As a parent, do you feel your DC's Uni "should" communicate with you?

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

A general question really, I work for a uni and we regularly get complaints from parents that we should have told them stuff.

But, the student is an adult and the contract is between the student and the university, even if parents are paying the fees/living allowance.

In some cases we would be breaking confidentiality by informing parents (e.g. Health issues), in others, I just think it's odd that parents get involved (e.g. student not picked for sports team).

Would appreciate some views/experiences

Which reminds me of a good many threads on mumsnet where parents/in laws are overly involved in the adult child's life, often where they've given a "helping" hand

I agree that parents at open days are here to stay- open days have totally changed in nature- but I think that once you have dropped them off you let them get on with it. Parents are treating it like an extension of school- just a higher one and it really isn't, it is a complete change. Universities will have to resist making them just an extension of school.

You can see where you get the problems of parents/PIL, allnewtaketwo because they haven't let go. When are they going to let go and realise it isn't any of their business? Never in some cases. You can see why IL relations are a problem - the DC has never stood up to them and suddenly they get a partner who isn't going to put up with it. You would hope that if universites do cave in to giving students a paper to sign with permission for parent involvement that the student takes the opportunity to cut the apron string and refuses to sign. (Not a hope if they haven't stood up to them by 18yrs IMO)
Perhaps 30yrs is the new age of independence.

You may not like it, but parental involvement is here to stay, especially now that such vast sums of money are involved. If your young-adult was buying a car or a house you would give advice, if asked, so it's not surprising that parents 'kick the tyres' of Universities too

But parents are increasingly making the decision in the guise of giving 'advice'. Studying for a degree involves a lot more effort than living in a house or driving a car (both of which I managed to do without having ever wanted or received parental advice, nor would I expect to give advice to my adult DC).

I spend hours of my time dealing with unhappy and failing first years who are on a degree courses that are not right for them or that they didn't really want to do. They always blame the parents and often refuse to take any responsibility for the decision that they made (or should have made).

Clearly I can't know if or how much parents were involved in each case, but the trend to increasingly infantalizing young adults is not the best way to organise society in my opinion. And this is not just about the fees, it is a wider social problem (look at the lack of freedom given to primary age children in comparison with the past).

Previous generations managed to be adults, often at ages younger than 18, so why is it so different now?

I think it is different because there are more choices, more information and the World is more complex than it was. Even something simple such as the range of university courses available which has increased enormously makes life more confusing. I think more parental involvement is here to stay and not all bad in every way.

I agree that there is more parental influence rather than discussion of university choices and that is negative. It seems increasingly common to hear parents insisting their children study a course that they believe will lead to employment.

Unless it's an absolute life or death scenario, absolutely no way.

I would have felt demeaned if university chose to tell my parents I wasn't coming to lectures or similar, they're not little children. What would happen if your young adult DC was in work, would you call the boss and ask how they were doing? Ask for a pay rise?

Just because you've invested financially doesn't give you the right to intervene in everything. Talk to your DC to find out how things are going, do not ham up how much you're paying and have high expectations as this is why they'll lie to you if things go badly. If they fail I'm afraid they have to deal with that.

I think things like this need to be put a stop to, and it made clear right from day 1 you can't call and expect information.

You may not like it, but parental involvement is here to stay, especially now that such vast sums of money are involved. If your young-adult was buying a car or a house you would give advice, if asked, so it's not surprising that parents 'kick the tyres' of Universities too

< sigh > To state the obvious, a university education is not a commodity like a car or a house. It is an opportunity to study for a degree. And that means so much more than the marks, or the Class grade at the end.

It is a privilege that should be available to anyone who can cope intellectually and with their full commitment to the process. And not available to those who can't or won't or don't commit (and I'm not talking disabled here).

But then I'm an idealist -- just as well really, for all the students I teach. Because otherwise I'd have done the other job I was offered and be making shedloads in the City.

I think it would be nice to have some communication at the beginning, for example a letter to parents explaining that they are welcome to come to an open day with their child, and that many do these days, and perhaps that a special tour will be put on for them with other parents.
Then I think "NotFluffy's" principal played it just right (at start of thread) giving parents a short address on open day but then saying he wouldn't be allowed/able to speak to them again until graduation day ! Gives parents a strong message that it's over to the students now, but helping everyone look towards graduation day with some positive anticipation and pride !

I think part of this problem stems from the fact that for many young people there are no alternatives presented to them in school other than going to university .In my day university was just one option and frankly one really for the few that were of an academic turn of mind ,now everybody is being encouraged to go ,they feel that they have no option.

My ds is definitely academic but wasn't sure what else he could do other than university because for an arts type there is no alternative ,consequently many young people end up feeling like they have been pushed by school or parental expectation into an environment which isn't really for them .

In addition university is held out by school to be the promised land ,very little is talked about the actual reality in my experience and so young people feel a huge expectation to enjoy it ,plus now a degree isn't enough you have to be working your CV from the day you get there,the whole thing is massively pressurised and frankly I'm surprised more don't crack under the pressure.

It has been quite an eye opener to me from my experience at a very middle class university in the north east in the eighties where frankly it was a bit on an extension of boarding school (interestingly that university still seems to be pretty like that now)to the sprawling mass that is ds's huge RG university of today .

Whilst I don't feel that any of this is Universities fault or even their responsibility it is no good harking back to the old days where there were no mobile communications and where if my lecturer didn't turn up for a whole term (as they didn't ) no one said anything because we were too cowed and my parents would have just told me to be polite and thta he must have had his reasons and no definitely do not complain .My ds and his friends expect answers to questions about they course ,they organised meetings to discuss proposed course changes and expected to be heard, they were and some changes were made ,though not enough in my opinion but its not my business .Students and and parents are well aware that just a degree is not enough these days ,they may not be paying upfront but they will be paying a percentage of earnings for a long time and they and their parents are very aware of this and most parents are making a heafty contribution themselves to living costs etc

I don't see the point in telling them they need to do a course because it leads to employment- there are people my age who had that and it never worked- they generally had a mid life crisis and changed everything- or were stuck and increasingly unhappy. You get one life and it isn't a rehearsal- you need to be following a career that interests you. Even my eldest DS's friends are having complete life changes- the days of a job for life is over.
My DS chose his course and was passionate about it. DH and I knew it would be tough - and it was- he has just got a job that he is qualified for 13 months after graduating. I am glad that we didn't channel him down the 'sensible'.
It is their life- you have to let them lead it. Give advice and support but leave them to the decisions.

Perhaps there should be lectures for parents at open days, explaining that their role is to let their child grow up [grin.] I'd be happy with that!

Turned out he had been ill, but had then reached that point where because he'd missed classes he couldn't face going back. He'd got into a spiral of not going, and he didn't know what to do

I find it hard to believe that his Department, and all the orientation material he would have had, hadn't given copious advice about this sort of situation. I put advice on every single module outline I teach in short: -- if there's a problem get in touch

All he had to do was summon up the courage to talk to his personal tutor, to the student union advisor, or a sub-warden in his halls, or a friend in halls or elsewhere.

I absolutely understand why you were worried (my little boy grown up DS is on an adventure on the other side of the world this year & boy oh boy do I wait for the weekly email), but I'm not sure it's fair that your annoyance is entirely with the university. Part of growing up is fixing up your mistakes, and realising you're just human; and certainly his tutors will have seen it all before. I hope that when you scooped him up, and after he was well again, you worked through with him better coping strategies.

Open days would be a great opportunity to give a talk on the role of the parent with an adult child.

Oh gosh, exotic fruits so universities now need to give parenting advice? Not sure I'd be happy with that as either a tutor or a parent!

"Well, I'd like know if the £27,000 plus living costs I'll be spending is going to pot. So if I'm paying for the course, I'd like to know if DC is failing. It's, like, my money you know...hmm"

God help you, then, if, in your old age, your children kindly pay towards your care home accommodation. Would you want them informed if you were compliant with meals, bedtimes and medication? Would their contribution give them that right?

If one adult chooses to give another adult money, that is their decision. If you choose to give the money contingently, that is effectively a contract between two adults, and, if your child is failing, that is a discussion to be had with them.

No, no, no, don't infantilise adults. Eighteen is adulthood. Parents have no more rights than any other person listed as next of kin.

I think you can make the separation at 18 (when they go off to Uni/college) too extreme though - throwing your chicks out of the nest !
Let them fly off as fledglings but coming back to the nest every now and again until they feel confident !

Juggling,

There is a huge difference between letting them come back and making them come back. I.E continuing to monitor their lives.

If they are in trouble and ask for help, then you can provide it. If they want to function as independent adults, it is not for their University to break their duty of confidentiality to an adult.

verlaine I was asked about universities getting away with murder because they are dealing with the immature. Young people don't generally know how to deal with contract problems and they may seek advice from parents. Universities should expect that and accept that they have led a protected life in the past. But whether the young person seeks help or not parents are going to become involved when there is a serious problem, the university's choice is only about how it handles that.

The simplest, cheapest support system is a parent. Universities need to provide more welfare services because they refuse to communicate with parents.

I think by the time they are going to Uni, children should have experienced a bit of independent living - being left in the family home to fend for themselves for a bit, gone away by themselves, learnt to budget, learnt to keep themselves safe and out of risky situations.

Otherwise it is too much of a shock. Parents do children no favours by running their lives up to then (disabilities excepted).

already, they're not 'refusing' out of some bizarre kind of spite. Adults are adults. Universities are bound by data protection laws just like everyone else.

Students need to take up services that are offered. Several people on this thread seem convinced that no student would ever struggle if only university tutors did this, that and the other ... which university tutors already do.

I know students who're struggling are in the least good position to be responsible and proactive in seeking out and taking up the help that's on offer - but the only sanctions the university has are those that will ultimately damage that student's learning anyway: kicking them off courses, threatening not to let them continue. The kinds of people who want the university to 'communicate' with parents are also the kinds who would be screaming blue murder if the university got in touch to say 'if you don't force your adult child to go to class, he will be kicked off the course'. Suddenly, at that point, it would all become the university's problem again, I suspect.

It wasn't exactly parenting advice, UptheChimney - I had in mind ' cut the apron strings- do not waste time contacting- see you on graduation day!'

exoticfruits oh thank goodness not really qualified to tell other parents how to raise their almost-adult children as I'm still working it out myself.

But seriously, Universities need to provide more welfare services because they refuse to communicate with parents is not feasible or correct: it's often the students who are refusing to communicate -- with either parents or university sources of help.

I agree with alreadytaken.
My DD was able to organise her own student finances. cook, clean, budget, sort out transport to and from her uni, function as an adult in her new environment. Attend lectures and seminars punctually and submit all the work asked of her.
But she slid into depression, and kept sliding further down.
The welfare services available looked very good online and in theory, in reality they were chaotic, spasmodic and 'one size fits all' She needed an advocate and had none. The termly sessions with an advice/support tutor didn't happen, whatever the blurb said was supposed to. She floundered along as a young, independent and the system let her down.
Yes, I know that university lecturers have no expertise in mental illness, spectrum disorders or disabilities in general, but the universities should be able to provide a conduit to access those services, and they should be of high quality, and liaise with the academic side.

'But whether the young person seeks help or not parents are going to become involved when there is a serious problem, the university's choice is only about how it handles that.
The simplest, cheapest support system is a parent. Universities need to provide more welfare services because they refuse to communicate with parents.'

I am now fully involved with supporting my child. Not with the university.
Because the situation is now crisis intervention.

I thought that part of the point of university was to allow you to fuck up a bit, without it being a total catastrophe.

It is a massive learning experience about living away from home and starting to take genuine responsibility for your own life.

My brother had a complete breakdown at the start of his 2nd year at uni and dropped out. He had to go back home for a few years and do a different course living at home. He was very immature, wasn't eating properly, got depressed and simply couldn't cope. I don't think anything the uni could have done would have been enough to help him to stay.

Sometimes, people are not going to be suited to uni, or ready for it or will have a crisis of some kind and need to have a re-think on their own way forward. I'm not sure that constant helicoptering by parents and helpful staff is always the right thing in situations like this, as sometimes it just prolongs the inevitable failure to cope.

You are only 'throwing your chicks out of the nest' if you have been a lazy parent who finds doing it for them and overprotecting them an easier option than giving them age appropriate independence and responsibility. If it has been a gradual process since birth they are ready to go, and will come back. Birds do not turf their chicks out of the nest without having made sure they can cope! Parents send off to university DCs who can't cook a meal or operate a washing machine, with no idea how to cope with problems or deal with organising their work load.
I thought you would have realised from my other posts that I wasn't advocating serious talks! Just lay the realities on the line! I'm sure some parents think it just like school and have no idea that they won't be involved in feedback etc.

'But seriously, Universities need to provide more welfare services because they refuse to communicate with parents is not feasible or correct: it's often the students who are refusing to communicate -- with either parents or university sources of help.'

So you leave the mentally ill to slide into suicide because they won't actively access support ? Is that how it works in the real world?
Or do we relly on family, friends, neighbours and work colleagues to become actively involved in enabling the problem to be recognised and help offered.
If you continuously didn't show up to work, or arrived unwashed and unkempt, unprepared, failed to meet the needs of your students, there would be meetings with your line manager, questions asked and threats about job security made. There would also be offers of counselling, support within the system targeted at your areas of difficulty, perhaps mentoring/observation by a colleague in order to support you.
All you'd have to do was begin to fail, and the situation would not go unnoticed and ignored.