As a parent, do you feel your DC's Uni "should" communicate with you?

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A general question really, I work for a uni and we regularly get complaints from parents that we should have told them stuff.

But, the student is an adult and the contract is between the student and the university, even if parents are paying the fees/living allowance.

In some cases we would be breaking confidentiality by informing parents (e.g. Health issues), in others, I just think it's odd that parents get involved (e.g. student not picked for sports team).

Would appreciate some views/experiences

But those things have nothing to do with making contact with parents, eyes.

Those things should happen at a university with students. I know first-hand that some universities are really, really shit at this, and I'm not excusing that. What I don't get is why anyone thinks that waiving students' rights and getting in touch with parents is the right solution.

Btw, in the real world, yes, that often is how it works.

It's not as if there's some kind of obvious distinction between universities and employers in how good they are at supporting people who're struggling. Some are good. Some are bad.

Have tried to read most of the comments on here but may have missed a few - it is really interesting and a huge issue. I have experience of being a University Faculty Officer, a residential tutor in a Hall of Residence and a Student Counsellor, ( all RG Universities and the OU) and I do think this question needs careful thinking about by Unis in general- there are so many aspects to consider, confidentiality being perhaps the major one - although the issue of parents paying fees/living costs etc is now really raising its head, as many see a University education as something to be 'bought' - as a value for money kind of investment. I guess my perspective is from the students themselves, - the actual hands on living issues faced by students daily, including personal health, finance issues, accommodation issues, coping with being independent supposedly etc, and seeing how this affects academic issues. There is the question of whether an 18 year old's transition to being an adult is a level playing field if that makes sense, some are ready, mature and capable, some are immature, out of their depth, and struggling - just because they have physically turned 18 and have done well in exams is not necessarily adequate preparation for then living independently and managing things.

I have been involved with students on medical courses, many successful, but some of whom have tread water from day one, and the only 'legal' communication from the university would be down to exam failure/non attendance etc,. There needs to be proper pastoral/tutor time with individuals for appraisal and review and this often does not happen enough. It is impossible for many 'strugglers' to discuss issues with tutors, or indeed parents, and although Universities do offer counselling and other types of support, those who need it most many often be the last to take these services up.

As a residential tutor, I was 'available' to students at all hours and had regular open door evenings for them to come and discuss whatever, in a confidential way, sometimes it could be sorted easily, often more complex issues had to be dealt with by other services.

Things have changed enormously in the past 20 years or so, and our 'old' experiences are long gone really - the Uni/student/parent/ interface is a really complex issue which these organisations must tackle.

Eyesunderarock, as an employee if you were underperforming at work, you would be given a few chats, then up to 3 warnings & if your performance didn't improve you'd be fired. Or you'd go to your doctor and be signed off sick.

Adults past uni age fail to cope too and often form a huge part of the long-term unemployed. I don't think you'll find there is much support out there for them at all, other than their local GP.

eyesunderarock Respectfully, I think you are projecting your understandable distress onto the wrong institution/people.

I have seen students in that sort of distress who tell me, point blank, looking me in the eyes, that they need no help, or that nothing's wrong, or that they don't need/won't take action to get help. I could go on. And when I ask if I can contact University services on their behalf they say "No." Ditto to contacting parents

What do you suggest I do in those sorts of situations? Forcibly march students to the health centre or counselling? Would you suggest I break the law?

I do know that such behaviour is a symptom of an illness (as is self-harming, excessive drinking, not washing etc etc -- I've seen it all), but put absolutely bluntly, there is little I can do if the student won't let me.

Besides which, if you did look at a student in that situation and decide 'oh, I'll waive the law this time and ring his parents', what happens if you discover the parents' idea of what to do isn't helping? It's not like school, you can take an adult child out of university and isolate them completely from all the professionals who are meant to notice when a child's parents seem not to be doing the right things.

I know no-one thinks they're 'that' parent. But some parents must be. It's quite easy to do the wrong thing by mistake, too - if you're not a trained professional, and your beloved child is telling you they're not really suicidally depressed and it's all fine now, would you necessarily know the difference? I don't think I would.

'There needs to be proper pastoral/tutor time with individuals for appraisal and review and this often does not happen enough. It is impossible for many 'strugglers' to discuss issues with tutors, or indeed parents, and although Universities do offer counselling and other types of support, those who need it most many often be the last to take these services up.'

Exactly. If you know that the uni counselling and support systems are poor, shit, or barely in existence other than the legal minimum, then you need to allow other concerned individuals to step in. Like hospitals allowing relatives to provide basic care that they aren't capable of.
Whilst you work towards changing that system. Unfortunately in the past, it would have been the students demanding the change and pushing for improvements, but as has already been said, the past was very different.

I do disapprove of helicopter parenting, of the 'barely able to manage' that are sent off to uni unable to budget or know how to share a house with equals, or how to balance their course demands and their socialising.
The money is irrelevant, the debt is the student's not the parent's.
The ones that are there to make up the government demands of '50% at Uni' and are there because there are few alternatives for mediocre academics who might excel at training in the workplace instead.
When I was at uni, the people were mostly there because they loved their subject and wanted to study. Yes, we spent a lot of time drunk or living on porridge, but we also knew and loved our subjects and the majority weren't just marking time.

Parents have no right to know about attendance, marks or disciplinary action. They have no right to know if students are still registered or have left. To involve parents in this would be a breech of the student's human rights. Regardless of what some parents might want, this cannot change unless the legal age of adulthood changes.

If a student has a medical emergency which means they do not have the capacity to contact their next-of-kin, then you will be called. If you can't cope with this as a parent, then perhaps you should use your 'advice' to keep your DC from attending university.

What magic powers do tutors have, that counselling service professionals don't, that you think tutorial meetings would be effective for those students who won't take up what counselling services offer?

'What do you suggest I do in those sorts of situations? Forcibly march students to the health centre or counselling? Would you suggest I break the law?'

No. I'd suggest that you contacted a counseller and shared your concerns about the student, and let them decide what sort of contact to make, how to reach out.
Rather like phoning SS when your neighbour is heard screaming and seen with a black eye, looks down when you ask and says 'No, there's nothing wrong'

By allowing the student to understand that it is acceptable to ask for help, that it is common to struggle and that there are support networks available.
To be a person who can sit and listen to their worries in the new situation they are in and help them find a path.

Because at 18, mostly you don't know that. Especially of you flew through your GCSEs and A levels, if you've never failed before.

I am hoping that the close relationship I have worked hard to have with my ds will enable him to approach me himself about anything serious. I wouldn't expect the uni to contact me though although if it was very serious I might think differently. I have told my son all through his life that there is nothing he can't talk to us about no matter what and tbh he has even with some pretty serious stuff re friends drugs etc. The relationship doesn't just stop and I think teens today are more reliant on parental input but they do need to learn as well It is a hard one to call.

But it isn't like phoning SS for your neighbour - unless you're in a position of official responsibility towards your neighbour, and are required to keep your interactions with them confidential?

I can just imagine how well 'it's acceptable to ask for help' would work in this context.

'Yes dear, it's acceptable to ask for help, you can trust me. What, sorry, you're saying you're feeling terrible? Well, I must ring your parents now. You don't want me to? Never mind, I was lying when I said you could trust me.'

How interesting to be on a different wave-length to usual, dragon.
We have met on many a feminist thread, talking about similar imbalances of power and not victim-blaming.
Usually you give me a lot to think about, when my response has been 'They are independent women being abused, they should challenge, they should just leave, they are adults, why would they stay in that situation?'
and you have given me so many erudite and sensible explanations as to why they can't and won't take responsibility for themselves that have made me think.

I'd suggest that you contacted a counseller and shared your concerns about the student, and let them decide what sort of contact to make, how to reach out

But makes you believe that this doesn't happen? It has in every uni I have ever worked or studied in. But when the student refuses to attend meetings with counselling or other support systems there is nothing we can legally do, you cannot force adults to do anything.

I have had a number of angry parents shouting at me down the phone about the lack of services their DC has received, and whilst I know that they were offered lots of support which was all refused I cannot disclose this. The students have often lied to their parents, but we take the blame.

Unless the student is so distressed they are a danger to themselves or others, we cannot force them to attend any support sessions. And if they believe they are in danger or a risk to others, our first call is to the the mental health crisis team. We will then take their advice about contacting next-of-kin.

eyes - I don't quite follow.

I am not victim-blaming at all.

I am actually quite angry, if that's what you meant.

Adults are adults.

What worries me about this thread, is the idea that parents have some kind of rights over their adult children's lives, and that they and university tutors should be given the rights to control those adult children's lives.

It is an invasion of privacy for a tutor to waive his or her students' privacy to a parent. It is a violation of trust if this is done by coercion on the part of the parent or the tutor.

I feel really strongly about this and I cannot believe it comes across as victim-blaming.

It is not remotely similar to the victim-blaming 'why don't abused women just leave' rubbish. It is hard for abused women to leave. It is hard for people struggling with mental health issues to seek help.

Why you believe that it makes either situation better to violate trust and privacy, I fail to see?

Btw, I've been mincing my words a bit, but since abuse has been brought up: one reason it'd be shitty and stupid for tutors to get in touch with parents is that one. Can you imagine the effect if you find a student who has just got away from abusive parents, and your first port of call is those parents?

I am not saying this is particularly common, but the possibility gives me the shudders.

To be a person who can sit and listen to their worries in the new situation they are in and help them find a path

I can do that for their academic path, but as I have 40 personal tutees, and teach classes of 120 (ask various governments why that is!), I really cannot "sit and listen" to all their worries.

It seems that some parents on this thread (a minority) want someone like me to be in loco parentis What if my ideas of parenting are different from yours? What if, from my perspective, your parenting is part of the problem, and I tell the student that?

In my view, doing that would be unprofessional and overstepping my expertise, but if parents want this sort of care of their DCs while at university, they might want to think about the consequences ...

I'd suggest that you contacted a counseller and shared your concerns about the student Yes I do that. Of course any tutor does that if it seems necessary. But the student needs to make contact with the counselling or advice services. Neither I nor the counselling service can force them to do this.

General question to concerned parents: where do you want "your" money to go? As I say upthread, it costs just under £9,000 to educate an undergrad in my course, up to £15,000 in medicine & some sciences, less than £9,000 in other subjects. Universities are chronically underfunded, and the £9,000 fee cap will be under a lot of pressure quite soon, I predict. Do you want that money spent on teaching and research? Or wrap around support? To put it bleakly & possibly over-simplified but still. There will be a point where some/most universities won't be able to do both properly.

guineapiglet very good post .

My ds has made a couple of fairly poor decisions this year,luckily his tutor does seem to have made himself available but it does seem to be common practice for many tutors not to be available to students,I am sure the academics on here are great but many tutors are middle aged male academics with little or no tolerance or interest in students and even less empathy.Students do find themselves intimidated and struggle to approach them with problems ,I don't think parents should be contacted but sometimes they could suggest that a parent might be able to offer support rather than treating any person seeking support from a parent as a complete inadequate

The money is not irrelevant i am afraid ,many students will not receive enough from the Government through the loan system to even cover their rent especially in the first year when they are in hall/sc flats .The form you receive from student finance spells it out that the extra is the responsibility of the parent .

PostBellumbugsy,I run a team and no member experiencing mental health difficulties would be dealt with quite so cold heartedly as that ,I would hope (and in fact we recently have)been more compassionate,constructive and supportive of a colleague in difficulty.Would you behave the same way if they had a physical illness?

The thing is even if students do receive counselling or support from the university - it still may not be enough!

There are some students who are support junkies and will take every bit of help offered, but there are others who quite simply won't. It is exactly the same outside of uni too. There will be people at work who have counselling and use the work helplines every time they have an ingrowing toenail and others whose lives dissolve into chaos but they can't or won't ask for help.

You hope as a parent you will recognise that your DCs are descending into hopeless chaos - but you may not and even if you did, sometimes there aren't even things you can do. It is hard to get an 18 year old that doesn't want to go in front of a GP. You only have to take a look at anorexia to see that no amount of parental intervention can prevent a young person/ young adult from wilfully starving themselves.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it is rare nowadays for people who can ask for help not to get it to some degree. It is those who can't or won't who fall through the nets & I'm not sure that universities are any more able to help these people than any other organisation or person.

I have had a number of angry parents shouting at me down the phone about the lack of services their DC has received, and whilst I know that they were offered lots of support which was all refused I cannot disclose this. The students have often lied to their parents, but we take the blame

Snap!

outtolunch - depends where you work. In the world of corporate finance, yes that is how cold hearted it would be. In fact, you could skip the 3 chats bit & head straight to warnings - unless of course the person had actually been signed off sick.

In the charity world where I work now, there would be more soft intervention first, but eventually if the person was unable to work for a prolonged period of time they would go. It would be a longer, slower and more expensive process but if someone couldn't do their job then yes, they'd go.

If the employee was uncooperative and shunned all attempts to receive help (as is being described in so many student instances), then I think in most organisations, they would end up being fired.

Like the other academics here, these experiences are very familiar. students who won't or can't access the help provided, parents who are disgusted with me when their child leaves them out of the loop, situations where the very last thing that would have helped the student would be to contact the parents (a couple of abuse cases, many many where sexuality was at issue, a good number concerning pregnancy and termination [am in Ireland, so the latter is a very tricky topic as abortion is illegal]). Where students are at risk and in trouble yes of course they need the support of a responsible adult, but I think the point here is that an academic whose focus should be on the overall progress of the student is rarely in a position to make that judgment. Support services are stretched to the nth degree and there aren't enough of them, and most academics I know do their utmost to make up the deficit.

I think many of these issues are compounded by the ease of communication (which as someone says, can increase alienation) but also by the heavy dependence of most systems on continuous assessment. In most places there is very little scope to fuck up, unlike when I was a student where it was possible to drift but still to come out with a first class degree.

I do resent deeply the idea that a university education is a commodity like a house or a car. You cannot buy it. I personally would favour students not coming to university until 20 or 21, that they should do something else first so that they can acquire some of the skills they need.

I agree rhetorician My ds is about to go and is so not ready. His tutor at 6th form said he is a prime candidate to drop out because of this. My ds and many of his mates are going for all the wrong reasons.