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Guest post: "We can't compete with Trump's hate - and we shouldn't"

271 replies

JosephineMumsnet · 09/11/2016 15:27

I'm not sure how many Brexits today is supposed to be worth. I started to lose count at around 3am. Then again, the shock is not quite the same as that of the morning of 24 June. If anything, given 2016's track record, it would have felt odd for the US election to go any other way.

Perhaps I have no right to be upset. After all, I'm not even American and even if I was, every expression of dismay will be that of a member of the smug liberal elite (since that is now what anyone who is not virulently right-wing has become). Even so, the parallels between politics in the UK and US seem to be overwhelming. We are witnessing a thuggish take-over by far-right bullies who pose as anti-establishment heroes, men who pretend to smash up the system while their own dominance remains untouched.

Donald Trump – just like the UK's Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage – is someone whose privilege has exempted him from having to follow the same rules as everyone else. He has been able to pose as a rule-breaker even though the normal rules of engagement never applied to him in the first place. Being a woman meant that Hillary Clinton could never have behaved as Trump did and got away with it. Yet precisely because of this she was dismissed as a member of the elite propping up the establishment. But Donald Trump is the establishment and it is rotten to the core.

George W Bush's victory in 2000 might have been bitterly disappointing – not to mention mired in controversy – but this is a disaster of a different order. Bush may have been racist, misogynist, classist, a warmonger, but he was within the bounds of what one might call a small-d democrat. Trump is not.

The dark turn taken by 2016 politics in both the UK and US has involved a shift to mob rule via the threat of violence. Mainstream UK newspapers call judges enemies of the state; Farage calls for Leave voters to take to the streets to 'get even' with politicians intent on 'watering down' the results of a vague, advisory referendum; a female politician is murdered in broad daylight by a far-right activist; and the man who hinted at the assassination of his female opponent is voted into the White House.

A contract has been broken. The likes of Trump and Farage would suggest that it is a contract that has enabled the elite to exploit the people. They would suggest that doing away with the superficial niceties of political discourse rightfully undermines those who use connections and educational advantage to manipulate others. But dispensing with the niceties means nothing if you replace them with threats and even more lies. It simply leaves us with nowhere to go.

I worry about how the left will respond to this disaster. Following Brexit many of us looked to ourselves, seeking refuge in self-blame. After all, if there's something you could have done, then perhaps you could do it now? But I do not want to see conversations about how Democrats should have listened more to 'the people’s' concerns about immigration and racial diversity. Plenty of those who voted for Trump were not the dispossessed; they were white college-educated men, drunk on years of being told that their dominance was under threat. There is no point in the left attempting to appease people who think this way. You just become a fellow hater, albeit someone whose mediocre, half-hearted hate can never compete with the full-blooded, unbridled hatred of men like Trump.

We need something more solid than that. This morning JK Rowling – whom I'd love as our PM – tweeted this: "We stand together. We stick up for the vulnerable. We challenge bigots. We don't let hate speech become normalised. We hold the line." That is what we must do. That is all that we can do. We know who is put most at risk by Trump's victory. The worst thing we could do is to sell them out on the basis that a politics that represents everyone is just too much to ask.

Rich white men are a minority. They do not have the right to intimidate everyone else into submission. This particular battle may be lost but people with compassion, love and the will to do right are not going anywhere.

OP posts:
Pluto30 · 10/11/2016 21:36

noble

Yep. There's a hell of a lot of backlash towards people who supported Trump, you're right.

As for the racial divisiveness, that has been present for a long time now. It far predates Trump's candidacy and I don't think it's devolved into even further divisiveness since then.

I'm guessing you didn't watch the video I linked. S'alright, wouldn't expect a lefty to be able to see the other side.

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 21:44

I don't think it's devolved into even further divisiveness since then.

I don't know, the KKK saying the election outcome was awesome suggests they expect an increase in business.

Pluto30 · 10/11/2016 22:14

Clinton's mentor was a KKK recruiter, so might want to ensure you're giving equal criticism where it's due.

Badders123 · 10/11/2016 22:46

Trump actually looked embarrassed in the oval office today...couldnt look Obama in the eye!
I can't help but see echoes of Gove and bojos sad faces after the ref result....
I don't think he wants this
I really don't

Pluto30 · 10/11/2016 22:50

Well he's been talking about it for 36 years, so I'd say you're probably incorrect.

claig · 10/11/2016 23:06

Yes, he has thought about if for a long time. He has top advisers who know the game and tell him what is involved. According to Roger Stone, 1 week after Romney lost, Trump registered the trademark "Make America Great Again". He knew he would run this time. He thought about it last time, but in the end chose not to.

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:06

I looked up Clinton's "KKK mentor"

It's also true that Robert Byrd was a member of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1940s and helped establish the hate group's chapter in Sophia, West Virginia. However, in 1952 Byrd avowed that "After about a year, I became disinterested [in the KKK], quit paying my dues, and dropped my membership in the organization," and throughout his long political career (he served for 57 years in the United States Congress) he repeatedly apologized for his involvement with the KKK:

"I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times ... and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened."

So while Hillary had a mentor who was a member of Congress for 57 years but was briefly a KKK member in the 1940s for which he has apologised, I'm really not sure that really compares to the fact that the KKK endorsed Donald Trump this year.

Pluto30 · 10/11/2016 23:15

So, it's not important that a congressperson himself was involved with the KKK. How about the fact that Clinton herself called black youths "super predators"? The fact that she has made anti semitic comments on at least one occasion? The fact that she, too, supported the building of a wall all the way back in 2005? Has vehemently, prior to this election, stated that she supports the deportation of illegal immigrants?

But it's important that the KKK themselves endorsed a candidate? Has Donald Trump ever mentioned to KKK in relation to himself?

claig · 10/11/2016 23:17

'So while Hillary had a mentor who was a member of Congress for 57 years but was briefly a KKK member in the 1940s'

There are different versions of the actual time he was a member for. He used the N word live on TV many years later. Very strange and a high position within the party. Mentor to more than just Clinton, possibly Biden too, if I remember rightly. At one time, third in line for President.

claig · 10/11/2016 23:20

'the KKK endorsed Donald Trump this year.'

If the Monster Raving Looney Party endorsed Ed Miliband for Labour leader, it wouldn't mean Ed was a looney.

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:22

Yes, it's pretty important that the KKK endorsed a candidate, and were openly elated about his election. Why do you think they were happy? If Hillary is so fucking awful, why did they not vote for her instead?

And if the KKK are so bloody delighted, how on earth can you claim that Trump's election hasn't contributed anything to increased racial divisiveness?

claig · 10/11/2016 23:24

'Why do you think they were happy?'

Because Trump wants to stop illegal immigration

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:24

No, claig, the KKK endorsing a candidate and being delighted by his election doesn't automatically mean Donald Trump is a racist. But it must mean that there is something in what he is saying that appeals to extreme racists, and is a person that extreme racists think they will benefit from having as President. If I were an ethnic minority I would find that very concerning.

I don't think they endorsed him because of his views on interest rates.

claig · 10/11/2016 23:27

'But it must mean that there is something in what he is saying that appeals to extreme racists'

Yes he wants to end illegal immigration. But many people who are not in the KKK want that too. The KKK also want that. It doesn't mean the policy is racist.

Pluto30 · 10/11/2016 23:28

Why is it more important that they endorsed him, than that the opposition's own friend and mentor was actually a member of the KKK? Trump isn't a member of the KKK, never has been, and has never spoken about them in any context other than in bringing up the Robert Byrd connection.

I see you're going to ignore Hillary's racism. Typical lefty hypocrite.

Black Lives Matter was started after a new era of racial divisiveness appeared to have begun in the US. This was in early 2013. Trump didn't even announce his intention to run until May 2015, two years later. Why does Obama hold no responsibility for increased racial tensions during his term? Why do he and Clinton, if the beacons of a united country you seem to think they are, take no responsibility for the massive decrease in black voter turnout this time around?

I'm assuming you'll 1) again ignore her racism, and 2) offer no insight into my last point.

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:29

Because Trump wants to stop illegal immigration

And ban Muslims from entering the country and build a wall on the border with Mexico and make Mexico pay for it and so on.

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:31

Trump isn't a member of the KKK, never has been

Neither has Hillary Confused

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:32

Why do he and Clinton, if the beacons of a united country you seem to think they are

I'm pretty sure I never said this. Why are you making up stuff and pretending I think it?

claig · 10/11/2016 23:33

Yes, but Hillary and Bill did build a fence and were in favour of it too.

He doesn't want to ban all Muslims, he wants tougher vetting as do many people in the United States including some Senators.

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:36

December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on

From www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration

claig · 10/11/2016 23:37

Yes, but he changed that later

Pluto30 · 10/11/2016 23:43

Again, ignoring Hillary's racism completely.

It's more relevant that her mentor, who she gushed about time and time again, was a member of the KKK and a known racist even afterwards. It's irrelevant, by comparison, that the KKK supports Donald Trump, who's never acknowledged them.

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:43

So like the abortion thing he didn't know what he was talking about and had to backtrack when someone whispered in his ear that he was talking shit?

Let's hope he's more restrained as President, eh?

claig · 10/11/2016 23:45

'Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon Will Quigg Endorses Hillary Clinton for President '

www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-14/ku-klux-klan-grand-dragon-will-quigg-endorses-hillary-clinton-for-president

It doesn't mean anything. A candidate cannot be held responsible for a fruitcake who endorses them

noblegiraffe · 10/11/2016 23:46

If Hillary's mentor was mentoring her in racism and KKK activities, he clearly wasn't very good at it as the KKK plumped for Trump.

Perhaps he was mentoring her in some other capacity. I expect he had some political experience that might have been useful.