Still waiting to hear from Durham

[ryansbeat]

Would anyone like to join me in the wait to hear from Durham....feeling so stressed on DDs behalf as she is convinced that she won't get an offer (having been rejected by Oxford). I think that if she doesn't get an offer there she's going to take a year out and reapply....she says she'll be more upset to get rejected by Durham than Oxford. Just wish they would make a decision either way so she can plan ahead. Anyone else waiting to hear....why do they take so long?

Will do!

Northofwatford I went to Durham as well (and DH) so I know it will suit DS.

Kitties DS is clever, quite quiet and a very nice boy! We aren't posh at all. Reassure your DS that there will be a mix of people and that he'll find lots that he gets along with.

My DS has a Durham offer and is certainly not posh- he is also rather unassuming and down to Earth. I think Durham is like any uni and will have a wide mix of people.
Ds currently undecided between Durham and Birmingham though- it's all about the course content. He refused to consider Oxbridge...

northofwatford I'm another person who went to Durham for undergrad so really quite biased in its favour. I also declined a postgrad offer from Cambridge. But I don't see that the fact that the average grades for English freshers was higher at Durham than at Cambridge is either hugely relevant to whether or not decisions at Cambridge seem rational, or is of particular comfort, since grades are only one factor in identifying potential but far from the whole story. Frankly, I'd rather be at Cambridge with an A or two less than at Durham, however gorgeous Durham is (and it is properly gorgeous). Cambridge will probably open doors faster later on than Durham, on the whole, regardless of an extra at A2, and is arguably prettier and of course vastly more ancient (though that may not be attractive to some). Both are bloody freezing (I was in Durham the winter of '81/'82; I know). But what do you mean by 'frankly ludicrous'? I'm guessing that someone you or your DC thought a no hoper got an offer whereas someone id'd as a 'dead cert' missed out? That's an old story that one, but on the whole I reckon the collective wisdom of the Oxbridge interviewers gets it right, most of the time, particularly now I look back at my Durham peers and the overwhelmingly Oxbridge colleagues that I worked with.

Cambridge isn't crap and it doesn't make ludicrous decisions. Applying to anywhere is a subjective process and lots of very bright people will be rejected by Cambridge because of the high quality of people who apply - that doesn't mean that the people who are offered places are not exceptionally bright individuals.

webwiz I'm genuinely sorry for your DS. These poor kids are so young, despite being 'adults', or on the cusp of legal adulthood. But I remember so well the atmosphere in Durham in freshers' week with the whole Oxbridge thing being very present somehow. A minority could never quite let it go which was a massive mistake, because Durham is so spectacularly beautiful, and so highly respected on its own account, and such a good experience, that to make claims about how it's actually 'better' seems mistaken. So that's why I said piffle to the grades thing. I can't think that it sends a great message to the DC. Much better to just shrug shoulders surely, because the world outside will compare and Oxford and Cambridge will actually always come up trumps and there's no point arguing really - better just to accept and enjoy what Durham has to offer while you're there, which is ample.

Do you know I've been on mumsnet for many years and this is the first time anything anyone has said has really upset me so time to leave I think.

Cross post webwiz. I'm looking at it now with a parent's perspective, that's all. I guess you have to pursue whatever line you think will make them feel better, but nursing a grievance or asserting superiority must do more harm than good, surely? Very hard though, this whole thing.

Another cross post I think. Sorry.

I'm sorry, but it's rather silly to dismiss Oxbridge as crap just because your dc didn't get an offer. I don't think that encouraging dc to be bitter is a good way of teaching them to deal with disappointment.

Obviously, if schools are stupid enough to describe kids as a "dead cert", kids are bound to feel bad when it doesn't work out, but surely there are better ways of dealing with it than talking down the place where he originally wanted to go - it doesn't fool anyone, and actually, I think it probably makes it harder for the dc to deal with the rejection.

An old friend's sister studied in Durham. She was very, very happy there and she has done brilliantly since graduating, but I remember going to visit her before making my own university choices and I ruled Durham out because there were so many people with chips on their shoulders about Oxbridge. I thought it was a great city with loads of opportunities, but I felt like I didn't want to be around a bunch of people obsessed with the fact that they weren't somewhere else.

Oxford and Cambridge are great universities, but there are so many other fantastic institutions in the UK. There's just no need to pretend that Cambridge is rubbish, no need to make a big deal of it at all. Just move on, and focus on the exciting future that lies ahead!

It would be an U row to have Coconutty. The point is, parents shouldn't nurse a vicarious grudge on behalf of their DC because it can only make matters worse for the DC, never better. The people who enjoyed Durham most were those who let it go, who didn't try to assert that they should be elsewhere because their grades etc were better. Most parents would want their DC to enjoy the place for what it is and the comment made up thread just seemed to run counter to that.

Very sensible post Snapes. Parents need to help when the going gets tough and revving up the what didn't happen thing won't be conducive to a DC moving on and enjoying all the huge amount of stuff that Durham has to offer. I saw it several times over (though not for the most part) and even into adulthood some people couldn't let it go. I don't know how much of that was parent driven or self driven in individual cases but either way it wasn't healthy or calculated to make the person in question happy and satisfied, either in the short or the long term.

molio - my Ds chose not to apply to Oxbridge as he didn't like the courses on other there for his subject- he also has employment in his chosen field and after working with many graduates found that the ones who had studied at Cambridge were less practical, and able to function in a work environment. Therefore they were actually performing less well in terms of promotion/prospects etc. For you to say that Oxbridge graduates are the best and will succeed against all others is preposterous and very wrong. It is also rude and unhelpful to the majority of students.

Your comments are a generalisation as are mine and should not be asserted with such force to others on this thread.

It is very daft to those rejected by Oxbridge that they don't know what they're doing and it's horrid there anyway.

But equally it's just as daft to tell Dc that did get in that Oxbridge is infallible and that the students there are the 'top' students. Arrogant and incorrect.

I wax involved in admissions this year and you know what ? I'm just a human. A flawed human doing my best.

What was obvious to me was that lots of the applicants were worthy of a place but we simply didn't have enough places for them all.

Another reality is that many candidates we'd love to take a look at, never apply. I seem to spend half my life working on the widening access scheme.

As for Durham; well it has long cast off its rep as the place where Tim nice but dim from public school goes.

molio attended 35 years ago? 35? That's half a life time.

Back in ye olden days, Oxbridge would take as many bright public schoolers as it could lay its hands on. The widening access scheme was a twinkle in the eye of the Marxist arm of the academic body.

Those from the top public schools who didn't get in felt very sore and licked their wounds in Durham.

But everything has changed.

Oxbridge has changed. Durham has changed. The public schools have changed.

This is remarkably silly.

Waitingaround it's irrelevant whether or not your DC chose to apply to Oxbridge or not. No-one has to defend an application or a non application. Of course it's not everyone's cup of tea. But he fact is that vast swathes of students at Durham have applied and been disappointed and it's really important that that doesn't colour their experience of Durham in a negative way. I have not said that 'Oxbridge graduates are the best and will succeed against all others'. That's a ludicrous manipulation of what I said and so your complaints of preposterousness, wrongness, rudeness and unhelpfulness are rather ironic.

Equally to Word: no-one has asserted on this thread that Oxford and Cambridge admissions are 'infallible and that the students there are 'top'', therefore it's inappropriate to cast out an accusation of arrogance and ignorance. However it is blindingly obvious that on the whole they get it right. I'm not sure exactly what your involvement with admissions is since you've never explained (nor need to, obviously) but I think you've said that it's not as a paid up academic Oxbridge tutor and also that this year is your first time on a panel, so your experience is actually a bit different to the experienced tutors and is still in its infancy. Not that what you say isn't valid, but what I say isn't invalid either. My only comment, met with the usual over-reaction whenever one mentions Oxbridge, is that Cambridge opens certain doors - the doors aren't closed to others, that's clearly not what I meant, but Cambridge and Oxford degrees do have a particular value, for a reason, and so it's daft to get shirty and go into denial. In addition, I'm speaking from the perspective of a Durham graduate with a wide acquaintance of people in exactly this boat and the comment above by a parent about wrong decisions/ Cambridge crap can only make a disappointed applicant feel worse and prevent them moving on to enjoy what Durham has to offer. Whereas I don't believe you have any link to Durham at all?

I loved Durham but there's no doubt that a lot of my contemporaries should have let the Oxbridge thing go, because those who didn't enjoyed Durham less than they should. Is all. And parents can help or hinder that process. Is also all.

That's a cross post Word. I know a great deal about contemporary Durham and its current cohorts please do stop making assumptions. Very high handed and rude. Bloody irritating too. Also, not quite 35 years .

molio it's you who is being silly. And frankly mean spirited into the bargain.

You are obsessed with Oxford university.

You don't post about anything but education. And you're not even an educationalist.

If anyone ever says any other university is a contender you shout them down. If anyone dare say Cambridge is better than Oxford you have a fit.

Your DC have all attended Oxford. We get it. You're terribly proud. We get it.

But apart from being the mother of kids at Oxford what's your experience of attending? Or the teaching? Or the staff? Or the admissions?

I've worked there three years now. Yes part time. I'm first and always a writer and have interest in becoming a full time academic. But I'm there each week. Teaching. Meeting colleagues. Attending college discussions. And during this round I was asked to be involved in admissions. I've been asked and agreed to do it again next round.

I've also spent time in Durham university in the twenty first century.

Now sheesh. Open your eyes and see the big fat beautiful world out there beyond Oxford.

Oh right.

What's your involvement?

With Durham I mean.

Word you're ludicrous. And sounding faintly hysterical. Unlike you I've no intention of saying exactly what I do or don't do because why should I? I haven't mentioned either Oxford or my own DC and you've no business to introduce that at all, it's bang out of order. It's true I comment about the Oxford process and Durham and access and public exams and education etc because I know something about those things is all I would say. I'm not going to comment on stuff I know zilch about, that would be daft.

I absolutely challenge you to find a single post anywhere where I've ever so much as hinted that Oxford is better than Cambridge or that Oxbridge is the only place worth going or anything even smacking of that. You won't find a single post anywhere because one doesn't exist. An apology would therefore be cool. And please don't make assumptions about people's lives when you know nothing of them (you've done it before). My life extends well beyond Oxford I'm happy to say :) Whatever happened to manners?