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Guest post: "We can't compete with Trump's hate - and we shouldn't"

271 replies

JosephineMumsnet · 09/11/2016 15:27

I'm not sure how many Brexits today is supposed to be worth. I started to lose count at around 3am. Then again, the shock is not quite the same as that of the morning of 24 June. If anything, given 2016's track record, it would have felt odd for the US election to go any other way.

Perhaps I have no right to be upset. After all, I'm not even American and even if I was, every expression of dismay will be that of a member of the smug liberal elite (since that is now what anyone who is not virulently right-wing has become). Even so, the parallels between politics in the UK and US seem to be overwhelming. We are witnessing a thuggish take-over by far-right bullies who pose as anti-establishment heroes, men who pretend to smash up the system while their own dominance remains untouched.

Donald Trump – just like the UK's Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage – is someone whose privilege has exempted him from having to follow the same rules as everyone else. He has been able to pose as a rule-breaker even though the normal rules of engagement never applied to him in the first place. Being a woman meant that Hillary Clinton could never have behaved as Trump did and got away with it. Yet precisely because of this she was dismissed as a member of the elite propping up the establishment. But Donald Trump is the establishment and it is rotten to the core.

George W Bush's victory in 2000 might have been bitterly disappointing – not to mention mired in controversy – but this is a disaster of a different order. Bush may have been racist, misogynist, classist, a warmonger, but he was within the bounds of what one might call a small-d democrat. Trump is not.

The dark turn taken by 2016 politics in both the UK and US has involved a shift to mob rule via the threat of violence. Mainstream UK newspapers call judges enemies of the state; Farage calls for Leave voters to take to the streets to 'get even' with politicians intent on 'watering down' the results of a vague, advisory referendum; a female politician is murdered in broad daylight by a far-right activist; and the man who hinted at the assassination of his female opponent is voted into the White House.

A contract has been broken. The likes of Trump and Farage would suggest that it is a contract that has enabled the elite to exploit the people. They would suggest that doing away with the superficial niceties of political discourse rightfully undermines those who use connections and educational advantage to manipulate others. But dispensing with the niceties means nothing if you replace them with threats and even more lies. It simply leaves us with nowhere to go.

I worry about how the left will respond to this disaster. Following Brexit many of us looked to ourselves, seeking refuge in self-blame. After all, if there's something you could have done, then perhaps you could do it now? But I do not want to see conversations about how Democrats should have listened more to 'the people’s' concerns about immigration and racial diversity. Plenty of those who voted for Trump were not the dispossessed; they were white college-educated men, drunk on years of being told that their dominance was under threat. There is no point in the left attempting to appease people who think this way. You just become a fellow hater, albeit someone whose mediocre, half-hearted hate can never compete with the full-blooded, unbridled hatred of men like Trump.

We need something more solid than that. This morning JK Rowling – whom I'd love as our PM – tweeted this: "We stand together. We stick up for the vulnerable. We challenge bigots. We don't let hate speech become normalised. We hold the line." That is what we must do. That is all that we can do. We know who is put most at risk by Trump's victory. The worst thing we could do is to sell them out on the basis that a politics that represents everyone is just too much to ask.

Rich white men are a minority. They do not have the right to intimidate everyone else into submission. This particular battle may be lost but people with compassion, love and the will to do right are not going anywhere.

OP posts:
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Missswatch · 09/11/2016 19:49

that we respect eachothers opinions and faiths, etc.

Yet liberals are the first to use censorship if people don't agree with them

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strangehumour · 09/11/2016 20:11

I agree with lolalola19

So nice to see some comments on here that are not just nasty attacks from lefties.

I can see why the polls get it wrong. People are too afraid to say they are fed up with the politicians and political correctness. The left supporters are really quite scary. Some of my very posh and very nice friends have shocked me with the viciousness of their posts on social media against Brexit & Trump.

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GColdtimer · 09/11/2016 21:44

Fame I think the point is how can we explain to out kids that a man who is a bigoted racist woman hating bully can still win. When we teach our kids about equality. Or perhaps not all of us do.

I understand "sticking one to the establishment". What utterly baffles me is why people think Trump is any better than the rest of them.

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GinAndTunic · 09/11/2016 21:49

We are witnessing a thuggish take-over by far-right bullies who pose as anti-establishment heroes, men who pretend to smash up the system while their own dominance remains untouched.

Oh, please. Enough with the whingeing.

Being a woman meant that Hillary Clinton could never have behaved as Trump did and got away with it.

Nonsense. Clinton lost the election because she was arrogant and patronising and out of touch with the concerns of a large swathe of the electorate. The fact that she was beaten by such a poor candidate shows what a terrible candidate she was and how poorly run her campaign was.

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GinAndTunic · 09/11/2016 21:50

Oh - and Hillary Clinton is a multi-millionaire so please spare us the rhetoric about how a rich man won.

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GinAndTunic · 09/11/2016 21:51

"We can't compete with Trump's hate - and we shouldn't"

You shouldn't, but you are. A more reasonable, thought-out article would have had some degree of analysis and not just trotted out the old tropes of why Trump is a big old meanie.

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merrymouse · 09/11/2016 21:53

I'm so sick of the moral high ground nonsense.

Trump deliberately occupied the moral low ground.

People will continue to stand up to bigotry and hatred. Get used to it.

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GinAndTunic · 09/11/2016 21:57

Yet liberals are the first to use censorship if people don't agree with them

Well said.

I understand "sticking one to the establishment".

And that is one of the reasons why Trump was elected. The Democrats didn't get it, don't get it and won't get it until they do some soul-searching.

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FameNameGameLame · 09/11/2016 22:46

Merrymouse your definition of standing up to bigotry and hatred is skewed. Don't do it on an anonymous forum, do it in the waiting room at the doctor surgery, in the line of the supermarket, bring it up at the school gates and have these conversations in real life... don't wax lyrical on an anonymous forum and think you're on some moral high ground.

Slagging off half the electorate is in no way morally impressive.

Deciding you know the story of all those people based on what you've read in the snippets of information the news sources have provided you with, it's just ridiculous. And it is unintelligent ... and while we're at it, calling anyone stupid, especially based on a group they belong to - I'd call that pretty bigoted and immoral too.

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merrymouse · 09/11/2016 22:58

thankfully only just over a quarter of Americans voted for Trump.

You are right, I have no idea why they voted for Trump, but I know Trump is a bigot. He has said so.

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Wynona · 09/11/2016 23:41

Does anyone remember Spitting Image? I think we need a return to such satire. Perhaps though comedy we can start to reach out. Watch Jim Jeffries

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Spinflight · 09/11/2016 23:49

Hillary Clinton is a monster and the OP's vapid bigotry surpasses anything the clearly imperfect Donald Trump has ever said.

There are many ways to analyse the election though a lens shrouded in self indulgent tears and sexist prejudice isn't one of them.

"Being a woman meant that Hillary Clinton could never have behaved as Trump did and got away with it."

Oh where to begin! Possibly the single most ignorant and asinine comment relating to this election, from quite a field I have to say.

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Kaija · 09/11/2016 23:56

Great guest post. Some unfuckingbelievable responses. You don't think Trump is a bully? Hillary is "a monster" and trump merely "imperfect"?

and this:

"Merrymouse your definition of standing up to bigotry and hatred is skewed. Don't do it on an anonymous forum, do it in the waiting room at the doctor surgery, in the line of the supermarket, bring it up at the school gates and have these conversations in real life."

Guess what: we can, and will, do both.

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ThisIsReallyNotMyName · 10/11/2016 00:09

There's been enough haters from the Hillary camp. I think there were many female voters not keen on a female president who threatened and demeaned women her husband had raped and sexually abused.

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bridgetoc · 10/11/2016 00:18

I agree Victoria..... you do come across as very much "a member of the smug Liberal elite"

Outside of your Guardian/BBC types, people are bored, and wise to the likes of you now.

Wake up to that fact!

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noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 00:21

People bleating about accepting the will of the people would do well to remember that sometimes the will of the people should not be accepted.

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Spinflight · 10/11/2016 04:42

"People bleating about accepting the will of the people would do well to remember that sometimes the will of the people should not be accepted."

Smug dystopian bastardry of the highest order.

Oh tell us oh mighty and superior moral intellect, how should we instruct the people of another country to vote?

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Prisencolinensinainciusol · 10/11/2016 05:07

all these goodie2shoes saying what they 'think' they should say, what they 'think' others would like to hear instead of speaking their minds.

This is what it comes down to isn't it? The belief that the 'smug liberal elites' are just pretending to have 'politically correct' beliefs in order to hold on to power and stamp on the little people. No - some people actually believe in equality and compassion and humanity.

The fact that anyone who expresses those beliefs immediately gets called the 'elite', regardless of their actual circumstances, just goes to show that the accusers know that their values are the lowest of the low.

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merrymouse · 10/11/2016 06:08

Hillary Clinton is a monster and the OP's vapid bigotry surpasses anything the clearly imperfect Donald Trump has ever said.

No, Hillary Clinton isn't a monster and neither is Trump.

He is just a man.

In a democracy that protects the right to freedom of speech, it is possible to disagree with him vocally and publically, and to carry on doing so.

If anybody can't understand what makes some of Trump's comments and actions sexist or racist or can't understand why that is worrying, all the more reason to explain why.

Hillary Clinton is no longer running for president. It is no longer relevant to compare what he has said and done to anyone else. Now he has to stand on his own feet and face everyone, not just his supporters - the people who didn't vote for him, the people who didn't vote at all, and the people who only voted for him by default.

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Spinflight · 10/11/2016 06:10

... And you display your belief in equality, compassion and humanity by dictating that anyone who disagrees with you has standards which are the lowest of the low. I note you didn't list honesty, which was probably wise.

Now pardon me princess before I grubby your self delusional despair over events in another country. Please forgive me if I credit the American people with seeing through the sham though I happen to believe in something called democracy.

When a woman reaches the White House it'll be a woman who deserves it, hopefully someone not bought and paid for by wall street after an honest caucus.

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derxa · 10/11/2016 06:14

This morning JK Rowling – whom I'd love as our PM – Absolute drivel

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ricepolo · 10/11/2016 06:31

Truly shocked at how some people refuse to call Trump out for what he is and argue that doing so is smug or elitist. The fable of the emperor's new clothes springs to mind.

Democracy means accepting the decision of the majority, not accepting that this decision is correct. Or are you a lemming, blindly following the masses without bothering to check where the cliff edge is?

Blaming Hillary for her husband's behaviour is inappropriate. Do my husband's actions affect my ability to do my job? No. And might I point out that Trump has fairly certainly committed such behaviour himself, or is that for some reason not as bad because, well, that's what men do. Hmm

Trump is a self confessed sexually predatory, racist misogynist. According to some, he is also a sociopath. To declare this is not elitist: it is our responsibility. Failure to stand up against such figures in the past has been catastrophic: it's entirely correct to be un-PC in this situation and declare that a grave error has been made. The rule of law must be followed but that doesn't make it the right path.

Never have I been so grateful for our monarchy and the checks and balances they offer, and I say this as someone who was, until very recently, a strong republican.

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merrymouse · 10/11/2016 06:32

I note you didn't list honesty, which was probably wise.

Trump lied blatantly throughout the election.

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Prisencolinensinainciusol · 10/11/2016 06:51

Spinflight My point was it's a strange political movement that positions those they disagree with as 'above' them, (by calling them the elite).

It used to be left vs right, with the belief that those you disagreed with had a very different philosophy on life, which you may well despise, but this constant aggression towards some unknown, unquantifiable 'elite' (which somehow excludes millionaires and billionaires such as Farage, Johnson and Trump) feels contrived, and a bit scary.

I know very little about it, but a Chinese friend of mine was telling me about the point in time when all the universities were shut down. All of them. And the academics, and other 'elites' sent to rural labour camps.

Isn't something like that happening in Turkey right now? Universities being shut down?

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Spinflight · 10/11/2016 07:10

"The rule of law must be followed but that doesn't make it the right path. "

Quite, lock her up. Lol

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