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Guest Post: "Mumsnet was the first safe place I had to realise my own agency - now I am campaigning to end forced marriage"

84 replies

JuliaMumsnet · 08/03/2021 12:49

Yehudis Fletcher and Eve Sacks on their journey to co-founding Nahamu, which seeks to raise awareness and challenge forced marriage in the Jewish community.

Eve speaks

In Pixar’s Brave, the heroine is Princess Merida, and the film’s protagonist is her mother, Queen Elinor, who is forcing her to get married. Under UK law, you have the right to choose who you marry, when you marry or if you marry at all. Forced marriage is when you face physical pressure to marry (for example, threats, physical violence or sexual violence) or emotional and psychological pressure (e.g. if you’re made to feel like you’re bringing shame on your family). Merida’s mother applies emotional pressure, saying she will let down her clan by not following the tradition. Watching Brave whilst I was researching and writing a paper on forced marriage, meant it was obvious to me that the arrangements for Merida would be criminal under UK law.

The crux of the forced marriage issue for me is the question - should religious parents be allowed to bring their children up in a closed system whereby all young people marry someone chosen by their parents, and where no other options are ever observed or presented?
I did not grow up in an insular community. When I was a teenager in Glasgow my friends were from a range of backgrounds, including traditional Jews like myself. But I had a glimpse into a more insular Jewish community as I knew some Charedi (Ultra-Orthodox Jewish) girls. These girls were home-schooled and did not mix with anyone outside their very small group (of around Charedi 10 families).

I attended a Sunday school with these girls. However, there was no opportunity to chat. There was a real but unspoken rule that we could not engage in open conversations, and the teacher was always present. The atmosphere was austere. We sat at the teacher’s large dining room table. We translated the Torah (Pentateuch) from biblical Hebrew into English.

When I was 16, one of the girls, a year older than me, got engaged to a young man she met once, just briefly, the first young man she had met. She would not see him again before the wedding. She was not allowed to speak to him on the phone. After the wedding she would move to Antwerp, shave her head and presumably have a large family. At the time I was working hard towards my highers, and considering my future career, and so I struggled to understand why anyone would agree to marry someone they’d met once, just briefly. But I could see that she had happily agreed to it.

10 years later I had graduated from the University of Manchester and I was living in London working as a chartered accountant. By this point, Yehudis was sitting around the same dining room table with the same teacher, translating the Torah with her peers, Charedi Glaswegian girls, many of whom were the younger sisters of the girls I had studied with. The difference was that Yehudis had a much more isolated upbringing than mine. The classes I attended on a Sunday morning were the type she attended all week.

Yehudis speaks

When I was a child, my mother told me that we didn’t believe in feminism and that each gender had their role to play. I always expected I would get married at 18, and I did. I saw it as my only route to adulthood, independence, and autonomy. I had no real idea what any of those words meant.

We are brought up from early childhood to marry the first person our parents suggest, and most of us go through with it without any question - because that is all we know. In my community, school books are redacted to ensure that any references to other ways of thinking are removed, public libraries are seen as dangerous and the internet is banned. We tend to only attend insular community schools, although some of these are state-funded, the curriculum is often restricted and Charedi children don’t mix with anyone different. There is no sex and relationship education until after young people are already engaged, so many don’t even think to question the matchmaking process. We are socialised to expect to marry someone we meet once. This is compounded by the huge emphasis on female modesty and gender segregation - so meeting more than ‘necessary’ is often considered immodest. No physical force is needed, but this is still a forced marriage.

In 2010, I was 22, married, and living in Edgware, North London. My son was a toddler and I was pregnant with my daughter. I discovered Mumsnet, where I was welcomed but also given a quick and brutal schooling in how the big wide world functioned. In one of my first posts, I asked for advice on how to manage my son’s diet, as he would only eat Shreddies. I regretted that one quickly! The constructs of intense othering that I had grown up with led me to quickly move on to confronting my own prejudices - Mumsnetters made quick work of my thread asking about the best way to ask for a white midwife.

Finally I asked ‘Does anyone else feel a duty to have sex with their husband?’ The thread started off light-hearted until suddenly it wasn’t. There seemed to be an awareness that this was an awakening for me.

It took years to get from that point to where I am now, having founded Nahamu and campaigning against forced marriage in my community, but I see Mumsnet as the first safe place I had to play with ideas and safely explore my curiosity.

Forced marriage, along with the other details of my life that I have shared, are often seen as faith-based or cultural practices. There is a nervousness in talking about it. Gatekeepers will try and deny there are any problems. We know that our community is far from the only one dealing with these issues. That is why we worked with the National Commission on Forced Marriage UK to raise awareness and why we wrote to the FMU asking for young people in our community to receive the same protection as other young people at risk of forced marriage. As the co-founders of Nahamu and authors of the first paper to address forced marriage in the Jewish community, we insist that young people, of every culture and faith, must have autonomy over who to marry, when to marry or whether to marry at all.

By Yehudis Fletcher and Eve Sacks.
Eve tweets at @EveSacks, Yehudis at @YehudisFletcher, and the Nahamu Project twitter handle is @PNahamu

From MNHQ: Eve and Yehudis have written this resource page on forced marriage for us, please take a look and share widely.

Eve and Yehudis will be returning to this thread to answer your questions for one hour on the 10th March at 10am, so if you have questions for them, leave them below.

Guest Post: "Mumsnet was the first safe place I had to realise my own agency - now I am campaigning to end forced marriage"
OP posts:
Franksalot · 15/03/2021 13:33

The background to Leah Vincent calling themselves Jacob is interesting, as there does seem to be (anecdotally) a growing transgender movement within the Jewish Community.I wonder if this is due to the strict gender expectations and a way of escaping these. Or if it is also due to an upbringing of not being able to listen to our inner voice.

Xenia · 15/03/2021 14:37

I think this is one of the most interesting topics on mumsnet. I was playing devil's advocate above in saying children tend to do better with married parents and my borough having very few divorces and more stability. However I agree that that can lead to children living in unhappy homes. I have tried to let my children be open to all ideas to such an extent my son became a postman after university and lives a very different life from the one for which he was brought up (private school, academic - not even taking a low paid middle class suitable job like artist or journalist, but deliberately "blue collar" work) so in a sense against the family ethos because of the freedom of thought I let him have. We all vote different ways (although all voted remain) and sometimes I envy parents who seem to produce clones of themselves - must make life easier.

Any of these topics is worth a thread of itself. Marriage. Education etc. Probably most of us agree with being against forced marriage and most do not want even pressure on someone to marry the parents' choice although I also agree that if your child comes home with a deranged drug addict who has never done a day's work in his life or someone who is 95 any parent of sense would be against that. Some parental guidance is side. On education - we allow a lot of choice in the UK from our local hindu state primary school, state boarding schools, public boarding and day schools, fundamentalist saudi but UK based boarding school, schools like summerhill where the pupils have total freedom and don't have to go into class, residential m usic boarding schools where you play many hours of music a day, cathedral choir schools for young boys and all sorts and home schooling.

All those educational choices are in a sense a parent putting a child into an environment and making their choice for that child. We allow that as we do allow attendance at religious services where boys and girls are kept apart and indeed we allow in the UK families to have a housewife presenting a picture to children that women serve and men earn (I always worked full time).

Anyway very good debate particularly in our current cancel culture when sometimes unless you have the one right view (which at times seems almost as extreme as the worst of cults) you are cast asunder by the mainstream and seen as other and wrong.

Xenia · 15/03/2021 14:39

(I am watching all the seasons of The Americans at the moment on Prime. That in a sense shows the clash of cultures between very soviet Russian and USA and who is right capitalism or marxism and how families can hold extremely different views or stop a child having the views of the host culture).

EveSacks · 15/03/2021 16:00

@PikesPeaked

No forum on a website with open access to all can ever be a 'safe space'. Post on anything even vaguely contentious to do with religion, and the thread gets derailed with claims of flying spaghetti monster/abuse/misogyny.

That said, I would welcome a Faith Communities topic that focused on non-Christian religions. The Religion/Philosophy topic doesn't work because it is very Christianocentric - unsurprisingly, as Christianity is the majority religion and has shaped the cultures of the countries of most MNers. But other perspectives exist and are worth exploring.

@PikesPeaked true won't be totally safe but less likely to get the "omg if you circumcise your son you are an abuser" type post.
EveSacks · 15/03/2021 16:03

@Socrates11

Thanks for the reading recommendations. I can't find kindle version of Leah Vincent's 'Cut Me Loose' yet, will be following this up with my local library. (Leah is currently calling themselves Jacob)

I did get the Shulem Deens book, 'All Who Go Do Not Return' (yet to read) and found this article from 2017 about it
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jun/10/shulem-deen-when-i-lost-god-i-lost-my-children-too

I appreciate this answer & it just makes me really sad that some parents think blanket coercion is the answer. As Deens says he was raised to believe questions are dangerous. This is harmful but some people still think it is acceptable in order to maintain tradition.
Freedom of belief, thought and religion is a qualified right, rather than an absolute one. So when someone’s religious actions would be harmful to others, then there is no right to harm others. Thus a denial of education or a forced marriage in the name of religious belief just doesn’t work

I'm now looking for a Sue Lloyd Roberts quote 'War on Women' where she puts a stick of dynamite under the word tradition, I may be some time lol.

@Socrates11

Try Deborah Feldman's "Unorthodox" in your library as alternative. Also Frimet Goldberger has online shoter articles which give insight.

EveSacks · 15/03/2021 16:13

@Franksalot

The background to Leah Vincent calling themselves Jacob is interesting, as there does seem to be (anecdotally) a growing transgender movement within the Jewish Community.I wonder if this is due to the strict gender expectations and a way of escaping these. Or if it is also due to an upbringing of not being able to listen to our inner voice.
@Franksalot that is curious and it was after they wrote the memior so I didn't realise, I read it around 2014, and the coming out looks very recent, yes I also wonder if the strict gender expectation makes a difference although its many many years since they left... suspect part of it is that as coming out becomes more socially acceptible (in society generally) more people who have struggled feel its safe to do so. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2546290/Orthodox-Jewish-woman-shunned-family-age-17-graduates-Harvard.html
Socrates11 · 15/03/2021 19:30

Thank you Eve, Unorthodox is a great book suggestion it looks excellent, I've just read the blurb & I'm raring to go. It's sold (on Amazon) as being like Ayaan Hirsi Ali's 'Infidel', another author who is so interesting to read (although not bought/read her latest 'Prey' yet).

ColdCottage · 15/03/2021 20:51

Well done ladies.

Franksalot · 24/03/2021 21:14

@YehudisFletcher just watched your live online debate with David Baddiel. Just wanted to say how you made so many interesting points that I hadn't really thought of, and so enjoyable to listen to too.

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