Parent of oxbridge candidate-peersupportneeded

[funnyperson]

OK so my DD is applying to Oxford for entry in 2011 and has a 75% chance of getting rejected so I am told by the Oxford website so I reckon a new thread would be helpful for us parents who may end up with joy or grief but in any event need to keep sane enough to support our loved ones. Any tips on maximising chances of success at this stage?

Oooh, congratulations everyone! Good luck to your DCs with their exams.

Peteneras I am very surprised to read your comments. Maybe DD is lucky in her choice of friends but in her second year at Christchurch she remains firm friends back home with all her London friends from school days, some went to Oxford, some to Cambridge, most elsewhere. She had a party for her 21st in November at Oxford and as well as her Oxford friends boys and girls travelled from Glasgow and Bristol and Leeds and Manchester and London to join in and , everyone mixed with everyone else.

Equally while I am disappointed that DS didn't get an offer I don't begrudge those that did (and neither does he, difficult though it must be for him to see friends there who have done less well in exams than he has over the past few years) - he gets that it isn't just down to academic performance)...

It never even occurred to me that friends would be lost because of an Oxbridge place ....blimey....I wouldn't worry at all funnyp. Your sisters response was odd - maybe within families, if there are similar age children, there is jealousy?

Back to the gift wrapping....

It also strikes me as very odd that friends may be lost over Oxbridge admissions. Probably there will be some classmates who lose touch - who's honestly in touch with everyone they went to school with? - but friends? Surely not. I didn't apply to Oxbridge for undergrad, I wanted to be where I am now, but lots of my friends are at Oxford or Cambridge, and lots are at other places. Some people got in to their first choices, some didn't, but it didn't cause any bitterness or resentment among any of us. I don't think that's anything to worry about, really.

I agree with kitty and holly. DSs friends have been very pleased for him. He has good friends who did not get places but they all knew the deal when they applied and as I said before you have to approach it with some sense of maturity. We know perfectly well that there are kids in his year who could have easily got in and didn't even apply. He also has a cousin in the same year at school and there has never been anything other than support for each other and between me and my bro/sis in law. To be honest they have different strengths and weaknesses and come together on the rugby field.
I also don't think anyone has to temper their celebrations with thinking too hard about getting the grades at this stage.FGS let them enjoy getting in!!!!
holly - it sounds like you have a great approach to the whole thing and I'm sure your DS will be very successful wherever he goes. Which is his number one choice now?
ponders - let us know how your DS got on - hope the post came for you today...

Tis a bit strange about success or rejection with oxbridge. My niece and nephew both applied (different families) Out of the two he is by far the brightest and most academic, guess who got accepted. One difference is that she is at private school so has had all the backing, preparation and the confidence boosters - he has had to do it all himself.

I agree with you all about the friend thing.
I'm not sure about the sibling thing.
How inarticulate is that.

letter still didn't come today so he rang admissions but the relevant person is off sick.

However he logged on this evening to find an email which they have now decided to send to all (I bet he wasn't the only one ringing up saying "where's my letter???" ) and, as anticipated, it's a no.

He genuinely doesn't mind though, luckily.

But in the light of both his & fififi's DS's experiences at interview, I think I'd advise PPE applicants to avoid St Peter's in future

Thanks, betelguese

He has achievable offers of AAB from both York & Sheffield & would be happy to go to either of those. Still waiting on LSE (not optimistic there though, they are pickier than Oxford from what I've heard!)

He does still have the option of making a 5th choice before 15th Jan. I'll get him to give it some thought over Christmas.

About the friend/sibling thing, well, I must say either you?re all incredibly lucky to have such wonderful and gracious friends or I?m just staggeringly unlucky to have friend(s) of many years - mainly with children?s education as our common interest; get invited to their posh houses (Hampstead Garden Suburb) for Christmas/New Year?s Eve parties; introduced to their friends with high-flying jobs who drive 4X4?s and Mercs with children going to private schools and/or top state schools etc.

Insofar as my kids stay put at the local run down state school and I remain as polite and courteous as ever, then yes, I am their good ?friend?.

But, the very moment they hear (through 3rd parties) my DS is going to one of the world?s most famous schools, I?m now suddenly their enemy. One particular person wouldn?t even want to look me in the eye and utterly refused to talk to me. Like a fool and completely unbeknown to me, I didn?t understand why, maybe she didn?t see or hear me, I thought to myself, and so I kept engaging her in conversation (like normal). Finally, when she did talk, her first words were, ?So you?re going to (school name withheld)??

This followed with a string of particularly nasty and frightening stories why I shouldn?t send DS to that school. The attack was unrelenting and there was one moment when I thought I better give up the offer of a place in this school. And thank God I didn't.

Fp your sister who ?spent an hour and a half? dissuading you from Oxford brought back exactly floods of memories of my experience. I'm thinking to myself, why spend 90 mins talking you out of it whilst 5 mins of encouragement would do a power of good?? We're not talking about the University of Timbuktu here. I didn?t give you my advice for nothing.

Holly:
?Your sisters response was odd - maybe within families, if there are similar age children, there is jealousy?

You hit the nail on the head. JEALOUSY is the issue - pure and simple! And not necessarily with similar age children. My Hampstead Gdn Sub. ?friend?s? children were not even the same age as my DS ? they were younger. I hasten to add, generally speaking the kids themselves are not a problem. It's the adults.

And now the big irony: Many months later, my phone rang and at the other end of the line was this woman?s husband. He wanted to know the in?s and out?s and the best chances of securing a place at my DS?s ?nasty? school. Believe me, hand on heart, I advised him genuinely but I guess the ?nasty? school can see through the family and knows better. Last I heard was that they settled for a relatively deprived school*

• Apologies to all other parents and kids of MTS ? nothing personal here, just my way of getting my pound of flesh back. Merry Christmas!

Ponders this is crap. I was hoping that both you and Ififi's son would get in and there would be an internet sprite materialisation at The Turf or whatever it was called.
No disrespect to admissions tutors but I worry about quiet boys. Although PPE is one of the most competitive courses which -so they say-favours the extroverts, and is also hard to prepare for. I do know a quiet Physicist who was happy at St Peters. I really don't see why it is so important for PPE ists to be so very outgoing because surely it is more important to have reflective intelligent strategists? Anyway many commiserations-lots of hugs and a very very nice glass of wine.

York is fabulous with the minster, very pretty town, and lovely campus, especially in the Spring, when all the daffs come out, and you can walk round the walls and very well respected so good job prospects. Excellent law school. DD wanted to go there very much but hasn't heard from them so Sussex is her insurance atm.

Peteneras and Holly you are right though it has taken me half a century to realise that all this 'advice' is actually jealousy and so I had no armour. I wish I had realised a long time ago as I would have been less hurt by her and also better prepared for similar responses in the wider world. I guess I love her so much it never occurred to me she wouldn't be happy if I was happy. I really want my nephew to get an offer from Cambridge- I don't want to undermine him at all.

It still surprises me how strong/firm one has to be of spirit to cope with life. I don't mean that in a depressed way or a childish way but just the frequency with which the absolute importance of love and loyalty and truth and friendship over material pain or gain needs reiterating in the soul. Note the very early hour.

Hi, Ponders and funnyp. Speaking with my hat on as the other side of the desk evilbitch person, we're horribly aware that interviews don't suit everyone. We always try to think about disparities between interview performance and paper performances, and to be conscious of factors beyond interview. (I also try hard not to be charmed....) That said, our problem lies in picking between very very qualified people, people whose paper scores are nearly identical.

I'm really sorry your son missed out, Ponders. I wonder if you and other people whose dcs have missed out have thought of reapplying next year? We quite often take people we've turned down (this year, for example, we took one). A good plan if your son/daughter is disappointed and upset is to write to the interviewing tutor and ask where they came; all Ox colleges give people an exact ranking. Then you could ask how near the miss was. If people come in the top - say 20-30% it's really really worth having another try, maybe at a different college. Do message me privately if you'd like more advice.

Oh I'm sorry Ponders - I was looking forward to meeting you! York is a great uni and wonderful city too and I'm sure your DS will get the grades (not really about that though is it??). I just think it's the luck of the draw I really do!

Crikey Peteneras you poor thing. You must really be in mother mafia land! I'm not so naive to think all this doesn't go on but tend to avoid school parents - always have done, always will do... I have a few good friends from my 3 DC schools but those have taken a long time to mature. As everyone commutes to at least 6 different state schools here I think all this competition is diluted.

Have a lovely Christmas all...

Oh sorry to hear that Ponders, sounds like our boys just didn't gel with the interviewing panel (nothing personal if it was you sieglinde!)...

Trying again not a real option for my DS - his was a post A level application.

Oh, I will miss this club - thank you all

peteneras, I do hope - as I inferred from your post anyway - that it is friends-of-friends rather than actual friends (or "friends") who are so unpleasant about your children's education??? (Also hope you have some good friends, who are not Hampstead Garden Suburb types!)

We went to DS's prize-giving last night & a boy there was announced to have just received an offer from New for PPE; DS says he is very chatty & outgoing, so obviously an ideal interview candidate! sieglinde, thanks for your thoughts & advice, I can't imagine how hard it must be for you to make such assessments in the space of barely 30 minutes. As fififi (Holly) says our boys just didn't gel, & I know DS never comes across well in formal situations with new people; he ums & ers & fidgets.

I looked at the LSE website this morning; they admit 20 from 450 applicants so I think we'll write that one off right now!

If he chooses York I will be delighted, but suspect he's more likely to go for Sheffield because it's a bigger city. He didn't even consider applying to Durham because "it's too small & has no McDonalds" (the McD's bit was tongue-in-cheek of course...)

fififi, I'm sure with those grades your son will get offers from his second choices - I just hope it's soon!

Anyway I hope you all enjoy a lovely Christmas with your families & good luck to everybody with their exams in the summer - maybe we should reconvene on 18th August...

(I am very sorry though not to be able attend an Internet Sprite Rally in the Turf - that would have been fun - we could have had badges & everything!)

Sorry to hear about your DSs Ponders and Fifi, I was looking forward to meeting them. As others have said, being at Oxford isn't the be all and end all (as many Oxford staff could tell you).

FWIW St Peter's was rather swamped with PPE applicants this year, and so failure means nothing in the grand scheme of things. It is really hard to choose and decisions are not made beforehand (although we read the UCAS forms and they influence the decisions).

I had nothing to do with the interviews your sons were in, but I do know from experience that the lacklustre interviews in philosophy often result in the applicants not getting what is being asked (ie not realising that there is an issue, or that someone could disagree with their own views). We have to be gentle with this these days or we end up in the tabloids, so sometimes we just seem uninterested when that's very far from the case. Interview marks go to the applicants who go 'Hang on, what I'm telling you might be completely wrong... Now how or why would someone disagree?' You should never trust a philosophy interviewer to be talking sense.

(I now realise that I am a bad person for not putting that at the top of the thread.)

Good luck to your DCs wherever they go.

Sielglinde admissions tutors have a difficult job at Oxford and do well to interview so many. It is interesting what you say about the exact ranking though. Is this a ranking by entrance exam (TSA) results or by faculty or by college? Does such a ranking apply just to your faculty or its it the same for all?
Last year DS asked for feedback and didn't get it - we were asked by the college to ask the school to ask (if that makes sense), which we did, and we still don't know what feedback was given to the school. I did speak nicely on the phone to the admissions co ordinator for the faculty who was much more informative- gave us DS exact entrance exam scores, and the centile they were on, and the grading from both his interviews, but no ranking. He was 97th centile on his entrance test and 'passed' his university /faculty interview but not the college interview. He had other good offers and chose not to reapply to Oxford but I was always concerned that we didn't have enough information to know whether a reapplication would have had any realistic chance. I could never understand why it was that if he passed the university interview but not the college interview another college didn't interview him.
Anyway DS stopped wanting to go there after his rejection so I didn't pursue it and it was all out of time anyway. He is very happy in London.
I think if there is a ranking and scoring it would be helpful to share this with candidates with the rejection letter. But that is just my opinion.

TBH Ponders - your DS sounds great. We don't care about chatty and outgoing; fidgetting and erring is fine (we do try to take nerves into account when scoring). Sheffield, York and UCl are all good for philosophy.

TBH I don't think a general ranking of all candidates would be much use, but I do agree that more feedback would be good. Quite often I want to give feedback to candidates I liked and who didn't get in (who could do with a boost) but it is the school's job to ask, so I can't. A lot of arguing goes on behind the scenes about who to take.