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Guest post: "Girls still think getting sweaty isn't for them"

108 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 15/06/2016 11:04

We're about to embark on another glorious summer of sport, but for much of the population the exploits of Jessica Ennis-Hill in Brazil and the England men's team in France will have little impact on our everyday lives.

We know why, we've all seen the headlines: girls and women are not doing enough sport or exercise. Despite the increased visibility of female sporting role models, we're in the middle of an obesity crisis in this country and it's women and girls who are most at risk. Only 12% of 14-year-old girls do enough exercise, meanwhile one third of girls aged 12-15 in England are deemed overweight or obese. The estimated impact on the nation as a whole is startling: physical inactivity costs the UK economy £7.4bn a year.

The question is - why do so many women and girls have such a dysfunctional relationship with sport? While women's sport is more visible than ever (though still not visible enough, accounting for just 2% of all sports coverage in newspapers in 2013), why are we still getting it so wrong at grassroots level?

As someone who consistently bunked PE lessons throughout secondary school, now I'm a mum I find myself thinking a lot about how to make sure my daughter's relationship with sport and physical activity is a more positive one. Because although the policies are changing – such as the FA raising the age limit for girls and boys to play football together to 18 years – the culture is not.

I came across far too many depressing stories while researching for Eat Sweat Play. Like the mum who told me her eight-year-old daughter hates playing football in PE lessons because the boys refuse to pass to the girls and so they end up standing around getting cold and bored. Or the bright young football coach who told me that England women's success at the World Cup last year brought girls to his Under-10s football coaching sessions, but no matter how good they are the boys still won't accept them. Meanwhile, on my local parenting message board, mums lament that their five-year-old daughters cannot join a football session because the boys taking part are already so advanced the girls would be sidelined before they even start.

These examples are significant because they refute the common assumption that the problems for girls and sport begin at puberty. While periods and boobs are a barrier for girls taking up sport, or continuing to be active, the roots of the thing are much deeper.

With my own daughter I've watched how from a very early age a myriad of factors gave her the message that sport and being physically strong is for boys, while dolls and domestics are for girls. Comments from parents, images and slogans on kids' clothing, stories in books, programmes on TV…it's an anti-sport cultural assault that ensures young girls know that getting sweaty, muscular or powerful is not for them.

And so, in the summer of 2013 before she had even turned two years old, it was fascinating how she reacted to seeing England women on the TV at the European Championships. For the first time ever my daughter sat staring at the match, all those ponytails bobbing up and down the pitch. Girls! Like her! Playing sport! It was the first time she properly concentrated on a game of football.

Thank goodness then that Tracey Crouch, sports minister, has slashed the national sports strategy age target – from 14 years old to five – in an attempt to engage children as they start school. Because if we expect future generations of adults to do 150 minutes of exercise a week to stay healthy, then we've got to engender the habit in our kids first.

But while schools and sports coverage all play their part, arguably the most important role models of all are parents. Running down the street together, kicking a ball in the park, cycling, swimming, talking about sport and exercise, finding women's sport to watch on TV, or in the local area – all give girls the message that sport is for them. But with 75% of women telling Sport England that while they would like to play sport, fear of judgement stops them from having a go.

We've got to break the cycle somewhere though, and if children see their mums doing sport and exercise, they will likely follow in their footsteps. And who knows where that could take them. Laura Trott might never have won two Olympic gold medals had her mum not taken up cycling to lose weight.

And perhaps, similarly, Laura Trott's mum might never have taken up cycling if she didn't have children to be a role model for. That's the beauty of parenting. Sometimes our children motivate us to confront our biggest fears, even if it's a lifetime of PE dodging, in order to make a change for good.

OP posts:
AnnaKessel · 16/06/2016 13:00

How is it 1pm already?! Thanks so much for all your questions, lots more thoughts in the book, and of course if you want to chat more or in future you can find me on twitter @anna_kessel

Have a lovely day!

IcedCoffeeToGo · 16/06/2016 13:02

Please answer a question about gender/sex conflation and what it really means for women in sport.

HairyLittlePoet · 16/06/2016 13:18

Anna
appreciate the time slot is up, but if you can find 5 minutes to answer my question I think that would be great. This is a major issue for the next generation of female athletes.

ouchieouchie · 16/06/2016 13:23

What a surprise, not all questions answered there Hmm

I saw an advert for sanitary towels just now, with female goalkeeper stating that having periods didn't stop her performing, Do you agree that's transphobic? After all not all women/girls have periods, they don't all have uteruses, vulva etc, in fact they can penises. And those who raise an eyebrow, or question this are called bigots, and threatened.

HairyLittlePoet · 16/06/2016 13:24

Boo.
The message to girls is, your female bodies are amazing. But not as amazing as the male bodies who you'll have to compete against. Still, girls don't need medals really. Medals are for male men, and male transwomen. Oh, and male non-binaries. Males, basically. Women should just enjoy the taking part. Assuming we even qualify to take part.
Actually, best to stick to knitting probably.

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 16/06/2016 13:28

The answer to the trans question won't happen. I've just googled.

There's a negative reference in Eat, Sweat Play to an athlete who drew "staunch criticism from the trans community after saying transgender UFC fighter Fallon Fox should not be allowed to fight women because of a perceived, albeit scientifically unproven, advantage", and there's a reference on the Women in Football site to a women's football magazine getting its first trans patron.

It's a shame. The whole girls & women in sport message is brilliant. But.

GrimyaTheFaithful · 16/06/2016 13:29

Obvious dodging of some particular questions there Hmm

EmpressOfTheSevenOceans · 16/06/2016 13:31

My previous post looks a bit convoluted so to summarise:

Guardian writer Anna Kessel's book and the Women in Football website imply, to me, that she is in favour of trans inclusion in girls' sport.

HairyLittlePoet · 16/06/2016 13:39

In favour of MALE inclusion in women's sport.

We were talking about bodies, right?

Then don't come here asking why girls aren't interested in sport. It's because of their opportunities to succeed being snatched away by people who won't stand up for them and demand fair play.
people who call them bigoted for wanting their female bodies to compete against other female bodies.

Don't bemoan the end of women's sports whilst you're dismantling it as fast as possible.

Shame on you.

februaryhas29days · 16/06/2016 14:25

Getting away from the anti-trans hijack...

The biggest problem for girls in sport is that from an early age, competition in exercise/sport trumps participation. This gets worse as girls get older. If PE class and general school and afterschool activities were based on finding some form of sport/exercise that you like, working on improving, and enjoying being fit, getting exercise, being active etc. rather than "winning" "being the best" "making the team" "scoring goals" etc. then you wouldn't have droves of girls exiting sports at age 12 or so. The girls who are good at sports will stay in it, it's the ones who aren't naturally talented that need encouragement to stay active and healthy.

I've lost count of the number of women in my cycling/running club or fellow triathletes who said "I hated PE in school, I was rubbish at everything but as an adult I discovered I quite enjoy riding a bike/running/triathlon". It's a shame that we can't get to these women while they're still girls, instead of waiting til they're over 30 to find out.

HairyLittlePoet · 16/06/2016 14:44

Not anti-trans, you dope.

Anti male bodies in women's sport.

Trying to frame a very real unfairness against women in sport as 'anti-trans' is nasty.

So you have absolutely NO limit at which you would say 'hang on, that's not fair to women?'

If males won all the men's medals.
If they won 50% of the women's medals too? 10%? 75%? All?
If women (female bodied ) made up 50% of the population but were dramatically underrepresented in their own sport?

Where is your line?

At what point do you say no? Biological Women are half the world's population. How do we ensure they are fairly represented?

GeekLove · 16/06/2016 16:03

Can we just talk about getting girls involved rather than all this anti transfer gibberish. This is killing what's so far been an nice useful thread. Take that someplace elsewhere.

HairyLittlePoet · 16/06/2016 16:04

No.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 16/06/2016 16:09

I think my problem with using this thread to discuss transwomen in sport is
A) it's discussed endlessly on mumsnet already.
B) again it's talking about elite competitive sport.

This thread should be to talk about getting girls more active. Engaging more in PE lessons going to the gym etc

There are things stopping young girls being more active but I don't think transwomen is sport is one of the things putting them off.

GeekLove · 16/06/2016 16:11

I meant trans gibberish. See its even affecting my Autocorrect.

HairyLittlePoet · 16/06/2016 16:20

www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/06/07/mother-of-girl-who-lost-race-to-transgender-athlete-speaks-out-and-shes-furious/

It's in schools too.

And even if it primarily affects women in elite sports a. How is that fair to female elite athletes and b. What motivational message does that give to girls when they start seeing that even the most incredible female athletes get displaced by men.

I get that it's impossible to defend this without obviously throwing women and girls in sport under the bus.

If you think it's fair for girls to lose places on teams to boys, and for male athletes to claim medals by competing against women then defend your position, I'll listen.

But on a thread about what demotivates girls from competing and participating in sports? I'm going to discuss this. Because it's very relevant.

SunshineAndClouds235 · 16/06/2016 16:23

Great thread!

I think we need to make it more normal for women to do sport. i feel like it's acceptable for me to do aerobics but if I want to do football or crossfit or climbing it's considered unusual at best or weird at worst. its like I'm allowed to do exercise classes to keep fit but god forbid I learn a skill or become part of a team or get to compete or enjoy the social side. whereas my male friends are doing sports that are daring or skilful or competitive or social and team building. If more women got to enjoy these sides of sport maybe they would inspire the girls and normalise sport in adult women. I hope so!!!

powershowerforanhour · 16/06/2016 17:04

At breaktime in my primary school, the boys played football in the playground. The girls stayed round the edges of the playground chatting. At secondary school, in winter the boys played rugby on the pitch. The girls slogged round the edge of the pitch for a few laps. gleegeek's first post reflects my experience at secondary school. The boys learned passing drills, tackling etc for football and rugby and batting and bowling skills for cricket. I don't remember getting taught any skills for rounders and netball, just a few desultory netball drills with no attempt to explain how to perform them better, then pick teams and play. Rounders wasn't a "real sport" anyway as you don't play other schools, so it was just a way to kill time. I suppose if I'd been talented or tall enough to get on the netball team I would have been taught skills during after school training.
I think the boys had this to some extent as anyone too small to have a hope of getting on a school team (rugby was the school religion) probably didn't receive much attention to their skills. There was no girls' rugby team. We did get the day off to go and admire the boys lose the schools cup semifinal once though.

bojorojo · 16/06/2016 17:35

I think it is very difficult for clubs to cater for boys and girls in traditionally boy sports. If there are not enough girls playing rugby there needs to be a regional specialist
Club because tagging onto the boys (sorry about the pun) is not likely to
Lead to success in the long run. They will not be able to compete with the boys so need their own coaches who cannot be provided for small numbers. If this is inconvenient then girls could be encouraged to do a sport that is easier to access.

I am useless at sport, all sport, and so is one of my DDs. We cannot hit a ball, catch a ball or run. We have other attributes! Sport at school was awful, competitive and made us look like fools. I heard parents laughing at my DDs very slow time in the 800m as she was half a lap behind ! She had taken the place of an absent girl to ensure the house got the points and was thanked by people laughing at her. Girls should be encouraged to stay fit but competitive sport does not suit everyone. Neither can everyone participate effectively in sport that requires a high level of skill. During the Olympics it was frequently said that anyone could be an Olympian if they work hard at their sport. This is total tosh and we should encourage exercise for all, at all levels, and not peddle rubbish about how to be an elite sportsman or women.

I love watching high quality sport. I am not a fan of women's sports if it is lowish quality. That does not mean women should not play its just that it is not good enough to warrant my attention. However in 3 day event and in some other sports, the women are as good as the men and watching them is just fantastic. It just may be that girls are less sports inclined and unless parents push them, they might rather be doing something else, like outperforming boys academically!

Piemernator · 16/06/2016 18:03

I have always been labelled a tomboy and played lots of sport at school and also out of school. I never cared that I was given that label. My stepfather taught us how to play football and I taught my DS how to do a rainbow flick and greatly impressed his mate.

I have been watching a match and there's been a bad tackle, that's a yellow card say I, ooh well done in a sarcastic manner by a bloke. If you go in to some intellectual debate about the patriarchy you get eye rolling. I find having better knowledge of the game and possibly a rapid fuck off works better.

I have spent many years working within a male dominated environment and my main hobby is gaming which is again dominated by men. You literally have to beat them at their own game. I did karate when young. I'm really small, a temp instructor paired me with a massive bloke, you could tell he found it amusing. I managed to throw this huge bloke. I also threw one off a wall, this temp instructor had some weird ideas. But no way was his humiliation plan working.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 16/06/2016 18:18

If you think it's fair for girls to lose places on teams to boys, and for male athletes to claim medals by competing against women then defend your position, I'll listen

This thread isn't about this. It's about girls and women not doing enough physical activity.

If you want to start a separate thread I'll come over and discuss it but I think it's a bit of a derail here.

GeekLove · 16/06/2016 19:09

I do obstacle courses, lift weights and my boys regularly see me crank off chin ups but I was mediocre at PE and people would fight over who didn't have to pick me and I have not done a single team game since leaving school.

I am disappointed that even now there is very little coaching for team sports given at school, it is generally assumed you just know the rules. Only exceptions to this were netball and hockey.

Team games are not reliable as an actual workout and only appeal to those already sporty. What's wrong with actually teaching sporty skills alongside like how to dribble, throw, shuttle run etc so that even those who cannot or don't feel motivated by team sports can get some exercise. More fun than the desultory walk around the pitch.

Also, it is still uncommon to stream by ability and that was unheard of when I was at school. So you have the 35kg 1.4m people in the same team as the 60kg 1.7 people, which doesn't end well.

And if you have a disability or injury, its the 'sitting on the sideline' workout for you. No ramp up or rehab work outs.

I kept up my physical activity out of school as I am body confident (and did get a bit of a thrill in annoying some of my peer group despite expectations that I shouldn't) but this sort of treatment hardly encourages the take up and maintenance of physical activity.

powershowerforanhour · 16/06/2016 19:25

I think Hairy's questions were fair. Yes, I hate that so many threads about women's rights in general become all about the trans, and the trans in sports issue has been discussed on MN before, but not by a guest poster.
Yes, the point is about grassroots and children's sport not elite sport- but elite sportswomen as role models is one facet if this, as the guest poster acknowledged when she discussed world and euro women's football and elite shotputters. And also getting sportswomen into schools to talk about their careers. The way the rules stand there is probably no point encouraging talented children who are biologically female, with no testicular tissue anywhere, to believe that they have a decent chance of making a living out of middle distance running, for example.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 16/06/2016 20:16

Yes, the point is about grassroots and children's sport not elite sport- but elite sportswomen as role models is one facet if this

But elite sports don't seem to encourage overall participation. The Olympics hasn't.

It's hard for most girls and women to relate to elite sports women. Elite sports don't seem to inspire your average person to go for a jog or attend a Zumba class.

Barneythepurpledinowhore · 16/06/2016 20:27

I respectfully disagree with you there, whenshewashorrid. I am very unsporty, possibly dyspraxic, but seeing Jessica Ennis at the Olympics inspired me massively to get fit. Since then I've discovered the existence of women's football and I actually enjoy watching it - which surprised me as I'm no fan of the men's game. And then seeing Serena Williams in action has inspired me further to try and get strong.

I love seeing how women's bodies can be strong and fit. I'm never going to be a sportswomen but I am starting to take care of my body more and appreciate what it can do. I've got back into walking and am thinking of starting to weight train. I wish I'd known about female athletes and sports when I was younger. I think they are great role models for young girls.