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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

A warning to anyone applying to St Andrews

139 replies

MissPiggy5 · 21/02/2015 16:37

Can I please just warn any of you that have offspring with applications in to St Andrew's of the ridiculous situation and bun fight that happens in February of the 1st year, to find accommodation for the 2nd and subsequent years?

We have just had a horrendous time with our gorgeous DS, who got into St Andrews as his insurance choice after very narrowly missing out (0.5% in one paper FGS) on a place at Cambridge. Please let this tale of woe be of guidance to all those out there who are deciding on any offers received and how to 'play' the Firm v Insurance choice lottery.

First of all, being English doesn't help - no real surprise there. DS received his A level results mid Aug alongside everyone else, but a month after the Scottish students receive their Highers results. Net result: he was allocated his 'guaranteed' accommodation on a take it or leave it basis. This was not the mid-range but still expensive halls he had applied for, but the absolute top of the range catered, en-suite flat that is let out to golfers over the summer. We had no choice but to accept with Uni start on 6 Sep, just over 2 weeks after A level results so are now paying £7500 for 2 semesters - 1 Sep 14 - 30 May 15, which is actually £1000/month.

Being of middle income, so getting no help with anything, we asked DS if he could possibly find somewhere cheaper to live next year as paying this amount is not sustainable for us.

Next comes the horrendous 'releasing of lists' by local estate agents on 1 Feb to coincide with the 7 days that re-application for halls is open to current residents. What a nightmare. Our poor, unprepared DS spent the best part of a week both day and night chasing his tail. In brief, the vast majority of the university's students are from wealthy backgrounds and they actively recruit from such places as California; this obviously drives the local economy especially regarding private housing. Maybe its the Kate and Wills effect, who knows? The estate agents are shameless and seem to be running a cartel. There were queues round the block to book viewings with literally hundreds of students applying for each available house/flat. Most require multiple references and interviews to even get a viewing and then, even if they're luck enough to be successful, large deposits are being demanded to secure the property. Not only that, there are no properties available at all anywhere in the area from 30 May due to the golf so students don't even have the option of staying locally and getting some summer work.

The situation got so bad this month that there was a demonstration yesterday to demand that the University and local council take action. There's also a petition which will be sent to the Principal and Vice Chancellor at link. Even if you don't sign it, please read the comments left by students and parents alike; it makes for very worrying reading.

www.change.org/p/professor-louise-richardson-accomodation-and-business-services-tell-us-how-the-university-plans-to-address-the-potential-accommodation-crisis

The situation for us now is that DS has re-applied to go back into halls, self-catered this time to save a little money, but the bill is still going to be £6200/year, which is much higher than the rest of the UK but still cheaper than private rental. There is absolutely no guarantee he'll get in, and if he doesn't I have absolutely no idea what we'll do.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I really wish I knew all this a year ago as I would now be having a very different conversation with DS about his options once his offers came in.

A rather distraught and angry Mum.

OP posts:
chocoluvva · 22/02/2015 15:29

Yes - I have an MA from a Scottish uni but I wouldn't tell anyone I had a masters - only if I'd done another year to get an M. Litt, MMus or whatever.

Fadingmemory · 22/02/2015 15:47

(Not an ad as the room is not currently free) I let out a room in Edinburgh. Large room, ensuite shower. The house has a large kitchen with WM, FF, DW, micro. Quiet street, 20 minutes walk to the city centre, 5 minutes from bus stop, supermarket and huge variety of other shops. 350 a month inclusive of all bills. 4 universities in town, one of which is RG. Last time I advertised it (on Gumtree) I could have let it 20 times over.

Not good for anyone who wants a young household and much partying. There are obv others similar. Waves to Cashewnutty

unlucky83 · 22/02/2015 15:52

I would also suggest looking at Dundee - much cheaper...or even out lying villages (Leuchars, Guardbridge, Strathkiness, Newport, Gauldry, Wormit,Tayport)...
You can buy a one bed flat in Guardbridge (10 min if that drive and on bus route to St A) for around £85-90k - or one of the new one beds in St Andrews for between £125-£199k....
And it might be worth trying to buy rather than rent if you have to pay that much ... something to think about !!!
To buy look in TSPC (Tayside solicitors property centre) or Fife Solicitors property centre (All house sales in Scotland are done through solicitors not estate agents)
And also ask around, newsagents windows etc...

noddyholder · 22/02/2015 15:59

The houses are basic and they squeeze so many in they get about 2.5 k a month for a shoddy house! I think they could just charge them term times. They are still making a fortune and nothing ever bloody works! The admin fee is ridiculous and their deposit was withheld as he said the grass wasn't maintained to his liking. I agree its the rental sector in general most landlords are getting away with murder

noddyholder · 22/02/2015 16:00

They have August free but tbh they get so much for these houses they could definitely afford to do something about that.

Moominmammacat · 22/02/2015 16:24

I so hated the idea of grotty flats/admin fees/unpleasant landlords that I have bought houses for all three of my DSs ... no, I'm not rich, but the rent has always covered the mortgage, I know they have been safe and their friends have not been exploited. And we have had something to sell after uni.

MissPiggy5 · 22/02/2015 16:31

We did think about buying, for all of 10 mins until we realised our minimalist budget wouldn't but anything more than a damp cupboard ??

OP posts:
PrimalLass · 22/02/2015 16:47

There's a couple of ex-council houses for sale for under 200k at the mo. Problem is there are really strict HMO laws.

unlucky83 · 22/02/2015 16:52

Miss did you look outside st Andrews?
Really lots of reasonable 1 beds flats/bungalows at the £80-90k level ...you can get 3 beds for £150k (Dundee is even cheaper) ...and as others have said most people who work at St Andrews Uni don't live in St Andrews...(and Dundee has 2 unis so has a fantastic nightlife, more choice for shopping etc)

MissPiggy5 · 22/02/2015 17:12

I'll have look now!

OP posts:
Sunbury1986 · 22/02/2015 17:14

I get all the arguments on this. DD in London at uni, only applied to London Unis so we knew in advance of at least a year that it would be costly. She qualifies for bare minimum loan, we aren't loaded by any stretch of the imagination after years of school fees. For us we just accepted for 3 years it will mean continuing to support her. To her credit she is already in the process of looking for cheaper shared for year 2, her halls are gorgeous but ridiculously expensive, however she has had time to adjust being away and in a safe haven and relative luxury for one year. There are a big group of friends now looking realistically at moving further out from the current 5 minute walk to uni. She has a part time job so earns around £50 per week as her course keeps her busy. She gets ££ off grandparents per month, not huge amount but enough to make food buying less of a worry. We pay Accomodation currently £200 per week on a 51 week contract. The good news is she is highly likely to walk into a job as she is training to be something. Don't want to out myself. She won't earn a fortune but she is as I say likely to get a job in chosen field. What job is OP son hoping to get? I think you can swallow the expense if there is a potential for some decent earning in the future .Reality is uni is costly and rather like Christmas it is something you can plan for. My view is she is in a superb city which she loves, she has built a nice circle of friends who are all like minded, she's had a year to mature in a relatively safe and nice space, if she has to suffer a bit of grotty living for a bit it won't kill her. The uni is fab, superb facilities, she can spend more time there. Perhaps OP has done lots of people a massive favour here. Too many parents seem to get so hooked on the importance of the quality of the uni during year 12 and 13 etc they don't investigate the reality of renting in a sought after area. Do sympathise to a degree, no pun intended, but uni is costly.hope OP DS gets something sorted .

unlucky83 · 22/02/2015 17:35

There are some really dodgy areas in Dundee though ...
West end (student bit is ok though)...lots of old tenement flats that seem reasonable enough and accommodation targeted to students...but other areas are fine too ...
(Have a look at street view and it will give you a good idea...Wink)
Avoid the big schemes (council estates) in the outskirts...

Lyndie · 22/02/2015 17:41

St Andrews graduates do well though. Perhaps see it as an investment?

Sunbury1986 · 22/02/2015 18:00

I agree with lyndie...if the degree is going to reap dividends longer term, as we see our situation, it's worth a little hardship for a short time? And realistically a little hardship is to hardship, ok so might have to think about money a little more than normal but we aren't suffering just doing what most do. what does DS want to do once he has his degree OP? That might give you bit of a sense of investment. All so not too keen on the Will and Kate bashing. I'm no royalist but St Andrews has long had a notoriety for attracting certain types of students. Newcastle, Northumbria and Durham are also full of southerners.

Molio · 22/02/2015 18:00

St A grads don't do markedly better as a group than many others in much cheaper places though Lyndie, so the 'investment' aspect doesn't really hold up. I'd be very concerned about the social aspect too, if it were my DC. It's ok living a bit out if there's a group sharing, but lonely on someone's own. Could he find a group who might all be keen to live a few miles out OP? I think that's the way I'd go.

MissPiggy5 · 22/02/2015 18:03

Yes we have no doubt that we're investing in DS's future, its just that this has to be within our budget, we don't have a bottomless pit, therefore Dundee or elsewhere may beckon. He doesn't know what he wants to do yet but I think he'll stay in academia.

OP posts:
DontGotoRoehampton · 22/02/2015 18:12

MissPiggy - completely sympathise. DC applying next year to Uni and we have said NoNo to Scottish unis, since the Scots & EU pay no fees, but English do Hmm. DC will go to a UK, European or US university - plenty of excellent courses in other places. Scotland - no.

Molio · 22/02/2015 19:45

That's the point OP. It's all very well rationalizing expense on the grounds of 'investment', but only the very well off can afford that. There are others out there whose eyes water at even the thought of those rents, let alone the suggestion of buying a property.

Molio · 22/02/2015 19:48

I'm a bit puzzled as to why the English think they shouldn't pay fees at a Scottish uni. It's their uni, not ours. Scottish students have to pay fees at English unis, so fair dos.

MissPiggy5 · 22/02/2015 19:54

Oooooh! It's not fair do's - English students pay full fees everywhere!!!!

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 22/02/2015 19:59

"
Oooooh! It's not fair do's - English students pay full fees everywhere!!!!"

Of course it's fair dos, we voted for tuition fees!

Sunbury1986 · 22/02/2015 20:12

Sorry OP I was reasonably with you even though the fact you hadn't invested time in looking at accommodation for the duration of the course. It's all well and good " leaving DS to own devices" if you've furnished him with a bank account over the years to cover the costs. If you have ever paid school fees, and we have for 17 years x 3, then you will understand how annoying parents are who find the shock of paying said fees annoys them. Scotland has its rules. We , or someone, agreed to vote English rules in. I note from the OP you were annoyed he didn't make Cambridge. I doubt that's cheap, St. Andrews is fab but if it's not for DS have you considered a swap to Exeter?

Molio · 22/02/2015 21:22

OP it really isn't unfair - your DS had free reign to choose any uni anywhere and for the overwhelming majority of the unis in the UK he'd have had to pay fees. The fact that Scottish students don't is beside the point. If he thinks St A provides the sort of course at the right sort of academic level for him with the right sort of prospects, then why should he not pay fees just because mum and/ or dad live over the border?

Sunbury why do you think Cambridge wouldn't be cheap? Student rents aren't synchronised with academic prestige. Also, what do you mean by a swap with Exeter? Do they have an arrangement? (genuine question).

LauraAshleyDuvetCover · 22/02/2015 21:23

The reason it seems unfair is that other EU students don't pay - so French, or Bulgarian, or German or Swedish students don't pay tuition fees in Scotland. Only English and Welsh (lots of NI people have an ROI passport so use that to apply!).

Molio · 22/02/2015 21:30

Also Sunbury, if a DC misses out on a Cambridge offer by half a per cent on a single paper, then what parent wouldn't be 'annoyed'. Most would be absolutely gutted, vicariously. That's a ridiculously small amount, equating to a sneeze or two in a single paper. And then to be screwed over by crazy rents at St A. So I for one have huge sympathy for the OP. Not on the general fees front, but on everything else - her DS has had a rotten deal, I just hope he gets halls.