Support thread for anyone applying through UCAS this year

[Lorelai]

Following on from a thread in chat I thought I would start this so that we can hold each others' hands through the UCAS process with all its challenges.

Who's with me?

I think Admissions Tutors respond well to straightforward PS's which sound genuine and unforced eatyourveg. Tbh, unctuous protestations of intellectual connection with the subject will probably turn them right off. My three so far have kept their PS's simple and direct; Medicine is uncharted territory but DS's PS is also no frills (we should see soon if he's bungled).

I think you can pay to see the school reference if you want to. Some schools show them to those asked to interview just so that they know what's been said and what questions might possibly come up as a result.

At my DCs school everyone is shown the reference before its sent off.

DD has just about finished her PS. Our school is wanting to get everything in before half term, so she is on track.

She sent it into an expert who described her first draft as good but could be much better, so that was promising. A couple of teachers have also given advice so she had 3 opinions to take on board when redrafting it. It got a bit complicated but I would describe it as 'very good' now.

does anyone know about midwifery apps? I'm appling as a mature access student and the PS bit is making my head spin.

Does that seem to cause problems webwiz? I've come across parents who want to know exactly what's said and why.

MissIng a friend has just started on her Midwifery course as a mature access student after being a wild child, travelling and doing several years work as a beauty therapist.

I think it's the same as for the young ones. Why do you want to do it and what in your experience has helped you come to that decision/ could be useful?

I wasn't aware of any problems yellowstone - before UCAS forms went in both my DD's had a short interview with the head of sixth form to make sure everything had been completed and they were allowed to read through their references. Neither of mine could remember much about what had been written other than "it was quite good"!

References: Fair enough to know what is in the reference, especially if you are called to interview. BUT if the student gets to read it word for word then surely a referee possibly might not be totally honest and then that defeats the purpose of a reference.

Well you can pay to see the reference so even if it wasn't school policy to show it to pupils they can still see it of they really want to. I would have though the reference tries to put a positive spin on everything anyway.

the reference is important to my child's future so I shall be paying my 10 pounds and finding out what was said. A school is unlikely to be so stupid that they submit a bad reference but it is possible to write one that sounds acceptable but isn't.

At our school the children are given some idea of what was said but few young people are sufficiently adept to realise the implications even if they were allowed to read a reference.

DD says her school will let them look at the reference if they want to.

UCAS automatically links to UKCAT.

When applying medical schools don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Don't rely on a good BMAT score (the result comes out after the UCAS form is done).
Don't apply only to ones that don't require UKCAT unless the GCSEs are spectacular - lots and lots of A*s. (e.g. Bristol, Birmingham.)
Don't be too picky. Be grateful for a place in any medical school.

There are four choices to make so apply to ones which are looking for your particular strengths. Do the UKCAT test before deciding which to apply to - it isn't always a deal-breaker but it extends your range of choice.

unitarian some medical schools are better than others and I think it is fine to be picky- but picky not just to choose those with the best teaching, it is also important to be picky about choosing medical schools in a geographical area and with an ambience which DC will be happy with for five or six years. Some DC prefer urban, some prefer rural settings and some prefer a university in a campus and others in a town. Its also worth checking out which hospitals the clinical students get sent to.
The teaching at the best medical schools is outstanding and in preclinical years cannot be matched by the lesser ones. The clinical teaching at the best medical schools is also good, but the differences at this stage are not great, in fact some of the newer schools such as Keele etc offer better clinical teaching opportunities for students because there are more patients, the medical students are welcome and the consultants are younger. Or so I hear.

funnyperson which four medical schools would you choose for yourself if you were applying for 2012?

Medicine is a new direction in our family and DS1 has changed his choices, conscious that too many eggs were together in a basket.

His application has gone in, but it would be interesting to know what seasoned medics would go for themselves, with the wisdom of hindsight.

yellowstone
Oxford
UCL
Imperial
Keele
Cornwall

others I would v strongly think about if it were me are Nottingham, Cambridge, Sussex
Sheffield Newcastle Bristol and St Andrews all have good reputations.

St Georges is nice

Where did he apply?

I agree that there should be an element of personal choice based on geography and circumstances and the length of time spent in the place - St Andews is a hell of a long haul from here, for example, although it is highly regarded but wouldn't be on our radar.

But the point I was making (badly) is that in the 4 choices one should try to ensure that one comes out of the process with a place at a medical school. Hence the need to play to your strengths and not waste one of those choices.
For example, if you are invited to an interview at Leicester you have a 25% chance of getting an offer afterwards. At Manchester, Leeds and others you have a 75% chance of an offer. So don't apply to Leicester if you are likely to be a weak interviewee. I have also heard that Soton and Edinburgh don't interview many of the candidates they make offers to, though I don't have first hand evidence for this.
Leeds assesses candidates on a points system, awarding points for academic success, extracurriculars, work experience etc and then works down the list when inviting for interview. It uses the UKCAT score as a tie breaker.
Sheffield and others work out a UKCAT cut off point and reject those below that.
Bristol and Birmingham cull by GCSE A*s.

DD began by looking at places she would like to live in for a long time and paid particular attention to the opportunities to pursue her extracurricular interest, ruled out the GCSE A choosers because she only had 6As, ruled out those which had been tricky to travel to for open days, ruled out those where the clinical work might be done in places she didn't fancy (e.g. York/Hull), got a good UKCAT score so narrowed down the list to include 2 that valued UKCAT highly - and crossed out the one nearest home! Then she included 2 BMAT schools (this was risky).
She was invited to 3 interviews which she went to with reasonable expectation of success and got three offers. She is exactly where she wanted to be all along but she had a perfectly respectable insurance offer at a RG university.
She had played to her strengths but started by looking at a wide field and narrowing down, rather than focussing on one only and making poor decisions about the other 3.

The way the course is taught is also significant but DD didn't pay much attention to that. In retrospect, she should have though it turned out well as the uni that didn't interview her has a course structure that she would have hated.

Some do a lot of academic work before allowing students near patients, others have a large amount of PBL - Problem Based Learning - which involves a self-directed research and group work. Students who thrive on being directed and studying solo seem to dislike PBL. These med schools now tend to to play it down in prospectuses as a result of negative student feedback but it is still there. Most have some PBL though.

This medical info is very helpful, though I think DS1 will be the only one of mine ever to apply :(

He thought hard about the UKCAT a fortnight ago but decided that doing it on a whim wasn't sensible, since he felt he wouldn't change his choices to a UKCAT uni in any event. Geography and environment did play a part, as did the hospitals the clinical students go on to. And three BMATs looked mad, though he'd have liked to put UCL.

Anyhow, the form is with the unis and acknowledgement e-mails are trickling through.

In the end he put down Oxford, Imperial, Birmingham and Bristol funnyperson, so he's not too far from your list. He says he'll try for places he'd really like this year and adjust next year is he's told no by all four. There's no fee imperative for him, so it's an option.

I notice Birmingham didn't feature on your list? It seems to take lots from his school so that encouraged him apart from anything else.

Yellowstone, may I ask why he chose Oxford rather than Cambridge, given that he had amazing module scores?

yellowstone two of his choices are the same as DD's.

Birmingham interviews early so he could be in the fortunate position my niece was in which is to arrive for an Oxford interview with a B'ham offer already in the bag. This is a huge confidence booster.

Imperial takes forever and you won't hear from there until at least February and interviews go on through March, even into April. Interviews are very relaxed and friendly despite a rather abrupt correspondence style.

Y13 is hell!

unitarian but an early rejection worries me. It's useful to know about the wait and I'll tell him not to read anything into Imperial's brusque manner.

wolf yes he's been pretty steady so far in exams. I really don't know. He says he prefers the idea of Oxford, that's all (articulate ?). It's fair to say that Cambridge doesn't make it easy for students living a long way away to visit for Open Days in the way that Oxford does. The Sutton Trust summer school works for certain students from certain schools but apart from that they're on their own with accomodation, because from where we are it couldn't be done in a day. Oxford generally seemed more welcoming, on their web site too - Cambridge does seem a little forbidding.

yellowstone DD got one rejection and it was the first one, though not her first choice. It did blight her mood for almost three months, especially as many of her friends had non-medical offers by then and were already discussing their accommodation. Depression began to set in though she was briefly buoyed up by a swift and very do-able offer with scholarship from her 5th choice, a Biochem degree at a RG uni. It helped her to keep her head up.

In early December she got an invitation to an interview but it was for two months (!) ahead, after A level modules, so the atmosphere was very tense indeed. She went nervously but got an offer of AAB. This was Feb 2010 and we were still snowed up until the day before! We dug a lot of snow......

Meanwhile it was dawning on us that the other two would have rejected her already if they were going to so there was still room for hope as she liked these better but we happily sussed out accommodation for the one she had the offer for. She knew then that she had a place at med school so long as she didn't screw up badly in the final exams but she was now able to concentrate fully on studying.

Then the second interview came up (March) and she went quite confidently with one in the bag and knew there was a 75% chance of an offer She came home quietly confident and the offer came through after 5 or 6 days - AAA. This was the one she wanted really badly. She worked even harder.

Then the third one invited her for interview and by then she was so laid back that she just breezed in and breezed out. An astounding offer of AB was made by e-mail before she'd even got back to the station to come home.
She therefore rejected the first offer, made AAA her firm and kept the AB as insurance. She worked like mad, exceeded her firm offer and is as happy as a pig in poo.

It was a very long, roller-coaster year! Brace yourself.

She commented that a great deal of fazing went on in interview waiting rooms - people swanking about their connections, how fantastic their work experience is, how wonderfully brilliant their exam results are........

I'm even more braced than I was before unitarian! That sort of anatomy of an applicant's progress is extremely interesting to me, I'm so glad it turned out so well. I've watched the misery of several high fliers rejected in the past couple of years so I'm very aware that DS could end up with four noes. Very impressive to get that e-mail chasing her home.

The fazing bit I like. I think DS would be inclined to do reverse fazing, with the intention of making the cocky ones think more than ever that they had it all sewn up! I hope the tutors thoroughly dislike the cocky ones; not a great doctorly attribute I shouldn't have thought.