopping too

I do feel quite a bit of sympathy for the OP's DC - of interest OP, and genuinely not intended to rub salt into wounds, did your DC request a remark?

boys3 even if the half of a per cent was after a remark, it's still only a sneeze. To get an offer is a measureable distance from getting an interview, so I can completely and utterly sympathise with any parent being gutted on their DC's behalf. OP wasn't even making a deal of it, it was mentioned in passing. I'm not sure why Sunbury mentioned it even, it was a little bit sour.

molio, I completely agree with you on this, and its not as if Cambridge (maths excepted) over offer either.

Thank you boys3, I'm flattered :)

Although I do sympathise with you, many of the problems you mention are the same for every university. The accommodation my son was allocated was £50 a week dearer than the 5 he listed in his choices. He gets the minimum loan which comes to £86 a week, which nowhere near covers his accommodation which is £144 a week. Luckily we can just about cover the extra cost (no holidays etc), but some families cant.
Although I would not recommend choosing a uni based on cost alone, I do think its worth looking at minimum & maximum accommodation costs and what bursaries etc. are available.

The idea of not going to a Scottish university if you want to because you have to pay and Scots don't is just silly.

Agree Hakluyt. The four years rather than three would be a factor as well as the evidently very high cost of living at St A, but not the fact that Scots and EU citizens don't pay.

Thank-you Molio. Yes we had all his papers re-marked (yes, we were desperate) but basically he was screwed by a particularly nasty German essay question. We've since found out from his tutor that many others fell at the same hurdle so had to take it on the chin and move on. So, while I've always said I'm not expecting any sympathy for not doing enough research on accomm costs, I just want to raise awareness of the issue as I know St Andrews is a popular insurance choice for Oxbridge candidates.

I'm still not exactly sure what the problem is? One of the things you research before deciding on a university place is surely accommodation costs? Are you saying that the costs at St Andrews came as a surprise to you? It was certainly a hot topic on the student forums when dd was looking.

Can the English not start as second years and so do a 3 yr degree?
I thought the first year was a foundation year....so even Scottish educated children can skip it if they get enough Highers and Advance Highers....they can (could?) start a degree at 17 with just Highers...
(In S4 (at 15-16) they do Nationals - if they get a National 5 then in S5 they can do that subject as a Higher and in S6 an Advanced Higher (or more highers...so if they only get Nat 4 in S4 (maybe cos they only started a subject that year) then its Nat 5 in S5 and Higher in S6)

No, you can't skip the first year- it's not exactly a foundation year. It can be an opportunity to try out subjects you might not have thought about doing.

Yes, you can skip the first year in some Scottish universities. Dundee for example makes offers to English students who will start the course at level 2. As far as I'm aware this isn't something st Andrews does though. Don't some Scottish universities also charge English students for only three years even if they take a four year course?

Hak apparently you still can - just double checked -for science based subjects (and some art & design)
www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/about-degrees/three-five-year
(I know Scottish people who had but like I said it was years ago now -and in science based subjects - as a mature student I did my 3 yr BSc (Hons) in England and my PhD at a Scottish Uni. I'm sure (talking to someone who looked after undergraduates) there was also something about starting 1st yr and leaving after 3 yrs and you got a BSc but not a BSc Hons ????)

Cross post Milky ... and that was Edinburgh I linked to ..

Loans not being large enough to even cover accommodation costs is a huge issue in tertiary education.

You see on MN all the time, posters saying they have no intention of helping their DC. That they will survive on the loan and get a job.

It's getting unrealistic for many students and curtailing their choices.

Yes agree wordfactory. All this its something you can plan for!!!!!! It is if you have the spare cash but if you don't? £200 a week for most families even on good salaries is just not possible

We give our student DC £200 a month + once a week evening meal (she comes home once a week) (+ vitamins and dinner leftovers and ocassional food that needs to be used up!)

Three points:

1. boys3, I wonder whether Cambridge have changed their approach in recent years. They seem to be giving increasingly numbers of AAA offers. Tough in humanities where it is more than possible to drop a couple of marks if you get the wrong question. We know another boy who narrowly failed to make his offer, a day's illness and a one poor paper. (Learning from this was that anyone with a difficult offer and an off day needs to get their Head to write to the college with appropriate evidence straightaway and not wait till results come out - however pushy that sounds.)

1. I agree with Wordfactory. Developers are proposing yet another block of private student accomodation near me. They are making a big thing about the social value, helping students who would otherwise be living in grotty flats etc. Drill down a bit and this is not true at all. This will essentially be expensive accomodation for rich foreign students. 52 week a year contracts, and very high rates. If these were expensive central London flats developers would be forced to provide a proportion of affordable accomodation as well. Some boroughs require a proportion of "affordable" accomodation within such developments, but not mine. So "student" accomodation is more profitable and step by step higher education in London becomes the preserve of affluent overseas students rather than ordinary "home" students. On my soap box, but this is an issue I hope Boris is addressing.

1. Scotland appears to be heading for devolution by default. It appears that they are happy to take money from richer English students, but are not really making provision for more ordinary English students. They should at least ring-fence some of the more affordable accomodation for those who get their results later. Without that element of diversity Scottish students will be picking up a rather odd idea of the English.

needsmoresleep yes indeed.

There is little point putting in lots of effort to widen access if students from less than wealthy families can't afford to live at university.

My DDs experience in London is that her flatmates who were from families without the income to provide any support, and who qualified for the maintenance grant, actually managed to live quite well, living in normally priced typical student flats (around £650 per month). Their income was supplemented by bursaries (a grant of money) and scholarships (reduced tuition fees) from the university, which they were entitled to by virtue of being on a maintenance grant. They also took on casual work when they had the time, promotional work for consumer firms on campus and stations, bar and cafe work etc. I am sure that students can find out about the reality of that from the student room etc. but if a student is genuinely from a disadvantaged background there is support.

I think the problems really arise in the famous "squeezed middle" where the parental income is not low enough to qualify for a maintenance grant and any associated bursaries, but they are not able, or indeed willing, to support their DCs. Then students are going to need to work to an extent that may well affect their ability to keep up with the workload on their degrees, my DDs ability to work even in holidays has been severely curtailed by the workload (and deadlines) for her studies and she certainly would not have achieved as well as she has if we had not been willing and able to support her.

However, whatever the problems elsewhere, I am just appalled that St Andrews have allowed a situation to develop where first year students are being put through the trauma and time consuming process described to get accommodation, it does not even sound like a problem you can throw money at, they are queaing for hours just to get to see flats. These are 18 year olds adjusting to a new adult life, and the university have a duty to support them in that. I do hope that it is getting further publicity and St Andrews come to appreciate that failing to offer a student experience that matches other universities will lose them bright applicants (monied does not of course correlate with being bright as evidenced by some of their past admittedly influential cohort )

The very fact of the four year course is going to deter less well off English students Needmoresleep.

It's not just the fault of the university. The planning issues, community council etc all come into it too. There's been a long, bitter battle to get a site agreed for a new Madras College (the old buildings are falling down). Never mind the 18-year-olds, local high-school children are being let down too.

This accommodation problem is nothing new. It was the same when I arrived there in 1993. It's a mediaeval walled city miles from anywhere and accommodation costs are sky high.

Your post reads as though it's all about those ghastly furriners from California taking your sons accommodation.

I would also like to point out that many scottish students may not be offered places in English universities because they have taken highers rather than A levels, therefore they have no choice but to attend a scottish university. At least thats what it was like in my day. Perhaps things have changed recently and I am showing my age. Discrimination in its many guises affects students from both countries.

English Universities accept Advanced Highers as being equivalent to A levels.