As a parent, do you feel your DC's Uni "should" communicate with you?

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A general question really, I work for a uni and we regularly get complaints from parents that we should have told them stuff.

But, the student is an adult and the contract is between the student and the university, even if parents are paying the fees/living allowance.

In some cases we would be breaking confidentiality by informing parents (e.g. Health issues), in others, I just think it's odd that parents get involved (e.g. student not picked for sports team).

Would appreciate some views/experiences

To some extent I agree with mumymastodon. I think that especially in the case of mental health issues, the position regarding communication between parents and university should be made very clear.

This is why it is important to raise your children to be independant from aged 16.
Even at 6th form colleges you don't contact students parents without gaining permission from the student. I had several students with issues, one girl became pregnant and had huge decisions to make. Of course it affected her A levels, but all I could do was point her in the right direction for student support. I was not allowed to become involved and wouldn't want to. She specifically asked for parents not to be told, what more can a tutor do?

There is nothing I can do other than keep plodding on and waiting until the end of the year, supporting as and when I can, and hoping that this coming year will be better than the last

eyesunderarock you, your DD, and the university are in a difficult but all too common situation. If your DD were my personal tutee, I'd be strongly advising her to take a year out (called intercalation at some places), to get well. My analogy is that if she had a treatable but serious physical illness, we wouldn't expect her to keep going with her studies. Yet MH is seen as something tat students just have to limp on with. It is a pity that we live in a culture that regards MH and physical health problems so differently: I try to see them as parallel, and treat a mental health blip in the same way as I would treat a physical health blip. I think part of the problem is that the student feels pressure, or pressures herself, to "soldier on." Often that is a symptom of the MH problem itself. It's a tough one.

But you can't blame universities for being "meat factories." That's a government policy. For example, over my career I've seen "small group" teaching groups increase in size from 8 to 15. And just increasing staff teaching hours is not a viable solution, because then universities can't generate the research that pays for a lot of teaching in all sorts of ways. And so on. It's a difficult sector to work in at the moment, and not helped by a general public attitude (not this thread I mean!) that universities are just another version of school.

< sigh > I think in about 50 years, historians will look back at the ruin of the world's best higher education system.

We are not at this stage with our DCs but I work for a Uni too and we frequently have parents upset that their darlings didn't do very well in their Finals. They usually have the temerity to blame us for not ensuring that their DCs attended lectures, tutorials etc....Unbelievable...

DW and I were talking about this the other day.... DW (she was a total swot) said that it never crossed her mind not to put in the effort or hard work - she comes from a high-achieving family but she did it of her own volition not because her M&D were breathing down her neck.

I think it's a sad reflection of helicopter parenting gone mad...

'I think in about 50 years, historians will look back at the ruin of the world's best higher education system.'

Yes, I agree.

Sadly, parents whose children haven't done as well as they hoped, will often be inclined to pass the blame, as it is easier than admitting that their DC were lazy or a bit thicker than they thought!

For those paying for their DCs uni, well that means you need to be on the case with your DC - not the uni. If you don't trust your DC to be attending lectures & tutorials - or you think there are health reasons (mental or physical) why they might not be, then you set up the meeting with the Uni & your DC to get permission to have some degree of feedback.

I can't believe there are parents who email lecturers!

It's not necessarily about students being 'lazy' or 'thick', though!

What about a student who seems to have a drug/alcohol problem or who's become crushingly depressed? Or they've decided they passionately want to get involved in something extra-curricular that is damaging their studies, even?

I would imagine 99% of parents think they are the special ones who would respond appropriately and helpfully if contacted. But obviously some parents are the ones whose children are thanking god they're now grown up and independent because they can't face their parents and say 'actually, I'm struggling horribly' or 'I really want to do something different from what you planned out for me'.

MummyMastodon re your comment but we can't take an interest in any part of their higher education

I think it depends on how you take an interest. Talk to your DC first of all! Help them become informed about university procedures and expectations. But from a university tutor's point of view, don't:

• help them with their coursework (oh yes, a long time ago, I had to deal with a case where I suspect that the mother wrote her son's essays)
• ring or email the tutor or HoD to ask for information your DC doesn't or won't give you
• use their results as a bribe; eg "I'll pay for X if you get a First" -- it really doesn't help motivate them in the right way, in my experience

But if you talk with them in all sorts of ways about their learning as opposed to their marks or results, that is wonderful!!

I continually tell parents on here that you need to let go in age appropriate ways, e.g leave your 8yr old at home for 10 mins, let the 10yr old cook a meal, let your 16 yr old go camping for a weekend. If you overprotect and over supervise you will be in for a hell of a shock when they hit 18yrs and, sadly, they will be totally unprepared.
The general view is 'they are not responsible enough' but it is your job as the parent to make them responsible and independant - they never will be unless you teach them. e.g if you don't trust your 9 yr old to boil a kettle then you stand by him while he does it- you don't just keep him away from the kettle. It is easier, but it is lazy and you are laying up problems for later when everyone else treats them as adults but you don't.

It doesn't help to offer them money for A'levels IMO. If they don't want them for themselves you question whether they should go to university.

I support independence in teenagers.
However if the parent is paying and also if the teenager has agreed then of course the parents can be told things.
There is nothing to stop a university having all students who are happy with it sign when they start to agree to communication with parents. Some students will not want that and others will.

Universities should obtain those consents and then be pragmatic about relevant issues.

Parents could insist I will only pay the fees university if I am kept involved.

As adults, the students are responsible for their own lives and what they choose to tell their parents is up to them.

If you wouldn't contact their employer, you should not contact their university. Just because they are still in education, doesn't make them children.

Malenky - I would class drug / alcohol problems or an overwhelmingly intense infatuation with either a hobby or another human under MH issues. I think in those instances, the parent, student & Uni should agree a course of action together- if of course the student is willing to do that. If they are not, then I think as a parent, I would be wondering about whether or not I wanted to continue supporting them financially.

upthechimney is spot on. Add in increasing dependence on hourly paid tutors and adjuncts who have little stake or power and its easy to see how things get missed.

Thanks for all the replies, it's been really interesting for me.

Overall I agree with the posts from the academics. All the academics I know work bloody hard. It's a difficult job and you don't do it unless you love it. They usually go the extra mile for students.

I'm not an academic BTW so I'm not bigging myself up.

There's obviously some lack of trust between parents and universities - some parents think that unless they are scrutinised by them, universities will metaphorically slope off to the coffee shop and make a half arsed job of it. That's not my experience. Competition for the best students is tough and universities are measured and reported on relentlessly.

Some really good points re pastoral care and support. Again my experience has been that this is good, but universities cannot be parent substitutes, parents need to prepare their children for all aspects of independent living and self-directed study.

I can't get my head round the "I'm paying for it, I want to know" mentality though. I know students who never attended lectures but got firsts, others who haunted the library but failed. It's not like school where lecturers can predict GCSE grades.

Also, for balance, we also get wonderful feedback from students and parents. I got a letter today from a graduating student's parent who thanked the university for how their physically disabled child was supported, and an email from a student who is dropping out but couldn't say enough good things about the Uni, and that the decision was appositive one for them (if not their parents).

*a positive

Good lord no. I have one at Uni, with DD2 starting this year. I haven't and do not expect either, any correspondence between their universities and me. The are almost 19 and 20 FFS, perfectly able adults and while they ask me for advice, which I will of course give, any issues that may arise are their issues and not mine. My input starts and ends with financial assistance towards living costs and the odd bonus online food shop.

I think in those instances, the parent, student & Uni should agree a course of action together- if of course the student is willing to do that

The "if" is the key here. And let's add another "if" -- if the university is told by the student that there's an issue.

As a tutor, I take attendance records at every lecture or seminar, and report absence to our administrators, who send a note to the individual students, asking them to account for their absence. Yes, we do that in my part of my university. If there is consistent absence, we refer to the student's personal tutor to see what is going on, and then refer the student on to specialised assistance if they need it.

But, the student needs to turn up to a personal tutorial, and then take our advice.

We all offer two hours per week office hours, plus appointments by arrangement. Once a term, I email all my personal tutees to invite them to a short (20 minutes) general personal tutorial, to see how they're going. I offer a range of appointment times over several days across a fortnight. About 20% take up the opportunity. And yet I still get students in course evaluations saying that "there should be compulsory personal tutorials."

< sigh > again.

And one thing occurs to me -- can non-university employed posters say just who they regard as "the university"? I'd be really interested in knowing how you conceptualise "the university" in cases of your DCs in difficulties.

post - but what I'm trying to explain is, you (and every other parent) feel you'd have a role in making those decisions. But some students, in those situations, would say the last person they want to confide in is their parent - that parent might be part of the problem, not part of the solution.

You can say to a student that you think it'd be great if they talked to their parents, but you are going to get students who believe (rightly or wrongly) that their parents would make a bad situation worse. Sometimes they're going to be right, too.

I mean, I'm sure that for every 50 students who say 'my parents are horrible people whose treatment of me was emotional abuse', 49 are over-egging the pudding. But how on earth can you know how to identify the one who isn't, whose trust you'd be breaking if you got in touch with their parents?

Malenky yes, sadly, from where I sit, I see that the parents may well be part of the problem. Very sad.

Hmm, how do I regard the university? I've not really thought about that at all, but I guess I see their universities broken down to their tutors, specific lectures and the degree their doing rather than an all encompassing Bristol or Exeter - they're huge institutions so only their individual groups if you like, are what makes their degree and a pastoral care etc run smoothly. I didn't go to university, but I can't imagine that anyone else would be involved in my DDs' 3 or 4 years there?

*lecturers

FFS *they're. And I'm normally pedant from hell too.

78bunion- It doesn't work like that! You can't just insist you pay the fees if you are involved- there is competition for places!!

Those who would sign a paper letting parents be involved are probably the very parents you don't want!