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Guest post: Why is society so ambivalent about stay-at-home mums?

607 replies

KateMumsnet · 26/02/2014 11:27

Historically women (and children) have always worked. The poor would either take their children to work with them, or leave them with extended families. At the other end of the scale, rich women would leave their children in the care of a nanny while they managed household staff and organised events - long before these activities became viable career choices.

What's changed is that there is now an expectation - or illusion - of choice in the matter. When I was growing up, we had a female prime minister, and Alexis Carrington was the most famous woman on TV. We were told that we could have it all – glittering career, thriving children and a happy marriage.

It was a lie. As adults, we discover that economic necessity, the needs of children and our own aspirations all pull us in different directions. Rather than 'having it all', we choose our path and passionately defend our decisions against the different choices, opinions and expectations of others. Someone, somewhere will always disagree.

Obviously, there's a tension for those who would love to make a different choice, but can't. For some, working just isn't worth it. Salaries can't compete with the crippling cost of formal childcare, and for many of us, family aren't on hand to help. For others, rocketing property prices and rents mean that often both parents must work to afford the roof over their heads and an acceptable standard of living. With the prospect of meagre pensions, tuition fees, care homes and future property prices, there's a strong chance my children might, at 25, wish I'd traded those extra games of Scrabble for a decent deposit on a flat.

Over the past eight years I've worked part-time, freelanced, stayed at home and run my own business. I gave up my “glittering” corporate TV career and moved out of London, back to the village I grew up in, after the birth of son number 2. Not one of those solutions has been perfect, none of them have been easy and I have beaten myself up over each and every decision.

But the decision to stay at home was the one that I struggled with most. Like squabbling siblings, what I wanted for my children, my own identity and my relationship constantly clashed. Enduring stereotypes are of either the dull but worthy women, who were relieved that finally nothing more was expected of them in terms of their career - or the wealthy, well-groomed types who rule the PTA with an iron fist. The woman who actively chooses to stay at home seems to stir a wealth of confused emotions in all of us.

And as a feminist, I couldn't help feeling that I was letting the side down. By the time I had children I was successful, financially independent and viewed my marriage as a partnership of equals. The notion that I could give it all up in favour of singing ‘the wheels on the bus’ and sorting the laundry seemed extraordinary. I was uncomfortable with being financially dependent on my husband and I didn't like what it did to our relationship (there was an argument about aubergines I shan't forget). I had grown up with my mother laying out my father's clothes in the morning, but had expected something different for myself: this was not what feminism had fought for; this was not my place. How could I bring my sons up to respect women and treat them as equals if I wasn't an equal partner in my own house?

And yet, I wanted to be at home with my children. I wanted to be the one that cuddled them, read them stories and watched them grow. I wanted to make them toast when they came home from school. I felt my children needed me - and for many women, no job is more important.

And what about the state's position on all this? It seems to be ambivalent at best; fundamentally, it views you in terms of economic worth. We have an ageing population and we need people of working age to pay for them. The fact that children need nurturing, educating, and caring for is overlooked. That future generation of voters is not important right now. Politicians might pay lip service to the value of carers, but the welfare system reveals the truth – they are a burden; they've made a ‘lifestyle choice’ and they aren't ‘pulling their weight’.

The government's answer is to institutionalise childcare; to lengthen school days and cut holidays. They seem to be arguing simultaneously that looking after children is worthless, and yet too important to be left to mere parents. This benefits no one, except employers who no longer have the hassle of negotiating flexibility. It certainly doesn't benefit children or families.

The result is that we all feel confused and a little resentful. Working women will label stay at home mothers as ‘lazy’ or ‘lucky’, and stay at home mothers will accuse working mothers of being ‘selfish’. Both sides feel guilt and resentment over the choices they feel they should have had but didn't - the nagging doubt that we should be providing more, either emotionally or financially. Round and round we go, constantly striving to do better and tying ourselves up in knots.

There are simple, albeit naive, solutions. Cheaper housing and childcare would make staying at home or working a genuine choice rather than a necessity, as would a working culture that is not defined by the hours you work but by the quality of the work that you do - enabling mothers and fathers to do their bit at home and away.

Maybe this is feminism's next task: to redefine how society views the role of caring, and to challenge the notion that ‘progress’ is always moving in the same direction. A stage on from 'women competing in a man's world' would be to elevate caring to a level at which it can also be seen as successful - equal to the providing bit. Then we could, perhaps, put down our defensiveness, and acknowledge that we're all just doing our best with the circumstances we have - and that, most of the time, that's good enough.

We may never see the day when all we're competing over is who raises the most emotionally stable and contented children - but it's a nice thought.

OP posts:
TeamWill · 02/03/2014 20:20

Its the norm amongst professionals that I know. Mind you we are getting on a bit, so well established careers.
Plenty of dads at the school gate here.

Chunderella · 02/03/2014 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TeamWill · 02/03/2014 20:32

Agree Chunder ( fab name)
I spend less on commuting and parking so does DH plus we knew that we will never have a problem with sick children, school performances etc

morethanpotatoprints · 02/03/2014 21:32

Laura

I'm not sure how you get the opinion that sahps need to grow a thicker skin, rather a generalisation and I'd like to know what you base this on.
I'm sure you could come up with a list, I'm also sure there would be many the same things that are on a sahps list.
It isn't a competition to me, I don't have to justify my actions with lists I know our choices as parents are the best for our children as I'm sure you believe your choices are, otherwise we'd be doing different, surely.

TeamWill

I think you make a valid point there tbh, there are probably a lot of men who would like more time with their children.
There are probably those who don't though. I know we are all supposed to be sharing everything 50/50 but I'm sure in pushing fathers into being something they aren't isn't the way forward.
This isn't for me but I know some women who martyr themselves, do everything and don't want their dh too involved and this is fine with the dh as he is happy not being too involved.
If people discussed this before having dc I think marriages in some cases would last much longer and there would be fewer divorces.
I couldn't have imagined my dh doing 50/50 of everything when our dc were little, I wasn't a martyr though Grin

TeamWill · 02/03/2014 21:48

I did 100% of the pregnancy, birthand breastfeeding because men haven't evolved that far yet Grin
He did his fair share of bum wiping, nose wiping, singing, walks in the park and bloody loved it!

Agree that not all men do and neither do all women - not much point in forcing either group to do it in that case but it is women who bear the brunt of the pointy fingers not men.

morethanpotatoprints · 02/03/2014 22:17

TeamWill

I agree and unfortunately it seems to be the women doing the pointy fingers.
I know a lot of it is about people justifying their choice, but if women accepted that there is no ideal and we can do what we want now, there should be no reason for this.

My dh did do his share when dc were little but I did the lions share as he worked long hours and was away a lot. Now the dc are older and his work pattern has changed he probably does more housework than I do, his standards are higher than mine too. We only have 1dc who needs care now as others are a lot older and hardly here.

I think when dc are little and it is hard work some couples are unable to see the bigger picture and how their relationship and family dynamic changes over the years.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 03/03/2014 07:56

I agree and unfortunately it seems to be the women doing the pointy fingers.

but that is because the vast majority of men don't do the majority of childcare so they don't really care about the details.

whether women work or not, they still do more of the work involving family and home.

frumpypigskin · 03/03/2014 12:21

I know the thread has moved on but I just want to pick up on the point that staying at home is a privilege. It is not. It is a choice. Just as it is a choice to stay at work and pay childcare costs.

I could have stayed in work but I wanted to be the one to bring up my children. We made changes to our lifestyle to make this possible. The likelihood of me getting a job at the same level again is small because of this career break, but it is a choice I have made because I believe it is the right thing to do for my children.

I think parents should be able to make this choice without it being looked at as the 'easy' option and I think it's crazy that some people think it's a privilege to stay at home to look after your children.

TheHoneyBadger · 03/03/2014 13:07

the ability to make that choice is a privilege. it is not available for example to single mothers or mothers whose partners are unwilling to be the sole breadwinner or for couples who simply cannot afford it.

if minimum wage is about £200 a week and housing, heating and food costs are as they are then no a minimum wage family cannot afford to live on one salary.

that is why i say it is a privilege. having a privilege doesn't make you a bad person, it isn't an insult, it isn't saying your life is easy or idyllic it is simply pointing out that your choice is not available to everyone. there is bugger all wrong with counting ones blessings - it's not a competition to see who has it hardest and there are always people worse off than us.

i don't see why people are so defensive about the word if they sit back and think about it. you have 'rights' and 'privileges' this society deems staying at home with your child past school age not to be a right and therefore it is not accessible to everyone but only those who are in a position to be able to make that choice. it is simply fact that not everyone can make that choice and avoid their children being homeless and starving.

Newpencilcase · 03/03/2014 13:19

Goodness this thread has moved fast.

I just wanted to reiterate badger's point about privilege.

I tried to be very careful to not portray staying at home as a privilege, but I stand by the fact that complete freedom of choice is.

There was a time when privilege meant something to be grateful for, not a stick to beat each other with.

wordfactory · 03/03/2014 14:15

But proper meaningful choice is a privilege, surely?

I could have been a SAHM as DH earns a fortune. I could have worked outside the home because we could have got ourselves a fabulous nanny and there still be plenty of money left over. I could have gone part time - my boss certtasinly offered that.

In the end I worked from home.

I cannot see how this embarrassment of choice can be seen as anything other than a privilege...

TheHoneyBadger · 03/03/2014 14:33

it is a privilege. i'm not using it as a stick i'm pointing out the obvious that 'choice' is a false notion if you don't acknowledge that their are conditions to choices, some of those conditions are not available to everyone, ergo the ability to make the choice is a privilege based on the conditions in your life.

likewise the ability to choose to work full time is a privilege given some people can't find a job or have health conditions that make it out of their reach or have children or partners with care needs that they cannot outsource etc.

choices are not made in vacuums. they are made within the confines of what is possible for you and those confines are wider for some than others.

TheHoneyBadger · 03/03/2014 14:35

and so of course many people are ambivalent to women's concerns about their 'choice' to stay at home or go to work because i suppose if you don't have any bloody choice in the matter listening to people pontificate about how their choice should be valued and how awful it is that their choice is judged or not respected might just be a tad irksome when you're thinking christ it would be nice to have a choice to navel gaze over.

TheHoneyBadger · 03/03/2014 14:38

i suspect it this kind of discussion also that ends up non white middle class married women from feminism because it seems so.... removed from the reality of the issues most people are dealing with. it's like hearing the politicians moaning about how their subsidised three course dinners aren't as good as they used to be. the people queuing at the food bank next door probably feel quite 'ambivalent' about them and their troubles and whether they feel the caterers are valuing them quite enough.

TheHoneyBadger · 03/03/2014 14:39

gosh so many words missing sorry. 'i suspect it is this kind of discussion that ends up alienating non white-middle class-married women....

morethanpotatoprints · 03/03/2014 14:40

I know that society sees staying at home with your kids as a privilege, but it doesn't mean that everyone feels like this.
Personally I think its a right, if a parent doesn't have this right then there is a lot wrong with society.
It is a choice that should be available to all, it is a right.
Some people choose not to exercise that right and there's nothing wrong with this.
But whilst we call it a privilege we are once again saying this isn't as legitimate as working.

wordfactory · 03/03/2014 14:47

Just because it's a privilege doesn't mean it's not legitimate.

Many things are a privilege...I think it's a privilege to earn my keep through writing. That's not a choice many can make. It's hardly a right.

Similarly DH earns a bomb in the city. Surely that's a privilege? How many can realistically hope to earn anywhere near what he does? It certainly isn't a right.

And when ot comes to parenting, I think we need to think in terms of personal responsibilities to our DC, not rights. It's our responsibility to provide for them, not the state's, except where we can't. We don't have a right to financial provision!

Bonsoir · 03/03/2014 14:54

wordfactory - while I understand your sentiments entirely, the waters do get muddied somewhat when taxation and state provision of services come into play. The issue is not as black-and-white as your post might suggest.

maggiemight · 03/03/2014 15:04

It would be interesting to come back to this thread in 10/ 15 years time to see if all the SAHMs still believed they made the right choice - all this doing what is best for my DCs is a bit tedious.

Perhaps they will still be involving themselves in their DCs lives, perhaps they will be just waiting to take over the DGM role.

But your opinions change over time, or certainly mine have.

LauraBridges · 03/03/2014 15:06

No one has to work in the UK. We have a welfare state. If people think children do best with both parents with them 24/7 there is nothing to stop both parents giving up work. The state provides. I don't agree with that but that's the country in which we live.

It means I suppose that UK benefits claimants are in a sense privileged as they are paid to be at home with children amd are housed and paid for by "hard working tax payers" (many of whom are other single mothers working full time) and they are much more privileged than say those without jobs across much of the globe. In that sense every parent who works in the UK is choosing not to stay home and putting filthy lucre before their love of their children (if you take that stance - i don't).

TheHoneyBadger · 03/03/2014 15:40

morethan in case it wasn't clear i wasn't actually talking about whether it should be a right. i was talking about the fact that in our society is is not a right. as in just stating the facts of what the state of play is in the UK.

laura the state does not provide. i am a single parent. if i gave up my job tomorrow through choice i would not be provided for. even if i was made redundant if i hadn't found more work pretty sharpish the state can send me on workfare an hours distance away despite the fact i have a small child.

do we really think there are couples where both choose not to work and the state is still just paying everything and leaving them to it? i can't see how that could be happening now with all the changes. you get hounded to death even as a disabled single parent so i can't see couples who just choose to sit on their arse get supported do they?

Chunderella · 03/03/2014 16:17

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

morethanpotatoprints · 03/03/2014 17:28

TheHoneyBadger

You were clear I understood what you were saying.
I just can't stand that a lot of society think it shouldn't be a right. I know you weren't saying this Smile

Laura
I know it has been like this in the past, but no more. Parents have to work now or lose benefit.
The tax credit system hasn't completely changed to UC yet but when it does only the rich or those with small out goings will be able to afford a sahp.
My family will no longer receive tax credits whilst I'm a sahm so it will be tighten our belts and stay as we are or send dd to school and me go out to work.
I'm not complaining as there are plenty worse of than us.

Chunderella · 03/03/2014 17:53

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

morethanpotatoprints · 03/03/2014 18:00

Chunderella

I may be all right for a while then Grin
We live in one of the areas to trial but I don't know much about it as never claimed job seekers, unemployment benefits, which of course were the first to be switched. I do know they had lots of trouble with the system and they didn't start on time as my friend worked with the new system and she said it was a nightmare.