UCAS forms sent - just the waiting game now !

[snowyowl70]

My super organised DD1 has had email today to say her forms/reference have been received and should be at her chosen Unis in the next 48 hrs !!!!! So the waiting begins - to those seasoned parents who have done this before can you remember how long they had to wait for their first responses ? At least 2 out of her 5 may call her for interview (MFL) so am guessing these might be fairly on the ball ?

Bonsoir - thanks. That was good going. DS's first choice is overseas. He's reasonably confident of achieving what's necessary. But perhaps no harm in having an easier offer at home to fall back on especially as he's a little clearer now about what he wants to do so finding a UK course is a bit easier than it was 6 months ago.

Could anyone recommend good universities for History? My dd2 wants to go to some open days. Her predictions are high, but we still need a range of choices so we have an insurance option or two.

Any ideas where we should visit?

Durham, UCL, Oxford, York, Bristol.

Thanks venturabay. The only thing that worries me about that list is that they all have very high grade requirements. Whilst she is predicted four A's at AS, it might not happen.

Any ideas for a reserve?

To be honest as a Historian I might have a slightly different subjective list, but there are lots of objective measures out there. This is one of the league tables www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?s=History each of the tables put the data together with slightly different weightings but for me student satisfaction, research rankings (which is what the best academics will be looking at in terms of applying for jobs, that doesn't always equate to teaching, I know a girl who went to Oxford and fell behind because her tutor was always away at conferences etc) and employability matter. Entry criteria reflect demand and that does not entirely reflect the strength of the course, it can be the "name" which might matter to you but also the town, facilities etc.

You would have to go a long way down this list before the offer was less than 3As but these are competitive times and some of those 3A offers might translate to ABB in clearing or in flexibility if your DD doesn't make the grade or indeed into a reduction to ABB before your DD has even sat the exams, as has happened to my DD for one university. And her top choice, highest in the league tables, didn't give her the advertised 3A offer in the first place. We took the decision to apply only for courses with advertised 3A offers, it is a joint honours with English, but to include Birmingham and Sussex, both of which have a lot to offer in terms of the quality of courses, as possible insurance options and from them we have an unconditional and a reduced offer now. Our strategy was always that if it didn't work out there was clearing, or a gap year.

Well her comp.l has said she should try for Oxford (sounds like a nightmare process), then have a couple of high places and a couple of reserves.

Probably having Durham on the list might not be a good idea, as it requires higher than Oxford (A*AA) - so really it is one or the other. She likes the sound of York & Bristol already. I'll suggest having a look at Birmingham and Sussex. Does your dd study History?

Sadly I seem to have put them both off neither of my DDs wants to study History at uni . For DD2 it is a joint honours with English and with Dd 1 I get to share her enthusiasm for Darwin and the rest is hieroglyphics

Yes the Durham course is top of my list.

Presumably, if you include Oxford in the list then it would take up one of the five UCAS slots. Or is it a sixth choice / separate process? This is new to me.

No it is one of the five choices but you are only allowed to put down one of Oxford and Cambridge. Just make sure that Oxford is your DDs choice, not just the school wanting the name, it isn't the highest ranked.

I believe they may have suggested that because they know more about Oxford / have a contact rather than anything else.

Funnily enough, I wondered the same, so she is going on a Cambridge History Masterclass, so she can compare the two. I'm not sure if she has enough A* at GCSE anyway. Do they have a standard requirement on GCSE's beyond which it isn't worth applying? (Sorry to hi-jack thread)

The advice used to be they should have at least 7As but I think that has relaxed recently for someone who has an otherwise strong application. UMS AS marks matter more, and especially from a state school that does not get lots of pupils with As. Your DD should ask the question at the masterclass, better to get it from the horse's mouth, and they like students who ask. They will not look down their noses or judge.

I wouldn't let putting Oxbridge deter you from Durham. I think it will be incredibly common to apply to both, and quite a few go for Durham even with an Oxbridge offer.

By the way the Oxbridge process isn't that intimidating as long as you accept that that no matter how brilliant you are there no guarantees, but for someone bright enough to be considering top unis it is always worth a try. It is when people set their heart on it that it becomes stressful and potentially heart-breaking. You do have to have read around and have definite interests and opinions, to be able to perform well in an interview but then a candidate who is right for any of the top unis will have done that, it is chicken and egg, and the whole point of the process is to look beyond all other factors to see who would have most chance of success on the course. Added to that you are interviewed by those who will teach you so whether they will want to teach you is another consideration, and indeed whether you would want to be taught by them . As the Cambridge pool shows (when a college judges a candidate of Cambridge standard but just not one of the best candidates for that college that year )there are lots of people who they judge of Cambridge standard who do not get in. This might be helpful www.theguardian.com/education/2012/jan/10/how-cambridge-admissions-really-work

Oxford doesn't use UMS marks but Cambridge does. The 7A* at GCSE thing really varies from subject to subject which is why there is no set minimum. However,if you look at the application requirements for the Oxford UNIQ summer school programme you can see they do have a minimum which gives some idea but should by no means put off a student with below that number, particularly if they attend a poorly performing school which is where contextual data comes in.

e.g a student with 7A from a school that normally averages 9As has underperformed whereas a student with 4As has out performed a school that averages 1A.

It is harder to get on to the UNIQ summer programme statistically than Oxford itself!

Hmm. She probably falls somewhere in the middle. From an average state school (has only sent one pupil to Oxbridge in past three years or so). Daughter got half A* and half A (eleven GCSE's). Doing well at AS, so they say she has something called 'upward trajectory'. Makes her sound like a space traveller!

From what you have said, that would probably make her a very borderline candidate. I'll get her to ask at the Masterclass, as it is pointless wasting a space on the UCAS application. Will let you know what they say! Anyway, she will enjoy the day and may pick up some useful tips.

Shooting - are you sure that's correct about Oxford offers being declined in favour of Durham? I've never heard of anyone doing that. DS1's schools sent lots of children to Oxbridge and the only time there was ever a declined Oxbridge offer was in favour of an Ivy League, certainly not Durham.

Littleham - What subjects is she studying at AS level (and which will she retain to A2) and what subject will she be applying for?

Little ham, you say that it is 'Oxford or Durham' because Durham's standard offer is higher, but that isn't relevant because if she doesn't receive an offer from Oxford, the tarriff is irrelevant. She might well be rejected from Oxford but accepted at Durham and go on to achieve or better the requirement.

She is studying History, Geography, Biology and Maths. She is not sure which one to drop, as she is getting A's in every subject and likes them all. The only module she hates is statistics. It might become clearer after the AS results.

It is entirely possible that she could end up applying for one of the other subjects - teenagers being teenagers. At the moment she is set on History because she enjoys it so much. She found herself a voluntary job in a museum and is researching local history, writing history leaflets for the public & setting up displays. So that should help.

For the History course most definitely. It is extremely highly regarded. Also examples where those accepted at Oxford in particular have been rejected by Durham.

In academic terms there are quite a few Science and Humanities courses for which Oxford in particular is not the most well regarded, and not just where it is Cambridge that is ahead. History is one. In fact the QS world rankings, which is determined by global academic review, puts UCL ahead of Oxford generally.

Obviously for some people they just want the prestige and experience of Oxford, and there are actually ways of getting in that are easier than others and we know DCs who have been willing to make do with courses that were not their first choice to improve their chances. For other people there will be other factors in the decision

I'm doubtful about Durham History undergraduates rejecting Oxford and Cambridge offers too Shooting. It's very common indeed to hear that most have applied to one or other of Oxford or Cambridge and been rejected, but actually almost unheard of for it to go the other way round. Why do you say otherwise? Interested in your source.

You do seem to have a downer on Oxford - less so on Cambridge I note :)

I would say that for History undergraduates Oxford is way, way superior in terms of library facilities even compared to Cambridge, let alone Durham, and History undergraduates do need to spend a good deal of time in their library. At Oxford the lucky undergraduates now preside over the all the beautiful big name libraries in the centre of town, having expelled their English peers who've been banished to the modern not-at-all pretty building which they share with the lawyers. Cambridge has a modern facility too though the architecture isn't grim and dowdy like Durham's. Why the powers that be ever moved History from the lovely library on Palace Green up to the Science Site goodness alone knows. Amazing that it clearly hasn't stifled all creativity, but it truly is grim.

Absolutely agree with Slipshod: it's not possible to say 'either Oxford or Durham' since no applicant can know at the outset which uni will give them an offer - and obviously some get rejected by both. My DC all applied to both (two for History) on the who knows? principle. The current DS (History) applied to Oxford in the full expectation of a rejection but to Durham with rather more hope. It's still not clear where he would be best suited, but it looks increasingly as though Durham may reject him, since he still hasn't heard :(

I know history at Durham is well regarded. But being accepted at Oxford while being rejected at Durham isn't the same as declining an Oxford place to take up an offer from Durham

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Cross post I think TheBeautifulVisit :) I would add that the fact Durham rejects some with an Oxford offer may merely make Durham more workaday in its admissions process. It certainly doesn't prove, or even indicate, that Durham is 'better' than Oxford.

the too I see. Very sloppy typing. And I'm not even attempting pancakes tonight.....

It all sounds horribly competitive. Back to the arena we go....

• Get qualifications
• Acquire bow and arrow
• Volunteer
• Prove ability to charm / interview well
• Prove fitness / sporting abilities
• Sing with the birds
• Beat fellow competitors
• Survival skills
• Bribery if really desperate (just kidding) Did Suzanne Collins have teenagers going through the British university system by any chance? Can I really cope with Durham again - let alone Oxbridge!!

We do have a proven ability with pancakes though - both making and eating....

Littleham the Oxford process for History is really very simple. Cambridge's is even more so since is has no pre-test. All she'll need to do for Cambridge is lob in a couple of A level essays and turn up for the interview which is pretty much guaranteed. Oxford needs one A level essay, plus a reasonable mark on the aptitude test (for which all the info she'll need is on the website and she can supplement that with the info given out at the History specific Open day at the end of Aug). Those two will determine whether she gets an interview. Nothing more mystical than that. Also, she doesn't need straight A*s to get an offer, nor 4 As at AS. She just needs to be seriously good at History and I think to enjoy it too.