Oxbridge - someone hand me a grip please

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Right I could NC for this but am being brave .. please be nice and help me get some perspective!

Normally I am very chilled and laid back and happy for DD to make her own choices (always been good ones as far as I know ;)) DH and I are on hand to offer advice but know she has to make her own decisions and that's what life is about.

Anyway she is wanting to apply for uni entry 2015 but she outright refuses to think of Oxbridge and it is making me frustrated. I know that nothing is guaranteed but she would stand as good a chance as any other applicant but seeems to have adopted DH's "inverted snobbery."

When I see threads like the Oxbridge one I am irrationally cross with DD because I think she should "give it a go" (the application) - however she just feels it will be full of privileged folk and no one down to earth.

At the end of the day it's her choice - but as a parent I feel like she is missing an opportunity - though can't put my finger on what.

Please help me deal with this stupidity (mine not hers!!)

I believe St Andrews and Bristol both have larger numbers of privately-educated students than Cambridge, at last count. I might be wrong. It is a crude measure, obviously.

As a PP said, she will have to really want to go there to get through the selection process and succeed. Not least because after getting in, they work you hard. Which is fine if she loves the place and the subject, but if not could be quite miserable.

(I admit, I can't remember why I think that, though, so will see if I can find stats. I would guess there are a fair few universities all with similar numbers, though.)

There are more people from 'ordinary' backgrounds at Oxford than those from so called 'priveleged'. Just look at the numbers from state schools versus independent/public schools.

But anyway, as someone who went to both Oxford and one of the new Universities, I can tell you that Oxford isn't all that.

With absolutely no basis if say you were probably right Opaque. Durham and Exeter were traditionally quite private schoolish

on the "they're full of privately educated " theme, this is the ST list

www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/University_Guide/ see student population section, not really much difference between Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrews, Durham, Bristol for lowest % of state educated students. That said state educated are the clear majority in all of them

That said state educated are the clear majority in all of them

Given how many of each there are, so they bloody well should be!

No time to RTFT but no no no no no no NO NO NO NO to St Andrews - my (Scottish) sister is there and has just hated it, the wealth is astonishing (think arriving in helicopters), and it's a real two horse town so no getting away from it. As pp said, why on earth does she think Will and Kate went there?

Would think similar of Bristol based on the people I know who went.

I went to Oxford and I think the education is really limited and stuffy. Tell her to look at places like Warwick. Encourage her firebrand tendencies!

quite so.

Back to the main point. Friend of DS1 lined up (by his school) for Oxbridge. He decided not for him on the basis of the course he wanted to study, what was actually covered and how it was taught. He is going, shock, horror, to a non RG uni even. However the course is rated, whatever one thinks of league tables, as one of the top two for that subject alongside Cambridge. He made an informed decision, not one based on prejudice (not sure if that is really the right word) or misconception. He has done what he considers best for him which is absolutely what it should be.

DS2 did that too, boys3 - his choice was rated in the top 3 at the time but has slipped every year since & his experience hasn't been brilliant, sadly.

OP won't she even go and have a look? As others have said lots of unis have a big proportion of public school pupils.

Dd1 went to Bristol and she found that full of very privileged students. She was quite inhibited during seminars at first but soon realised that a posh accent doesn't mean that person is talking any sense . She loves Bristol and doesn't think she'll ever leave the city now.

I point blank refused to consider Oxbridge. Didn't visit, didn't even look at the prospectus. Then 5 days before the deadline for applications my then boyfriend told me I should apply.... Which like the enthralled 17 year old I was, I duly did (causing everyone at school and home around me several days of abject panic trying to get statements all done in super quick time). It worked and I got in.

You could try that option?

Given that independent schools only educate 7% of the school population that is to be expected.

In terms of getting your feelings into perspective - I'd say just try and think about how much your DD will appreciate your having faith in her decision. Personally, I'd say her feeling supported by you is much more important than whether she goes to Oxbridge or not. I was adamant I didn't want to go to Oxbridge - or even try. At the time it was a really big deal as the school (a v good comprehensive) were always v proud whenever they got students to Oxbridge. I had to have meetings with my head of year etc but I felt v strongly it wasn't for me. In fact everyone telling me how prestigious it was really added to my distaste for the whole thing. I went to York and absolutely loved it. As an adult, I've had conversations with my parents and I now know they were disappointed at the time that I didn't even try but at the time they hid it really well. I am so glad they supported me and didn't add to the pressure being piled on me by the school.

I can understand your frustration if she is not even looking at the courses available in two good universities.

I think if I were you I would get the course details for the English and the History courses (certainly in Cambridge you can't do them jointly but have to do them sequentially as a PP said) for about twenty possible universities, put the text into a Word document, give them all the same font, check there are no identifying details, and challenge her to read them all and rank them in order. Not to insist that she sticks to that choice whatever happens, but to see what she really thinks when the name is removed.

I'd probably forget to keep a list of which was which, and would have to google key phrases to find out though...

(PS I never actually met anyone doing English at Cambridge who was enjoying it - Imo it's an assault course of a degree.

Conversely, the workload on the History course at Cambridge used to be almost exactly half that of the Oxford history course.)

I must admit, I know plenty of people who loved English at Cambridge.

Though probably not those who liked history.

Well I applied to Cambridge but was woefully underprepared for the interview and didn't get in. At the time I was utterly devastated. I went to one of the famous unis full of all the other Oxbridge rejects instead Once I'd realised that a posh accent and bags full of over confidence didn't actually make anyone any better than me, I had a fantastic time and got a great degree too. I made some amazing friends too.

Obviously Cambridge would have been a brilliant opportunity and opened more doors - but I've still had plenty of opportunities. I'm rambling but I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not the be all and end all.

Oh good Opaque

Maybe they just felt sorry for me not reading English and didn't want to make me feel bad...

Nah, more likely they were lying to me.

'Of course I love it! Reading Pamela in a week! Along with Shamela and Tom Jones! I adored it!'

I knew someone at Oxford doing English and History joint honours. He was an exception though, I think he had to fight for it. Not sure who - college perhaps.

Sorry for late reply to forago from yesterday...

... i think the league table thing is more rightly viewed as UCL and Imperial joining Ox and Cam in the top league, then Ox and Cam not being the 'best' for future employment anymore..... As ive got one DC about to start his masters at Imperial i certianly hope thats the case!

On the English lit thing, one of my DDs applied to Oxford and didnt get in but was extremely happy elsewhere (and higher ranked in some league tables, specifically for English, fwiw). And is now going to PG law school - so again, i hope all training contracts will not go to Ox and Cam students.

yes that's what I said, there are other choices than Oxford and Cambridge for top tier universities that will look great on your CV (though if I was an administrator at Oxford I think I'd be worried about a gradual slide). Even non top tier is good enough for that vast majority of careers with a good degree.

Just one question. What do people think about the idea that the purpose of an undergraduate degree is to broaden one's experience of education, and deepen one's intellectual understanding i.e to develop and mature as a human being?

I can see that in the current economic and global climate, a degree is one route to higher wages and greater economic security. But do people regard the wages and possible security as the main benefit of higher education?

I think if you don't mature and deepen your intellectual understanding, it'll be pretty obvious in any subsequent job interviews!