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Guest post: "We can't compete with Trump's hate - and we shouldn't"

271 replies

JosephineMumsnet · 09/11/2016 15:27

I'm not sure how many Brexits today is supposed to be worth. I started to lose count at around 3am. Then again, the shock is not quite the same as that of the morning of 24 June. If anything, given 2016's track record, it would have felt odd for the US election to go any other way.

Perhaps I have no right to be upset. After all, I'm not even American and even if I was, every expression of dismay will be that of a member of the smug liberal elite (since that is now what anyone who is not virulently right-wing has become). Even so, the parallels between politics in the UK and US seem to be overwhelming. We are witnessing a thuggish take-over by far-right bullies who pose as anti-establishment heroes, men who pretend to smash up the system while their own dominance remains untouched.

Donald Trump – just like the UK's Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage – is someone whose privilege has exempted him from having to follow the same rules as everyone else. He has been able to pose as a rule-breaker even though the normal rules of engagement never applied to him in the first place. Being a woman meant that Hillary Clinton could never have behaved as Trump did and got away with it. Yet precisely because of this she was dismissed as a member of the elite propping up the establishment. But Donald Trump is the establishment and it is rotten to the core.

George W Bush's victory in 2000 might have been bitterly disappointing – not to mention mired in controversy – but this is a disaster of a different order. Bush may have been racist, misogynist, classist, a warmonger, but he was within the bounds of what one might call a small-d democrat. Trump is not.

The dark turn taken by 2016 politics in both the UK and US has involved a shift to mob rule via the threat of violence. Mainstream UK newspapers call judges enemies of the state; Farage calls for Leave voters to take to the streets to 'get even' with politicians intent on 'watering down' the results of a vague, advisory referendum; a female politician is murdered in broad daylight by a far-right activist; and the man who hinted at the assassination of his female opponent is voted into the White House.

A contract has been broken. The likes of Trump and Farage would suggest that it is a contract that has enabled the elite to exploit the people. They would suggest that doing away with the superficial niceties of political discourse rightfully undermines those who use connections and educational advantage to manipulate others. But dispensing with the niceties means nothing if you replace them with threats and even more lies. It simply leaves us with nowhere to go.

I worry about how the left will respond to this disaster. Following Brexit many of us looked to ourselves, seeking refuge in self-blame. After all, if there's something you could have done, then perhaps you could do it now? But I do not want to see conversations about how Democrats should have listened more to 'the people’s' concerns about immigration and racial diversity. Plenty of those who voted for Trump were not the dispossessed; they were white college-educated men, drunk on years of being told that their dominance was under threat. There is no point in the left attempting to appease people who think this way. You just become a fellow hater, albeit someone whose mediocre, half-hearted hate can never compete with the full-blooded, unbridled hatred of men like Trump.

We need something more solid than that. This morning JK Rowling – whom I'd love as our PM – tweeted this: "We stand together. We stick up for the vulnerable. We challenge bigots. We don't let hate speech become normalised. We hold the line." That is what we must do. That is all that we can do. We know who is put most at risk by Trump's victory. The worst thing we could do is to sell them out on the basis that a politics that represents everyone is just too much to ask.

Rich white men are a minority. They do not have the right to intimidate everyone else into submission. This particular battle may be lost but people with compassion, love and the will to do right are not going anywhere.

OP posts:
Pluto30 · 10/11/2016 23:48

And yet, she's still a racist. And you're still ignoring it.

Go cry into your pillow now, like the rest of the lefties who never seem to be able to accept that their beloved candidate could do wrong.

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:49

Claig, that's hardly a genuine endorsement is it?! Switched from Trump because he thinks his hair is a toupee? Grin

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:50

their beloved candidate

I don't like Hillary.

claig · 10/11/2016 23:53

'Switched from Trump because he thinks his hair is a toupee? '

I didn't read that bit Grin

PresidentDonaldTrump · 11/11/2016 00:12

This reply has been deleted

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Spinflight · 11/11/2016 03:59

Could we please either assume that everyone is a racist, or that no-one is? The whole, "I call you a racist and therefore think I've won an argument" meme is peurile.

Immigration is the competence of Congress. Has been since the 1920s. Trump can ask them to fiddle, alter, ban or massage but under their separation of powers it is Congress' responsibility.

Stating this as fact does not make me a racist.

Another competence of Congress is overseas trade, always has been and indeed is enshrined in the constitution. Trump can negotiate ( with permission), threaten, cajole, plead or offer free back rubs but it is Congress's responsibility.

Stating this as fact does not make me a racist.

And before the, "Stupid American idiot promising things he can't deliver" meme turns up, he knows this. Has known it all along.

As to the lillywhite secretary Clinton I suggest people read her chairman's emails. If you can find one that has a good word to say about her then you've done better than me.

In 2008 Obama summed her up, "She'll say anything and do nothing." I actually think Trump somewhat struggled to remain less popular than her, though his strategy depended upon it.

noblegiraffe · 11/11/2016 06:46

Could we please either assume that everyone is a racist, or that no-one is?

What a fucking stupid idea. I'm not racist but I'm pretty bloody sure the KKK are.

Badders123 · 11/11/2016 07:18

With any luck he will be impeached anyway
Some GOP members openly talking impeachment already.....
When is his court case?
December?

originalmavis · 11/11/2016 08:27

As my father used to say 'nobody gets that rich honestly'. He used to deal with construction and property developers (on the UK anyway) and I definitely got the impression that he was very frustrated on occasion by the way 'business' was done.

Pluto30 · 11/11/2016 08:39

original The Clintons aren't exactly poverty stricken either...

Southallgirl · 11/11/2016 08:47

Trumps's speeches were OTT and deliberately so imo. It was stage theatrics designed to convey that he meant business but also - most importantly - nailing the issues that concern many Americans.

I do not know what 'endorse' in this context means. I'm assuming it means that the KKK are pleased that Trump is in, rather than a donation of $ has occurred.

When he said "we've got a lot of really bad hombres in our country" he was spot on. The Mexican gangs are the main sex traffickers into California. There are other nationality gangs in the sex trade of course, but Mexico being next door, is a BIG problem. Coincidentally, soon after, I watched that TV doc about trafficking of Mexican girls into USA for prostitution.

Deportation. I do not understand why illegals from anywhere should not be deported, and yet that's one of the ishoos for the protesters running the streets at the moment.

I've said it on other threads .... just because Hillllary sounds inclusive and right-on and is a member of the 'good' party, it does not mean that she does not share Trump's views. But she cannot voice them openly because of the Regressive Left vibe that afflicts the West.

Trump will have the benefit of advisers in the White House who have served several presidents, so this notion that he cannot be trusted not to take USA into WW3 is nonsense.

Southallgirl · 11/11/2016 08:50

Don't forget that the Clintons come from KKK country. Doubt there are many in Manhattan.

Southallgirl · 11/11/2016 09:06

Mrs Clinton's speeches were pretty vapid and uninspiring. It would be status quo if she had been returned. Her public persona is honed to perfection, and when she is meeting & greeting people she comes across as very sincere. Good actors can do the same; people rejected her because there would be no change.

Trump deliberately spoke in a dramatic way, using everyday language, to distance himself from how a politician talks and to convey that he too is fed up with illegal immigration, running around the world doing regime change, and getting thousands of young Americans killed in the line of duty. And for what? Only to later import the same hostiles who were fighting US military overseas, who hate the West and will continue to seek opportunities to cause maim and destroy, i.e. Boston bombs.

I think he was voted in on a 'let's see what he can do' ticket.

FameNameGameLame · 11/11/2016 09:21

Perhaps he was mentoring her in some other capacity. I expect he had some political experience that might have been useful.

So you are happy that this guy can have kkk links but also provide useful political experience to HC...

However the kkk simply endorse DT, which Is their prerogative, not to do with him, and you're all out of shape...? Hmm

Tell me if I've misunderstood. I do hope I have. Confused

FameNameGameLame · 11/11/2016 09:25

As my father used to say 'nobody gets that rich honestly'.

What a nasty slur on anyone who is financially secure! That's some limiting belief your father gave you there!

Tropezienne · 11/11/2016 09:27

That's right Southallgirl. Even HC's supporters conceded she was robotic, cold, passionless and bereft of conviction.

Sad thing is, Sanders would have made a better candidate than her. But he didn't get the stamp of authority from the Wall Street elite, the fossil-fuel companies - Exxon, Shell, Conoco-Phillips, and Chevron etc. They thought Sanders a bigger threat than Trump and the GOP, the Silly people, they only have themselves to blame really!

GinAndTunic · 11/11/2016 10:24

Don't forget that the Clintons come from KKK country. Doubt there are many in Manhattan.

Oh, what utter nonsense. There is no such thing as 'KKK' country. Hillary comes from a suburb of Chicago and Bill was born in Arkansas, but left at 18 to go to university in Washington, DC. He returned to be governor.

I doubt that you check your facts before you make them up.

fourmummy · 11/11/2016 10:26

I always read posts backwards, starting from the most recent (because of time issues) and when I came to this, As my father used to say 'nobody gets that rich honestly' I assumed that it was aimed at HiIlary and Bill ("Clinton Cash" and all that)!

FameNameGameLame · 11/11/2016 10:46

Grin I can see where you would make that mistake!

BoredofBrexit · 11/11/2016 11:18

Great post yesterday 18.03 Claig.

Southallgirl · 11/11/2016 11:45

There is indeed KKK country - I suggest you learn y'self. Traditionally it is the Deep South, and includes also Oklahama, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, some parts of Texas et al. Bill left for the North to attend uni but he served as governor in Arkansas, his birthplace.

Reapwhatyousow · 11/11/2016 13:20

Give me a business person over a politician to run a country any day. There are civil servants aplenty to steer the course. Where do people think money comes from? It comes from building infrastructure, investment,; individuals willing to take a risk in investing in an area to regenerate it for the benefit of the wider community. In other words, putting people to work and giving them dignity in their ability to care for themselves and their families. I feel optimistic for America. Stop being negative, Trump employs people of many races and minorities and has always done so because he takes people at their face value and because of their attitudes and decides accordingly like we all do. I wouldn't employ someone on race and neither does Trump.

StrictlyPan · 11/11/2016 13:46

I think you are wrong OP - it isn't the threat to rich white men that turned any tide. Largely it was disempowered, rural'ish communities incl the rust belt that understood that Clinton offered them nothing. That's probs why so many women voted Trump, despite everything. "It's the economy, stupid." for those states.

It's little to do with 'gender' politics as much as feminists would want us to believe. It was utter lack of engagement by 'progressives', putting Clinton up as if no-one would see how she cosies up to big corporate interest. No alternative.

"Nothing comes of nothing" (King Lear). Except in this case Trump steps in stage right.

derxa · 11/11/2016 13:54

It's the economy, stupid Right. And this was Bill Clinton's mantra but Hillary seemed to forget it.

Southallgirl · 11/11/2016 14:01

Just out of interest, is it true that Michigan has still not submitted the counts (and now doesn't need to)? I was particularly interested in that State because of the devastation caused in losing vehicle manufacturing to overseas.

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