Yehudis Fletcher and Eve Sacks on their journey to co-founding Nahamu, which seeks to raise awareness and challenge forced marriage in the Jewish community.
Eve speaks
In Pixar’s Brave, the heroine is Princess Merida, and the film’s protagonist is her mother, Queen Elinor, who is forcing her to get married. Under UK law, you have the right to choose who you marry, when you marry or if you marry at all. Forced marriage is when you face physical pressure to marry (for example, threats, physical violence or sexual violence) or emotional and psychological pressure (e.g. if you’re made to feel like you’re bringing shame on your family). Merida’s mother applies emotional pressure, saying she will let down her clan by not following the tradition. Watching Brave whilst I was researching and writing a paper on forced marriage, meant it was obvious to me that the arrangements for Merida would be criminal under UK law.
The crux of the forced marriage issue for me is the question - should religious parents be allowed to bring their children up in a closed system whereby all young people marry someone chosen by their parents, and where no other options are ever observed or presented?
I did not grow up in an insular community. When I was a teenager in Glasgow my friends were from a range of backgrounds, including traditional Jews like myself. But I had a glimpse into a more insular Jewish community as I knew some Charedi (Ultra-Orthodox Jewish) girls. These girls were home-schooled and did not mix with anyone outside their very small group (of around Charedi 10 families).
I attended a Sunday school with these girls. However, there was no opportunity to chat. There was a real but unspoken rule that we could not engage in open conversations, and the teacher was always present. The atmosphere was austere. We sat at the teacher’s large dining room table. We translated the Torah (Pentateuch) from biblical Hebrew into English.
When I was 16, one of the girls, a year older than me, got engaged to a young man she met once, just briefly, the first young man she had met. She would not see him again before the wedding. She was not allowed to speak to him on the phone. After the wedding she would move to Antwerp, shave her head and presumably have a large family. At the time I was working hard towards my highers, and considering my future career, and so I struggled to understand why anyone would agree to marry someone they’d met once, just briefly. But I could see that she had happily agreed to it.
10 years later I had graduated from the University of Manchester and I was living in London working as a chartered accountant. By this point, Yehudis was sitting around the same dining room table with the same teacher, translating the Torah with her peers, Charedi Glaswegian girls, many of whom were the younger sisters of the girls I had studied with. The difference was that Yehudis had a much more isolated upbringing than mine. The classes I attended on a Sunday morning were the type she attended all week.
Yehudis speaks
When I was a child, my mother told me that we didn’t believe in feminism and that each gender had their role to play. I always expected I would get married at 18, and I did. I saw it as my only route to adulthood, independence, and autonomy. I had no real idea what any of those words meant.
We are brought up from early childhood to marry the first person our parents suggest, and most of us go through with it without any question - because that is all we know. In my community, school books are redacted to ensure that any references to other ways of thinking are removed, public libraries are seen as dangerous and the internet is banned. We tend to only attend insular community schools, although some of these are state-funded, the curriculum is often restricted and Charedi children don’t mix with anyone different. There is no sex and relationship education until after young people are already engaged, so many don’t even think to question the matchmaking process. We are socialised to expect to marry someone we meet once. This is compounded by the huge emphasis on female modesty and gender segregation - so meeting more than ‘necessary’ is often considered immodest. No physical force is needed, but this is still a forced marriage.
In 2010, I was 22, married, and living in Edgware, North London. My son was a toddler and I was pregnant with my daughter. I discovered Mumsnet, where I was welcomed but also given a quick and brutal schooling in how the big wide world functioned. In one of my first posts, I asked for advice on how to manage my son’s diet, as he would only eat Shreddies. I regretted that one quickly! The constructs of intense othering that I had grown up with led me to quickly move on to confronting my own prejudices - Mumsnetters made quick work of my thread asking about the best way to ask for a white midwife.
Finally I asked ‘Does anyone else feel a duty to have sex with their husband?’ The thread started off light-hearted until suddenly it wasn’t. There seemed to be an awareness that this was an awakening for me.
It took years to get from that point to where I am now, having founded Nahamu and campaigning against forced marriage in my community, but I see Mumsnet as the first safe place I had to play with ideas and safely explore my curiosity.
Forced marriage, along with the other details of my life that I have shared, are often seen as faith-based or cultural practices. There is a nervousness in talking about it. Gatekeepers will try and deny there are any problems. We know that our community is far from the only one dealing with these issues. That is why we worked with the National Commission on Forced Marriage UK to raise awareness and why we wrote to the FMU asking for young people in our community to receive the same protection as other young people at risk of forced marriage. As the co-founders of Nahamu and authors of the first paper to address forced marriage in the Jewish community, we insist that young people, of every culture and faith, must have autonomy over who to marry, when to marry or whether to marry at all.
By Yehudis Fletcher and Eve Sacks.
Eve tweets at @EveSacks, Yehudis at @YehudisFletcher, and the Nahamu Project twitter handle is @PNahamu
From MNHQ: Eve and Yehudis have written this resource page on forced marriage for us, please take a look and share widely.
Eve and Yehudis will be returning to this thread to answer your questions for one hour on the 10th March at 10am, so if you have questions for them, leave them below.
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Guest posts
Guest Post: "Mumsnet was the first safe place I had to realise my own agency - now I am campaigning to end forced marriage"
84 replies
JuliaMumsnet · 08/03/2021 12:49
OP posts:
YehudisFletcher ·
10/03/2021 10:05
@Alexandernevermind
Thank you for writing this. I had no idea this was happening in your community. I would imagine lockdown has isolated these young women even further. 
Lockdown is both an isolating factor and an opportunity. Forced marriages have continued almost at the same pace as before. Lockdown has meant that some of these harmful practices have become more visible, and we hope that will bring awareness, and change.
YehudisFletcher ·
10/03/2021 10:12
@aweegc
I have known about this issue, however, I would not mention it publicly. The reason is that anything construed as not fully supporting Judaism is labelled by some (and sometimes many) as anti-Semitic. That is not a label most people want to have when they're really not!
So my question is how can people from outside the faith discuss this openly, even within a women's and girls' rights perspective, without attracting that label? We know for certain that there are people who will see my, for example, criticism of this practice as anti-Semitic, even though I state the same about forced marriage in certain Muslim communities - also a religion which also has many marriages routes that aren't forced. There doesn't seem to be quite the same leap to being labelled Islamophobic.
This, for me, is an important issue to address, because especially in the times of social media pile-ons and employers being called about people's racist or transphobic tweets, this coukd actually cause some people more problems than they realise.
That is not to say I think it shouldn't be tackled openly. Not at all. I'm really glad to have seen this thread and the work you're doing. It's just that knowing how difficult this label can be to deal with, what would your advice be to non-Jews who want to support Charedi and other Jewish women and girls who may be affected, without getting labelled as an anti-Semite?
So my question is how can people from outside the faith discuss this openly, even within a women's and girls' rights perspective, without attracting that label? We know for certain that there are people who will see my, for example, criticism of this practice as anti-Semitic, even though I state the same about forced marriage in certain Muslim communities - also a religion which also has many marriages routes that aren't forced. There doesn't seem to be quite the same leap to being labelled Islamophobic.
This, for me, is an important issue to address, because especially in the times of social media pile-ons and employers being called about people's racist or transphobic tweets, this coukd actually cause some people more problems than they realise.
That is not to say I think it shouldn't be tackled openly. Not at all. I'm really glad to have seen this thread and the work you're doing. It's just that knowing how difficult this label can be to deal with, what would your advice be to non-Jews who want to support Charedi and other Jewish women and girls who may be affected, without getting labelled as an anti-Semite?
This always stands out as a thorny question but to me the answer is simple. Everyone, in every community, deserves to be safe. Jewish people do too. To suggest that calling out human rights abuses in specific communities is racist is an absurd bigotry of low expectations.
I don’t doubt that many find it uncomfortable to risk being accused of racism. Being expected to have sex with a stranger chosen for you by your family is also uncomfortable.
People often worry that talking about systemic harms in minoritised communities will attract racism - but that divests bigots of responsibility for their own bigotry.
I know this sounds harsh, but it is a position I have reached after growing tired of people not being willing to stick their necks out for people like me, because it just gets too awkward. My advice to those who do with to support women (and men!) in my position is to get uncomfortable. I find gin helpful too
YehudisFletcher ·
10/03/2021 10:18
@FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack
Can I ask about this
In my community, school books are redacted to ensure that any references to other ways of thinking are removed, public libraries are seen as dangerous and the internet is banned. We tend to only attend insular community schools, although some of these are state-funded, the curriculum is often restricted and Charedi children don’t mix with anyone different.
This sounds like such a huge barrier. Do you have to work around it or to break though it to reach the girls and their families?
Best wishes on the work you're doing
In my community, school books are redacted to ensure that any references to other ways of thinking are removed, public libraries are seen as dangerous and the internet is banned. We tend to only attend insular community schools, although some of these are state-funded, the curriculum is often restricted and Charedi children don’t mix with anyone different.
This sounds like such a huge barrier. Do you have to work around it or to break though it to reach the girls and their families?
Best wishes on the work you're doing
Thank you for the
!It is an enormous barrier, and one we have repeatedly raised. At the risk of sounding like Michael Rosen, we can't go under it, we can't go over it, we have to go through it.
There are lots of ways to address it, from libraries in different areas being aware and making their services accessible and having staff training, to schools being hauled up on poor practice and actually facing consequences for redactions, to public awareness campaigns like ours and threads like these.
MichelleofzeResistance ·
10/03/2021 10:36
I know this sounds harsh, but it is a position I have reached after growing tired of people not being willing to stick their necks out for people like me, because it just gets too awkward. My advice to those who do with to support women (and men!) in my position is to get uncomfortable.
Nail on the head. The culture needs to change for people to be willing to cope with uncomfortable feelings to unpack issues properly and stand up for what is right rather than what is easy.
And yes to the 
All the !
YehudisFletcher ·
10/03/2021 10:46
@MichelleofzeResistance
Thank you for this post, I wish the Nahamu Project all the best in amplifying women's voices and experiences. Freedom of choice should be fundamental rights regardless of sex or faith, and that familiar phrase for safeguarding applies: there is nothing so sensitive that it shouldn't be talked about.
You would be surprised how many safeguarding professionals are not confident enough to challenge harmful cultural practices, worrying about whether or not they will be backed up by senior colleagues. There seems to be an attitude of 'this is normal for them' - which implies different thresholds for different people.
EveSacks ·
10/03/2021 10:58
@EmbarrassingAdmissions
I've been thinking over the unexpected advantage of an online forum offering insights and constant challenges just by interacting with those who have never been part of a wider world and society.
we insist that young people, of every culture and faith, must have autonomy over who to marry, when to marry or whether to marry at all.
I couldn't agree more on the importance of this - I saw your support for a more secular education:
Nahamu will fight for the right of every Jewish child and adolescent to receive a secular education that will enable them to be a productive and financially independent member of society
I wondered if parents would be free to refuse this, and the feasibility of implementing this when there are no consequences for the parents who refuse and perhaps community difficulties if they do consent to a more secular education. I would echo Socrates11 's question above:
how the human right to freedom to belief, thought and religion (Article 9) can be/is balanced between parents and their children.
I note that you write:
Nahamu will help to develop innovative ways to support those who are seeking to reorient their lives. We will also seek to work with other organisations which are able to provide assistance to those who have suffered harm in Jewish communities.
Do you anticipate a need for specialist refuge and support services for those who want to refuse such marriage arrangements?
we insist that young people, of every culture and faith, must have autonomy over who to marry, when to marry or whether to marry at all.
I couldn't agree more on the importance of this - I saw your support for a more secular education:
Nahamu will fight for the right of every Jewish child and adolescent to receive a secular education that will enable them to be a productive and financially independent member of society
I wondered if parents would be free to refuse this, and the feasibility of implementing this when there are no consequences for the parents who refuse and perhaps community difficulties if they do consent to a more secular education. I would echo Socrates11 's question above:
how the human right to freedom to belief, thought and religion (Article 9) can be/is balanced between parents and their children.
I note that you write:
Nahamu will help to develop innovative ways to support those who are seeking to reorient their lives. We will also seek to work with other organisations which are able to provide assistance to those who have suffered harm in Jewish communities.
Do you anticipate a need for specialist refuge and support services for those who want to refuse such marriage arrangements?
@EmbarrassingAdmissions
Yes, an online forum, (especially when anonymous and supportive) is a great space to meet people from other backgrounds.
To try and answer some of the excellent points you have made:
Nahamuwillfightfortheright*
So, this is why we are speaking out. Not just on forced marriage, we also lobby on education. Parents are refusing to give their children the tools they need to function in society, and the children’s human rights to education and to decide who to marry is being removed by their parents and the community more generally. We think the starting point is better education about what forced marriage is. The discussions around education have gone on for longer. With education, there may be community shunning if parents unilaterally decided to send their children to the excellent Jewish (not charedi) faith schools, and anyway many want to stay within their own community rather than flee, so the government needs to ensure that better education is provided at all charedi schools, and take steps to deal with the unregistered schools.
Balancefreedomtobelief,thoughtandreligion
Freedom of belief, thought and religion is a qualified right, rather than an absolute one. So when someone’s religious actions would be harmful to others, then there is no right to harm others. Thus a denial of education or a forced marriage in the name of religious belief just doesn’t work. In some charedi communities there are systems of arranged marriage without pressure (eg delay the process if not ready, can meet as many times as wanted without pressure, can say no without stigma, even multiple times). There are also schools that balance children’s right to education with a strict religious ethos, so what we are asking for is possible and already exists. You can listen to Yehudis discuss this with Barrister Adam Wagner open.spotify.com/episode/1oJCT3Ahlrs7tCPWEuHXsi
And lastly (I think)
Specialistrefugeand supportservices*
We’d hope to see specialist refuge and support service for all those who refuse forced marriage arrangements, particularly if they have to leave their families and communities as a result. We are lobbying Jewish communal organisations to ensure that this exists within the Jewish community.
Hope that covers it - happy to follow up if more questions although possibly with regular mumsnet account.
YellowBicRoad ·
10/03/2021 10:58
I think you're both wonderful and incredibly brave to campaign on this, especially you Yehudis.
I wonder how much rejection you have faced from within your own community, and whether you have lost friends or the affection of family members? No pressure to answer that if it's too personal
I also wonder if you think that shows like Unorthodox were accurate and/or helpful? I found it so powerful and eye opening
YehudisFletcher ·
10/03/2021 11:03
@YellowBicRoad
I think you're both wonderful and incredibly brave to campaign on this, especially you Yehudis.
I wonder how much rejection you have faced from within your own community, and whether you have lost friends or the affection of family members? No pressure to answer that if it's too personal
I also wonder if you think that shows like Unorthodox were accurate and/or helpful? I found it so powerful and eye opening
I wonder how much rejection you have faced from within your own community, and whether you have lost friends or the affection of family members? No pressure to answer that if it's too personal
I also wonder if you think that shows like Unorthodox were accurate and/or helpful? I found it so powerful and eye opening
My very existence within my community is a protest - I am not threatening to leave, I am threatening to stay. This is not the narrative that people are used to, and it is unsettling for some.
I have certainly experienced some rejection but on the whole I surround myself with people who love and value me and those who don't do not get to take up rent free space in my head.
I wrote a review of Unorthodox here //www.jewthink.org/2020/09/07/watching-unorthodox-in-broughton-park/ - please forgive the indulgent title!
EveSacks ·
10/03/2021 11:05
[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]@EveSacks - I'm so touched that you responded and in such a thoughtful manner.[/quote]
@EmbarrassingAdmissions thanks for thoughtful questions!
PurpleHoodie ·
10/03/2021 11:11
Have only just seen this. Thank you both for doing this conversation
EveSacks ·
10/03/2021 11:20
@Notallowedtogo
I’m from a traditional Jewish background and it was made very clear to me by my parents from a young age that I had to marry someone Jewish. Only friendships and social arrangements with other Jewish children were encouraged. When I had non-Jewish boyfriends they were not invited to my house and only ever mentioned in a negative way. Jewish boyfriends were welcomed with open arms, however unsuitable they may have been.
I did marry someone Jewish not only to please my parents, but also so that I could continue my family and social life in the same way, that I knew would not happen if I married out of the religion. I am now getting divorced 20 years later, and regret marrying the wrong man, although obviously this was down to lots of factors.
Obviously the Charedi have a lot more problems as they often don’t have a choice at all in their husband, and spend the first night of their marriage with almost a stranger, which must be very traumatic for them.
It is very difficult to question anything. For example, there are some feminist ex-Muslims who say that we should all be campaigning to not allow the hijab and niqab.
I did marry someone Jewish not only to please my parents, but also so that I could continue my family and social life in the same way, that I knew would not happen if I married out of the religion. I am now getting divorced 20 years later, and regret marrying the wrong man, although obviously this was down to lots of factors.
Obviously the Charedi have a lot more problems as they often don’t have a choice at all in their husband, and spend the first night of their marriage with almost a stranger, which must be very traumatic for them.
It is very difficult to question anything. For example, there are some feminist ex-Muslims who say that we should all be campaigning to not allow the hijab and niqab.
@Notallowedtogo
Thanks for responding. I think parental approval or dispproval of potential partners does play a big role in decision making, and its unfortunate that your parents didn't challenge unsuitable boyfriends even if they were Jewish. As you say it was down to lots of factors, and a more nuanced approach is needed by parents. I am sure that's right in respect of family and social, although I do have friends who have married outside the faith (but made a decision to bring the children up as observant Jews) and have managed to maintain family and social ties. Obviously this depends on loads of different factors, but I wonder if its easier now than it was 20 years ago?
I don't think this social pressure (to marry within a faith group) is what the forced marriage legislation is getting at though.
And I agree that its very hard to challenge anything, although I personally think its wrong to campaign to not allow the hijab because I think there needs to be freedom to allow it (even if that means some are coerced into it).
Good luck with your divorce, am sure its very hard
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