Geeky DD wants to go to Cambridge but won't make the effort socially........(sorry long)

[Bossybritches22]

Ok sorry for the ramble!
DD1 is a sweet natured,bright girl, always been straight A* student from primary, but inclined to hide behind her books rather than socialise. Walks around welded to the latest tome rather than talk. Doesn't help that we live in the country & DD2 is only 2 yrs younger & they get on well, & they don't get the chance to socialise much with peers. That said we've always made the effort to encourage her to have friends home or to go into town to meet up with her "gang", but unlike DD2 she doesn't seem bothered.

Her interests are all Geeky ones, crafts,knitting, watching TV nothing to set her personal statement alight if she wants to get into a RG uni. Part of me doesn't want to push her too much but the other part thinks that IF she got in to somewhere like Cambridge, she'd be with other like minded students, (her one friend is going there apparently) socially there would be smaller groups of folk on her wavelength (hopefully) & if I'm paying £9k to any Uni I'd rather it was Cambridge than the local poly-turned- Uni. (sorry to sound a snob)

Also being a single parent, I'm told they have private burseries which can help a lot.

Dd wants to do either Linguistics or Classics. She is doing A-level English Lang & Lit, Biology (because she wanted to do Human Biology but they don't do it at her school) & Classic Civilisation. I'm going to have a chat with her form tutor soon, I despair of getting her to DO anything outside the house. If I suggest anything she says "mmmn maybe"

She has a lovely group of chums in her year, she's always talking about them, & when they all came over for her birthday (I nearly fell over when she asked, that was a first) it was so lovely to have a house full of teenagers doing normal pizza/DVD/sleepover stuff but although she enjoyed it we've never persuaded her to repeat it.

I'd hate her to waste her brain & miss her opportunity just because of lack of effort on her part & equally ,although I could arrange more I feel SHE should take responsibility for developing her own hobbies/social activities. She has always been painfully shy & yet delightfully articulate when talking within her comfort zone to folk she knows. She is great fun to be with, but although I enjoy her company,I'd hate her never to leave home!

Any advice welcome!

I have to say I remember a fair number of people who were perhaps not the most socially adequate people I've ever come across, back in the early 80s when I went to Oxcford

Your thread title juxtaposes the idea of getting into Cambridge and making an effort socially, but there's no connection. Oxford and Cambridge are not full of 'geeks'. There are some of course, but being a geek is neither necessary nor sufficient. Both universities are places of diversity, there's room for all. I hope your DD won't feel she's 'wasted her brain' if she doesn't get a place, there are very good alternatives out there!

The idea that all successful applicants have a 'passion' for their subject is probably wide of the mark. A genuine interest and curiosity will do - these students are still young on the whole, with open minds; a passion is what university should give them over the course of their degree, it seems unrealistic to expect them to have honed a passion at the age of eighteen.

People who were geeks at school generally thrive at uni. That's the way.

Yellowstone I have been generally worried about DD's lack of social skills,wether she goes to Uni or not!

The idea of Cambridge was that a) her best friend is going & b) it would be the sort of place where socially she'd feel less out of place as fellow students would be on her wavelength. I'm not saying Oxbridge is full of geeks, just more likely to have like-minded students. Having always read ahead of her years she finds a lot of her contemparies rather immature & shallow (her words)

Making an effort socially/hobbies wise is what we as parents are led to believe is crucial in making an application. I am new to all this, I was a mere Ward Sister practical, not academic at all, hence my blindly fumbling my way through the minefield of Uni options & being grateful for the help on here!

Yellowraincoat I hope so she is definately one of those girls who thrives on being stretched & I think the idea of Uni is exciting for her.

Onholiday Excellent I shall pass on those thoughts. Just searching the Cambridge website for open days. I think you're right, ultimately wherever she feels at home is where she will do best, regardless of what I think!!

Bossybritches she sounds pretty happy in her own skin, be glad for that. I don't think it's got the slightest bearing on the success of an application to Cambridge but hopefully that'll be what she gets if that's what she wants. I agree with everyone else that the environment there might well be more welcoming than many places for a DD like yours.

Yup, I'm a classicist and have interviewed for both Ox and Cam (though not at either now). Extracurriculars essentially irrelevant because otherwise none of the academics would have got in themselves. A language at A level is a good idea if possible; as are JACT summer schools / helping with a dig etc. Since she has neither Latin nor Greek at school, some evidence of foreign-language facility is a big advantage.

Thanks Yellowstone , she is quite a content young lady so I have learned to value her for what she IS not what we/I/society says she ought to be.

I think we will have a lot of fun exploring the endless possibilities of her future, & whilst part of me dreads her leaving home, I am being brave about encouraging her to spread her wings & make her own choices! (a whole other thread there I think! )

Dear OP this is going to sound obvious but has your DD been to look round?

What does she think of it? This is a good link to the classics open day
www.classics.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/open_days/

My DD went with the rest of her classics A level class two years ago and said it was great. I went to a talk from a classics admission tutor at Cambridge once and he said it was important to display an aptitude for languages and a love of the origins of things (such as philosophy and political thought) and essay writing skills. There is apparently some kind of language test for the modern languages entry at Cambridge (others will know more) so from what you say your DD needs to do more to strengthen her application in terms of languages if she wants to do linguistics. I don't think personality comes into it that much but I am not an admissions tutor.

Other interesting things to do with your DD are to go to the classics plays at Oxford playhouse-
www.classics.ox.ac.uk/outreach/theatre/Clytemnestra.asp
or this
www.classics.ox.ac.uk/outreach/theatre/Lysistrata.asp

And in the spring there will be the Cambridge greek play and the Kings college London greek play: all, I can say from personal experience, amazing. If you can afford it, a family holiday in Rome might be the thing- we used our airmiles when we went and they paid for the flight and hotel!

I wish your DD luck with the knitting and Dr Who but ultimately they wont be the reason she gets an offer. I don't think you should worry about her not socialising; there is plenty of time for her to spread her wings when she is older.

the outreach person whose talk I attended was quite clear that Cambridge was happy to have geeks and really were not that interested in the rest. The same comment was made by two professors (although not in classics) of other respected universities. They do like something subject related to demonstrate interest beyond the curriculum.

DD1's best friend is studying Classics at Cambridge. Based on what she's said, you might want to get your daughter to check the details of the course very carefully -- the friend did not have Latin or Greek at A level, so is on a 4 year course and is now in her second year. For the interview, she did a test which involved learning the principles of an (invented) language and then answering questions about it.

She then had to do a week long residential summer school before starting at Cambridge (Latin) and did a second week long summer school (Greek) this year before going back to second year. She's quite the party animal, and found the first course a bit of a pain because she didn't know anyone. (The students on it were not exclusively from Cambridge -- in fact, many were 'geeks' who just loved the subject, including someone who'd come all the way from Texas! )

In her first year, there were only 8 students in the whole university doing what she did, and most of the teaching was 1 to 1 language learning stuff, so she didn't have much contact with them (ie there weren't many lectures). As a result, a lot of her learning was self-directed, which doesnt' sound like a problem for your daughter, but DD's friend found it a bit lonely. However, she got a first in her end of year exams, so clearly managing OK. In the second year, the number of students expands because it includes students who are in the first year of a 3 year course as they already have sufficient Latin and Greek to cope.

Also, would emphasise that going to Cambridge is not quite like going to Leeds (or wherever) because the question of which college you join does have a big influence on your time there. My DS is at Cambridge and picked his college by reading lots of reviews (The STudent room website; unofficial university guides etc) and loves, loves it and everyone in it. DD's Classics friend ended up being pooled (system at Cambridge where you are allocated a college by the university) and wound up at the only remaining all girls' college which doesn't really suit her personality.

So would say encourage your daughter to read up on Cambnridge colleges. They all have distinct characteristics, and she needs to feel happy with the ethos -- go on an open day and look around and you will be amazed at how quickly you can get a feel for each one, just by seeing how they run the day, who's manning the information stall, what kinds of posters are put up around the place etc.

Thank you funnyperson, Ellisbell & Ancient&modern

Lots of good advice again . We are hoping to get down to visit asap & have a look round so she can get an idea of the choices available.

I went round several Oxford colleges back in August when visiting, just to nosey round. I was very impressed by the atmosphere & character each had & that will be the same at Cambridge I'm sure.

Dear OP if you get to go round usually you can only fit in about 5 or so colleges and at Cambridge there are 31!

Tsr has info, and you can request the prospectuses free from the colleges, which can be fun esp as they provide a little insert on the subject admissions criteria

this is quite an easy site to help choose
oxbridgecolleges.com/main.php?select_uni=Cambridge&select_college=Girton+College

All this will help make a short list beforehand

I heard on the grapevine that its best to choose a college and not make an open application and it could be better to choose one where the chance of pooling is not that high because pooling can be vv stressful

Incidentally you don't say how well you get on with your DD but its important that the college she applies to is the one she chooses, not the one you/dh like - they may be the same, of course!

We ended up going round a small one, a big one, a popular, a not so popular and a random. DS went round twice: once with a friend and once with me -it was a bonding experience! You can sometimes ring up before hand for dd to go and have lunch there if there is one she particularly likes.

Take it easy btw as getting in is never certain so try and give equal weight to looking at other universities.

Also its hard to say this but just a little word of caution- choosing a college is the most fun bit and so it should be because they are all amazing, but my sister's two DC didn't get into Cambridge ( her dh is a Cambridge languages grad) and she said afterwards that she wished they hadn't fallen in love with the idea of the Cambridge colleges quite so much and indeed for her second child they were much more laid back about the whole Cambridge idea. It is only one of the 5 ucas options.

She sounds absolutely fine socially! Cambridge is full of interesting unusual people.

Classics will be very hard work if she doesn't have any Latin or Greek yet, and (unless things have changed since my time) there is no separate linguistics degree, it's part of Classics or Modern and Mediaeval Languages. If she is seriously keen she'd be advised to start a bit of Latin asap and see how she gets on with it.

I'm echoing everyone else. Don't worry about the lack of hobbies but do look at her a-level choices. However, I disagree with the advice to go for a small college - she's actually more likely to find a friendship group she fits in with at a big college. At a small college she'll have to go out and search for friends a bit more.

Things might have changed in the 10 years since my day, but (assumming we're talking Cam) I'd recommend Trinity (and I didn't go there). It's the richest and so has the most scholarships available! Plus very pleasantly fully of 'geeks'.

I think Cam can be a very good experience for someone like your daughter as there will (almost definately) be people brighter than her there and that's quite a good learning experience. That said, please be careful with expectations as there is no guarantee she'll get in unless she is actually genius level. I have some very bright friends who fluffed the interview. I always thought there were some people for whom getting in was a no-brainer (not including myself in this category) and then a much wider-pool of 'cabable of getting in' and because of the limted places it was often down to luck on the day who actually got in out of that lot.

As someone who genuinely prefers to teach geeks I'm sure your DD will be fine. My university is overseas and open access so very mixed ability, however the ones who do best are always the ones with a genuine interest in the subject which doesn't come from seeing the degree as a means to an end or a new and interesting way to socialise.

Perhaps your DD could look at the OU for Latin or Greek courses? That would definitely show commitment to her subject and give her a headstart over those who haven't done classical languages already. Reading Classical Latin is a 30 point course which assumes no knowledge of Latin. It's at a level equivalent to second year undergraduate study but, having done one degree at an RG uni and then taken OU courses for fun in subjects I haven't studied since GCSE level 2 is manageable if you are bright, committed and manage your time well although it does move fast and they expect your to have developed some skills such as essay writing through level 1 courses.

she sounds lovely the way she is, really. She has friends who you like, she is creative, she works hard because she wants to. Be thankful for all that.

I know you said she has not made up her mind yet which subject she would like to study but if it is classics, I would suggest getting started on Latin (if time permits). Good luck.

I don't think you need to worry. She sounds super confident and really nice. Please don't tell her she has to change. That would be such a shame.

She has her own social niche, she is happy, it's not about 'effort' - she's just different to how you expected perhaps?

If I were you I would be so, so proud and pleased with her, I want a child like her, but I am afraid I may end up with the other sort of teenager...

Please just support her to be who she is. Canbridge was built for geeks btw...she sounds just like my sister who went to Girton. (Eng)

Try and go in term time Bossy, August isn't the same.

I echo funnyperson and the need to be as laid back as possible. I'd add a note of caution about colleges too: the Cambridge pool can skew the best laid plans and at Oxford there's increasing centralisation, even in the Arts. Even very strong candidates who don't use the Open Application process may find themselves re-directed to another Oxford college before interview, so be laid back about that too! The bursary schemes at both universities will take care of all students from low income families so the size of the college endowment matters less now than it did - except for details like recessed lighting in bathrooms and duvets made up on arrival!

Try and visit other good and pretty universities too.

Good advice about colleges - it's difficult because on the one hand I think it's good to feel you have chosen yourself (my school chose my undergrad college for me and I never really got on with it); but on the other hand the very great majority of undergrads will tell you theirs is the best college, regardless of how they ended up there and whether they had originally chosen it. And it's true that there's quite a high chance of getting in but not to the college you put down so it's good to feel a bit flexible about it.

I think college choice actually matters more if she is considering the four year programme for classics - as mentioned above, it's a small cohort, and while most colleges say they accept for it, some tutors are actively keen and others would rather avoid (it does create more work as most colleges will only have one person in a year doing it, at most). So definitely worth checking the college's actual record of admissions for the four year course. A handful of colleges are quite keen - e.g. Girton, Trinity Hall, in both of which it is currently well supported. If she could get Latin to A level and just start Greek there she'll be in the same boat as lots of others and the college choice is less important.

As a student mentor, Bossy?s DD sounds to me like a great Cambridge applicant, but to get a place she first needs to be clear about the course she?s aiming for. That means spending quite a lot of time on the university?s course website. Once she?s found her dream course, it?s important to expand her subject-related knowledge well beyond school level. Her form teacher, the local librarian or the Cambridge department?s secretary will be able to suggest books. Lectures, summer schools and specialist sites will broaden her mind. I tweet suggestions on how to further expand your knowledge base @oxbridgentrance and the girl might like to follow up some of those. Much of this work, incidentally, qualifies as extra-curricular activities. It?s worth listing a couple of those on your UCAS form, but they need not involve socialising or sport!

I'm interested in what you mean by a 'student mentor' unimother, could you explain?